Feeling battered and bruised - advice on spinning!

Pale rider, actually lunging a horse which is already fit can just take the edge off it and break the cycle of behaviour, hence why you see a lot of horses ridden by pro's eventing (who on iousky don't need them "softening") being lunged, as it just takes the edge off them and gets them straight into a frame of mind to work when sat on without arguing. Quite often, a problem like this is resolved just by a change in management.
 
Slightly off topic, but with regards to the lunging making them 'fitter and faster' it depends on how you lunge them. If you chuck them on the lunge and get them bombing round for 20mins then sure. However with the new boy atm I pop him on the lunge for about 10 minutes before I ride just doing loads of walk-trot-walk-halt transitions to get him focused on me and not the million and one things that he could think to spook at! Means when I get on he's ready to listen and I can immediately get him working. Just a thought anyway :)
 
KatB this horse has an emotional problem, which lunging won't help. I agree that some have to move their feet to get their head right. This needs more than movement alone.

Thank you. This is what I was wondering. I am not a novice, but not a pro. I've evented and sj'd in the past to a reasonable level. I'm not making any claims about my riding, but I can't seem to stay on when this horse spins - he is quick and sharp and fast.

The point is I dont know when he is going to spin. 9 times out of 10 he is fine, and then suddenly he panics over nothing and off he goes. I thought we had overcome it as lately he's been fine when he's out and getting good scores and placings.

Yes, I could try harder to stay on and that got to be my aim. But I'm thinking I need to dig deeper and get to the root cause of why he does it and try to sort it. My feeling is its some sort of emotional issue, but can this be sorted? And how?
 
My old boy used to do this, no warning drop shoulder, 180 degree spin and ****** off given half a chance and being 17.2 worth of warmblood it was no laughing matter!! Although in the 3yrs I had him he never had me off ( not in that way anyway!) My instructor use to say it was because I had a strong/secure seat and lower leg probably thanks to having a pony as a teenager that did the same thing!!

Perhaps some lunge lessons on another safe/sensible horse to work on your own seat would help your stickablity till you sort the reason why he does it.

In the mean time hope you heal soon. :)
 
There is probably a number of things which cause this behavior, basically he's of the opinion that he needs to make a decision, because he has no confidence in you at that moment in time. Vallin makes a good point by adding value to lunging, ie, transitions, changes in direction, even backing up helps.
You need to build the horses confidence in you so that it overrides the horses need to make his own decision and spin. He needs to be looking to you for the decision.

Not very well written I'm afraid, but hope it gives you some ideas. In the meantime, stay safe.
 
OP, it is very likely that your fear of your horse spinning in certain situations is actually causing it to occur. If the rider's confidence/commitment is shaky at all, the horse will feel it and will react.

I would longrein a horse like yours, but first I would teach him in-hand to yield to the rein so that he learned to yield his head round to both sides until his muzzle could reach his girth. This should not be an exercise in pulling the head round; rather a gradual improvement on each try, so that the horse willingly yields when he is signalled by the rein.

Once the horse has learned to yield correctly to the rein, you can mount and continue these exercises from the saddle. You can then progress to signalling the horse with one rein then, as he responds, blocking him with the other rein, momentarily to begin with, so that you begin to achieve control of his head by more subtle use of the rein. As he accepts the block, you can keep it there for longer periods, without pulling, so that the horse learns that all he has to do to get out of the situation is yield to the rein, which he will do quickly as you've already taught him how.

When the horse learns that he can be blocked and asked to yield the other way at any given time, you have effectively taught him to yield to the outside rein. This is important when longreining, as it is the means by which the handler deters the horse from spinning in the longreins.

Establishing this concept in the horse's mind will change his attitude toward taking control and spinning. This will increase your confidence.
 
Pale Rider, the comment about the confidence/decision making is well made, and ties in with other advice to keep him off the leg and focussed on his task.

Your comment on the OP being "over-horsed" however, despite never having seen her and her horse together, seems unnecessarily harsh. You are not in a position to make such an assessment, from an internet forum post. At most, you can have a suspicion!

