Feeling guilty

[Clodagh]

Friend asked