If the OP's horse is anything like mine, and her description suggests to me that it may be, then she really at times has no warning that something is about to happen. Those are the falling-off circumstances in my case (and even then I tend to stay on).

I think your point about the horse feeling the need to take action is possibly accurate in my case; there have been many times (though they've thankfully become few and far between) when I feel as though he has become unaware that there is someone on his back. I can't explain it differently than that, and it's not a feeling I've generally had off other horses. In those circumstances, riding forward confidently definitely helps, and if he spins, I'm prepared and can cope easily. The problem times are when there is no warning: we're trotting along calmly, and suddenly, we're going the other way, at speed. Lest you think this is just a novicey numpty talking, this has been observed by instructors, dressage judges, and other experienced onlookers, and they agree with my assessment. I sympathise with the OP, because I've had plenty of people say, "What's the big deal? He's such a sweet, quiet, cute pony!"---until they witness one of these episodes. He has improved vastly, and I'm going to keep working on him, but I don't think he'll ever be 100% normal. There is a deep-seated inner worry and mistrust of people, that I'm not sure will ever be completely shifted. His expression in the middle picture is about 3 months after I got him; the flanking pics are from the past summer.
 
My old horse used to get me with this, usually in the spring time when feeling rather well. He always did it one way, to the right which apparently meant he loaded his right leg heavier. Whenever I found myself in situations where this might happen I always rode him between hand and leg and also found riding shoulder fore in warm ups really helped too. Good luck!
 
Pale Rider, the comment about the confidence/decision making is well made, and ties in with other advice to keep him off the leg and focussed on his task.

Your comment on the OP being "over-horsed" however, despite never having seen her and her horse together, seems unnecessarily harsh. You are not in a position to make such an assessment, from an internet forum post. At most, you can have a suspicion!

If the OP's horse is anything like mine, and her description suggests to me that it may be, then she really at times has no warning that something is about to happen. Those are the falling-off circumstances in my case (and even then I tend to stay on).

I think your point about the horse feeling the need to take action is possibly accurate in my case; there have been many times (though they've thankfully become few and far between) when I feel as though he has become unaware that there is someone on his back. I can't explain it differently than that, and it's not a feeling I've generally had off other horses. In those circumstances, riding forward confidently definitely helps, and if he spins, I'm prepared and can cope easily. The problem times are when there is no warning: we're trotting along calmly, and suddenly, we're going the other way, at speed. Lest you think this is just a novicey numpty talking, this has been observed by instructors, dressage judges, and other experienced onlookers, and they agree with my assessment. I sympathise with the OP, because I've had plenty of people say, "What's the big deal? He's such a sweet, quiet, cute pony!"---until they witness one of these episodes. He has improved vastly, and I'm going to keep working on him, but I don't think he'll ever be 100% normal. There is a deep-seated inner worry and mistrust of people, that I'm not sure will ever be completely shifted. His expression in the middle picture is about 3 months after I got him; the flanking pics are from the past summer.

This is EXACTLY it. No warning - at least that I can feel and no-one believes me unless they witness it as he is such a sweet horse and we are doing so well together. I'm not worried about the comment I may be over-horsed, as in these situations I realise that I probably am, in the sense that I can't seem to do anything about it when it happens. But as I say, 99% of the time we get on well together and seem a good match. I think your comment about there being a deep seated inner worry is spot on, but somehow I need to get this sorted.

My horse was Irish-bred to show jump, and has good bloodlines. But I bought him from an English dealer and have since discovered he has been passed around from dealer to dealer. He was only 6 when I bought him, so I would guess that this quirkiness, and the fact he isn't very bold over jumps, has had something to do with the fact he's been passed around. I have been doing just dressage with him, and he seems happy and confident doing this, enjoying his work and he is bright enough to pick thing up really quickly.

I don't want to give up on him as my fear is that he'll just be passed on again, but on the other hand I don't want to put myself in any more danger. Part of the reason for my post was to help me think through the options I have open to me - and all the replies have been really helpful:)
 
You know, no warning could be the warning.

A racehorse called Townsender had a massive reaction, but the signs were there beforehand, even though most people said it was out of the blue.

Sometimes a calmness and introspection comes before the storm.
 
lots of good suggestions already, but i would put 'take him to Jason Webb' top of the list, by a long way.
I have a bit of a spinner. thanks to very sticky-bum breeches, and a bit of luck, she hasn't unshipped me yet. I had gotten her over it (lots of patience, going same routes repeatedly etc etc), although to be fair she usually had a reason, such as a duck flying up, or seeing a lump of mud... it wasn't always totally out of the blue although it was always pretty dramatic. We are back to square one as she's had to have lots of time off and is now compromised, but I am going to start again, and rebuild her confidence slowly as before.
The advice to always have him really in front of the leg, very firm in both hands etc... hmm. i can see the reasoning but i think this is trying to cope with the symptom rather than addressing the cause. Ideally you want a horse who can be lobbed along in relaxation and won't react like that, because you can bet that one day the rider won't be in exactly the right position etc, you cannot stay on high alert every second! so, i'd want to get to the bottom of WHY he has such a heightened flight reflex, and working to build his confidence, convince him to accept you as his leader, so that even if he's worried he knows it's safe to stop and look, breathe and think, not spin and run. hope that makes sense. I'd look at physical issues too, ime compromised horses are often flightier, I think because they know they might need the head start!
 
lots of good suggestions already, but i would put 'take him to Jason Webb' top of the list, by a long way.
I have a bit of a spinner. thanks to very sticky-bum breeches, and a bit of luck, she hasn't unshipped me yet. I had gotten her over it (lots of patience, going same routes repeatedly etc etc), although to be fair she usually had a reason, such as a duck flying up, or seeing a lump of mud... it wasn't always totally out of the blue although it was always pretty dramatic. We are back to square one as she's had to have lots of time off and is now compromised, but I am going to start again, and rebuild her confidence slowly as before.
The advice to always have him really in front of the leg, very firm in both hands etc... hmm. i can see the reasoning but i think this is trying to cope with the symptom rather than addressing the cause. Ideally you want a horse who can be lobbed along in relaxation and won't react like that, because you can bet that one day the rider won't be in exactly the right position etc, you cannot stay on high alert every second! so, i'd want to get to the bottom of WHY he has such a heightened flight reflex, and working to build his confidence, convince him to accept you as his leader, so that even if he's worried he knows it's safe to stop and look, breathe and think, not spin and run. hope that makes sense. I'd look at physical issues too, ime compromised horses are often flightier, I think because they know they might need the head start!

Thanks Kerilli. I am going to have a chat with Jason Webb tomorrow as someone else told me he completely cured a friend's horse that habitually bolted. My feeling is also that I need to understand why he is doing it and to try to change that response.

The fact I fall off is an unfortunate side effect, but not the reason he does it - the minute he does spin - I honestly feel that nothing could stop him as that flight instinct has kicked in.

I feel like a numpty for not anticipating it, but you are right, you cant be on high alert the whole time!
 
I have a spinner as well and if there is a sign before he does it no one has managed to notice it!! I have had two professionals (both of whom I had warned about his spins coming out of the blue) come back and say that they had not believed me until he did it and caught them completely unawares!

The good news is that he has grown out of it so it is possible to build a horse's confidence so that they grow out of it, although I appreciate it's very difficult to keep re-mounting when the behaviour is so dangerous. I put R on a calcium/magnesium calmer and that makes a huge difference to his responses and although he works a lot long and low he is never allowed to go on the buckle with no contact. In his case he tends to be more worried and take over decision making when he is on the buckle, but feels more relaxed when the rein maintains a contact and my lower leg is on.
 
I have a spinner as well and if there is a sign before he does it no one has managed to notice it!! I have had two professionals (both of whom I had warned about his spins coming out of the blue) come back and say that they had not believed me until he did it and caught them completely unawares!

The good news is that he has grown out of it so it is possible to build a horse's confidence so that they grow out of it, although I appreciate it's very difficult to keep re-mounting when the behaviour is so dangerous. I put R on a calcium/magnesium calmer and that makes a huge difference to his responses and although he works a lot long and low he is never allowed to go on the buckle with no contact. In his case he tends to be more worried and take over decision making when he is on the buckle, but feels more relaxed when the rein maintains a contact and my lower leg is on.

Thank you. I'm sorry you have experienced this too, but heartened that someone else understands that sometimes there is no warning! Someone else has also mentioned magnesium so I'm going to get some tomorrow as that is certainly worth a try. I don't tend to ride him on the buckle ever, because of the spinning, but I definately have times when I'm not always riding him into a contact - like on a hack, or at the beginning of a warm-up and he is just walking, so I need to address this.:)
 
To comfort you a little: by this point, I can often ride on the buckle by now. Things do get better! :)

Magnesium will work only if there is a magnesium deficieny to begin with. A magnesium deficiency is apparently quite common in the UK, judging by how many people find such calmers helpful. But it might be worth getting a forage analysis done to see if there are any other imbalances, or if that's not practical, to feed a really good mineral supplement. The specialist ones from companies such as ForagePlus tend to contain higher levels of magnesium than the calmers do.
 
Thanks Kerilli. I am going to have a chat with Jason Webb tomorrow as someone else told me he completely cured a friend's horse that habitually bolted. My feeling is also that I need to understand why he is doing it and to try to change that response.

The fact I fall off is an unfortunate side effect, but not the reason he does it - the minute he does spin - I honestly feel that nothing could stop him as that flight instinct has kicked in.

I feel like a numpty for not anticipating it, but you are right, you cant be on high alert the whole time!

I have never heard a bad word about Jason Webb, which puts him in a pretty unique place in the horse world imho, so I'm sure he'll be able to help.
Just out of interest, when your lad spins and drops you, what does he do then? Is he still concerned about whatever made him spin? Does he run off, or keep staring in the direction of the Thing, or is he instantly concerned about you (I have had horses absolutely shocked at dropping me, stare down in total bewilderment, instantly oblivious to any imagined extra danger). I've also had ones which were very "I am frightened and WE are getting out of here", and if I tried to make them stand and face their fear (in one particular case, cattle) the attitude changed instantly to "I am going to buck you off because now YOU are my problem, and then I'm getting out of here..."

Btw, I really really cannot rate Kerrits sticky-bums highly enough. I rode out this afternoon after reading this post, wearing the above, their Sit Tight Supremes, full seat, very warm, very comfy, in my suede-seated Ideal dressage saddle. Trust me, the combination is like mega-velcro. Halfway through the hack I turned for home on the road, had taken one step of turn when two ducks exploded up out of the dyke about 10' in front of us, causing the mare to spin very violently. I am not kidding, I didn't move an inch in the saddle. They have kept me on before when I swear I was 2' out to the side of the horse as it spun, you know that "oh no I'm going" thought that goes through your mind, and then "oh, hold on, I'm still there". I hope Jason can sort your lad, but I would get some of these anyway, just in case!
 
I dont often give advice on riding as I dont feel really qualified enoiugh to do so, but my cob used to do this. With him, it was a confidence issue. He had been a RC and an RDA horse for a few years and was a bit institionalised. I bought him as a bombproof first horse - he wasnt. He was fine hacking in company, but on his own he would often spin and bolt back to the yard. This couipled with an inexperienced owner was frightening.

I had a lot of advice and help and basically with him it was down to lack of confidence - him! After 18 momths of ownership I managed an hours hack alone without any spinning.

We moved yards after I had owned him for 2 years and it started again if I hacked somewhere different on my own. Now I am lucky, he gives me a warning. He will plant his feet, turn his head to the right and look at me, as if to say, mum I am not happy. I have learned now to give him some very strong aids to go forward and also to pull hard on the left rein. He has learned now to trust me. I cant say he has ever unseated me doing this, but I have had some scary experiences.

I do hope you resolve it, it is scarey, but I was told it was fixable, and I managed it, but with a lot of help and a lot of confidence building, plus building up our partnership. He is now 20 and stil have a bit of a look, but I know the signs now and to be fair, it hasnt happened for quie a while. Keep your chin up, you will be fine eventually, and hope the bruises heal soon.
 
I cannot recommend Jason Webb enough. My lad has just come back after spending a month with him.
It was the best money I have ever spent. Jason & Tom worked wonders on my TB and also took so much time to work with me & my horse together.

You should go to one of his demonstration mornings - it is amazing what he can achieve. Jason is quite possibly the most unflappable, chilled, coolest chap I think I have ever met.
 
I have never heard a bad word about Jason Webb, which puts him in a pretty unique place in the horse world imho, so I'm sure he'll be able to help.
Just out of interest, when your lad spins and drops you, what does he do then? Is he still concerned about whatever made him spin? Does he run off, or keep staring in the direction of the Thing, or is he instantly concerned about you (I have had horses absolutely shocked at dropping me, stare down in total bewilderment, instantly oblivious to any imagined extra danger). I've also had ones which were very "I am frightened and WE are getting out of here", and if I tried to make them stand and face their fear (in one particular case, cattle) the attitude changed instantly to "I am going to buck you off because now YOU are my problem, and then I'm getting out of here..."

Btw, I really really cannot rate Kerrits sticky-bums highly enough. I rode out this afternoon after reading this post, wearing the above, their Sit Tight Supremes, full seat, very warm, very comfy, in my suede-seated Ideal dressage saddle. Trust me, the combination is like mega-velcro. Halfway through the hack I turned for home on the road, had taken one step of turn when two ducks exploded up out of the dyke about 10' in front of us, causing the mare to spin very violently. I am not kidding, I didn't move an inch in the saddle. They have kept me on before when I swear I was 2' out to the side of the horse as it spun, you know that "oh no I'm going" thought that goes through your mind, and then "oh, hold on, I'm still there". I hope Jason can sort your lad, but I would get some of these anyway, just in case!

I think Jason Webb is a must! i love the idea of sticky-bums too.

When the boy spins and gets me off, he hardly takes another step. He seems completely unconcerned with whatever it was that spooked him and in total shock that I'm now lying on the ground. The times that I have caught a spin and either turned him back round or held him straight, he wobbles, but stays facing his fear, he certainly doesn't turn me into the problem. Which all makes me think that he can't help himself when it happens, he just loses his head abit. :rolleyes:
 
I cannot recommend Jason Webb enough. My lad has just come back after spending a month with him.
It was the best money I have ever spent. Jason & Tom worked wonders on my TB and also took so much time to work with me & my horse together.

You should go to one of his demonstration mornings - it is amazing what he can achieve. Jason is quite possibly the most unflappable, chilled, coolest chap I think I have ever met.

Always Henesy - does it take a month to sort out, or does it depend on the issue? Would you mind giving me an idea of how much it costs (PM me if preferred). I'd be grateful to have an idea. Presumably something like this you can't sort out by attending his clinics?

By the way - I love your springer, I've got one just like that. They're gorgeous:)
 
Always Henesy - does it take a month to sort out, or does it depend on the issue? Would you mind giving me an idea of how much it costs (PM me if preferred). I'd be grateful to have an idea. Presumably something like this you can't sort out by attending his clinics?

By the way - I love your springer, I've got one just like that. They're gorgeous:)

I have PM'ed you :)

Thank you for the compliment on my Springer. He is quite simply my treasure. I have 3 dogs - but he is a Mummy's boy:D
 
I have a spooky sharp youngster, well now rising 6 ! who does this, i must have fallen off 40 times last year, sudden spook, drop shoulder and spin. I have found full seat breeches, always riding between hand and leg and always being alert to anything happening, eg lump of mud, pidgeon, wren etc ! has helped enormously. its horribly frustrating when you are on the deck again but Im sure if you keep riding forward you will get there. jason webb is quite local to me, have heard mainly good some not so good, last i heard £260.00 a week for backing, so would be around this price I would guess.
 
Spinning is "just" a behaviour - like bucking or rearing or snorting, for that matter - which a horse uses to release tension. So there isn't a "one size fits all" cure, it is always a matter of learning how to deal with/channel the behaviour and also finding ways to help the horse dial down the tension that results in it in the first place.

I had one horse that "spun for fun". He did it most often in situations where he was fresh or excited, or if he was anxious about something. He could and would spin both ways and at "nothing" - we rode in doors all winter and by February I'd be lucky to make it once around the school without a spin until he'd worked for a bit. He was also not above adding a huge buck on the end of it, which was quite effective. :D He did not give you warning, as such, but felt like any other fresh horse. Sometimes he would stick his tail up before he went - he galloped like that, too - but usually it just happened.

My very experienced coach set out to "fix" him one day on a hack and it did not go well . . .the horse must have spun about a hundred times down the lane from the farm! I know that someone previously had tried to fix it with the stick and that had, in fact, made it worse, so in that case his tension was ramped up by the attitude and every time he was "disciplined" for it, he did it again. It was a bit grim but kind of funny and when my coach returned he literally never mentioned it again.:) It was not "fixable", we just had to manage it. He got better as he got older but the first few hacks in spring stayed exciting until he was in his dotage. He was like Spookypony's horse, in that people brushed it off until they saw him do it! I found out later everyone thought I was mad for riding him (it wasn't his only party trick) but it must have looked worse than it felt.

That horse was very unusual, though. Most spinners I've met do it out of anxiety and usually in concert with an issue in their way of going that might not seem like much of a problem the rest of the time.

One I had did it because he hurt. He was far more likely to do it when asked to work a particular way and in his case, sorting out his physical issues helped a lot. He was also a very nervy, sharp horse in general, so management, again, played a big role, especially attention to his diet and his care routine. Having learned from that one, with similar mare I had to train, we did a bute trial on her and the spinning stopped, so the owner knew to look further. In these cases though, the spinning was varied and it wasn't really "out of the blue" just very quick and preceded only by a moment of "ouch" tension.

Far more common is horses that have a perfectly understandable anxiety - collecting rings, say, or hacking alone - and is predisposed to spin, because of way of going or physical factors, or the way it's being ridden. The spin is effect the "open door" and when the tension gets too much to bear, the horse takes it. This sounds more like your horse, OP.

One I had to ride recently was far more typical than the one I mentioned above. He generally went a bit "over his shoulder" on the flat, with a kink and a tenancy to take one rein more strongly, although he was going out and doing tests and doing well. He originally hacked fine but then, after a "bad" experience (it wasn't particularly dramatic, but horses don't always see things the same way we do when it comes to anxiety, what with being overgrown rabbits and all), started to spin randomly out hacking and occasionally in the school. He was awfully quick with it! Unfortunately the rider did the "instructed" thing and shortened her reins but also shortened his neck, making him more uncomfortable and exacerbating the "kink" in his body that made a spin (to the left in his case) seem like the default way to go. The "fix" was two fold, to improve his way of going, most notably in straightness and stretch to the hand, and then to ride him in this more "relaxed but controlled" way in the stressful situations to both give him confidence, and if needed, discipline him sooner, when he started his tiny lean, rather than waiting until he's already spun. The owner continued to ride him in the school while I worked with him, then we did a gradual switch over, although I still ride him fairly regularly and will likely continue to do so in "scary" situations, followed up by the owner doing the same activities and making the same corrections, just hopefully on a slightly less stressed horse!

This horse does give a "warning" but that warning is his general way of going, so not necessarily easily recognisable. He is a very chilled horse generally, so does not give obvious signs of tension, he's just a little bit primed all the time and a small start at something like a squirrel in a hedge can easily be a quick trigger. Tbf, every time he's been "caught" he's done it less enthusiastically the next time and in fact has not spun for some weeks now. (Watch, now I've cursed it . . . )

I did have one that never even showed a tendency until we took him schooling in a place with mirrors! He initially spun EVERY time he turned a corner and faced an image of himself, even down the end of the school, although he was fine with other horses working around him. Proper sit down, turn around, panicky spins. It took the better part of an hour before he could cope and he stayed wary but again, never showed it in any other situation, which is quite unusual.

Triggers can be unexpected sometimes. I would also say your horse undoubtedly has one, but it may be very small and, from a human perspective, not very sensible. In some ways it doesn't matter what sets him off if it's something you meet in places like collecting rings, you have to teach him to deal with it.

It is quite possible that a trainer will be able to fix him for you, by changing his patterns of movement and teaching him to deal with more situations that make him tense. This would probably be money well spent. Make sure they teach YOU how to deal with it, too, though, both so you can keep doing the homework and in case you see glimpses of a relapse.

Don't panic. :) Get him assessed by someone with this area of speciality, get their advice on how to sort it and give it a bit of time.
 
Spinning is "just" a behaviour - like bucking or rearing or snorting, for that matter - which a horse uses to release tension. So there isn't a "one size fits all" cure, it is always a matter of learning how to deal with/channel the behaviour and also finding ways to help the horse dial down the tension that results in it in the first place.

I had one horse that "spun for fun". He did it most often in situations where he was fresh or excited, or if he was anxious about something. He could and would spin both ways and at "nothing" - we rode in doors all winter and by February I'd be lucky to make it once around the school without a spin until he'd worked for a bit. He was also not above adding a huge buck on the end of it, which was quite effective. :D He did not give you warning, as such, but felt like any other fresh horse. Sometimes he would stick his tail up before he went - he galloped like that, too - but usually it just happened.

My very experienced coach set out to "fix" him one day on a hack and it did not go well . . .the horse must have spun about a hundred times down the lane from the farm! I know that someone previously had tried to fix it with the stick and that had, in fact, made it worse, so in that case his tension was ramped up by the attitude and every time he was "disciplined" for it, he did it again. It was a bit grim but kind of funny and when my coach returned he literally never mentioned it again.:) It was not "fixable", we just had to manage it. He got better as he got older but the first few hacks in spring stayed exciting until he was in his dotage. He was like Spookypony's horse, in that people brushed it off until they saw him do it! I found out later everyone thought I was mad for riding him (it wasn't his only party trick) but it must have looked worse than it felt.

That horse was very unusual, though. Most spinners I've met do it out of anxiety and usually in concert with an issue in their way of going that might not seem like much of a problem the rest of the time.

One I had did it because he hurt. He was far more likely to do it when asked to work a particular way and in his case, sorting out his physical issues helped a lot. He was also a very nervy, sharp horse in general, so management, again, played a big role, especially attention to his diet and his care routine. Having learned from that one, with similar mare I had to train, we did a bute trial on her and the spinning stopped, so the owner knew to look further. In these cases though, the spinning was varied and it wasn't really "out of the blue" just very quick and preceded only by a moment of "ouch" tension.

Far more common is horses that have a perfectly understandable anxiety - collecting rings, say, or hacking alone - and is predisposed to spin, because of way of going or physical factors, or the way it's being ridden. The spin is effect the "open door" and when the tension gets too much to bear, the horse takes it. This sounds more like your horse, OP.

One I had to ride recently was far more typical than the one I mentioned above. He generally went a bit "over his shoulder" on the flat, with a kink and a tenancy to take one rein more strongly, although he was going out and doing tests and doing well. He originally hacked fine but then, after a "bad" experience (it wasn't particularly dramatic, but horses don't always see things the same way we do when it comes to anxiety, what with being overgrown rabbits and all), started to spin randomly out hacking and occasionally in the school. He was awfully quick with it! Unfortunately the rider did the "instructed" thing and shortened her reins but also shortened his neck, making him more uncomfortable and exacerbating the "kink" in his body that made a spin (to the left in his case) seem like the default way to go. The "fix" was two fold, to improve his way of going, most notably in straightness and stretch to the hand, and then to ride him in this more "relaxed but controlled" way in the stressful situations to both give him confidence, and if needed, discipline him sooner, when he started his tiny lean, rather than waiting until he's already spun. The owner continued to ride him in the school while I worked with him, then we did a gradual switch over, although I still ride him fairly regularly and will likely continue to do so in "scary" situations, followed up by the owner doing the same activities and making the same corrections, just hopefully on a slightly less stressed horse!

This horse does give a "warning" but that warning is his general way of going, so not necessarily easily recognisable. He is a very chilled horse generally, so does not give obvious signs of tension, he's just a little bit primed all the time and a small start at something like a squirrel in a hedge can easily be a quick trigger. Tbf, every time he's been "caught" he's done it less enthusiastically the next time and in fact has not spun for some weeks now. (Watch, now I've cursed it . . . )

I did have one that never even showed a tendency until we took him schooling in a place with mirrors! He initially spun EVERY time he turned a corner and faced an image of himself, even down the end of the school, although he was fine with other horses working around him. Proper sit down, turn around, panicky spins. It took the better part of an hour before he could cope and he stayed wary but again, never showed it in any other situation, which is quite unusual.

Triggers can be unexpected sometimes. I would also say your horse undoubtedly has one, but it may be very small and, from a human perspective, not very sensible. In some ways it doesn't matter what sets him off if it's something you meet in places like collecting rings, you have to teach him to deal with it.

It is quite possible that a trainer will be able to fix him for you, by changing his patterns of movement and teaching him to deal with more situations that make him tense. This would probably be money well spent. Make sure they teach YOU how to deal with it, too, though, both so you can keep doing the homework and in case you see glimpses of a relapse.

Don't panic. :) Get him assessed by someone with this area of speciality, get their advice on how to sort it and give it a bit of time.

Fantastic post ^^^^
The 2nd to last paragraph is especially relevant. Someone like JW works like this. He also works with you and your horse as a partnership so you are able to help your horse work through the issue.
 
"Far more common is horses that have a perfectly understandable anxiety - collecting rings, say, or hacking alone - and is predisposed to spin, because of way of going or physical factors, or the way it's being ridden. The spin is effect the "open door" and when the tension gets too much to bear, the horse takes it. This sounds more like your horse, OP."

Thank you TarrSteps. A really helpful post. I have certainly never tried to fix this issue by getting cross - he's not a horse you can 'take on' in this way and I genuinely don't think he does is out of naughtiness, or fun, it's an instinctive reaction to something he finds threatening or scary. Horses coming at him in the warm up, fast bicycles coming at him in the road and being asked to move close to a gate, seem to be the key triggers. Having said that, it is by no means a regular thing. When I got him, 18 months ago, he did it far more often, but obviously the instinct is still there and I'm thinking that I need to work on (with some professional help) changing his response to anxiety as when he does it, the consequences for me, are pretty nasty.:)
 
tiggybeans, TarrSteps might not be a million miles from you, I hadn't realised you were down south. If you want someone to come to your yard and help you both through it (as opp to JW who I think has them at his place), she'd be the absolutely perfect person.
I do think your coping mechanism has to have a few aspects, the main one is of course getting to the bottom of why he does it and trying to get his brain to accept that 'look, wait, think' is better than 'eek, spin', but for me as a rider I also prioritise 'if I can stay on this, then I can help the horse deal with it a LOT better', hence my addiction to properly sticky-bum breeches. Also, I'd always wear a good bp on this sort, sorry, I'm sure you're still sore so that's not very tactful, but you don't want your torso ever taking the brunt again. When I'm riding a tricky one my Kan is always on, no question.

The fact that your lad is doing it less than before is hugely encouraging. You WILL get there.
 
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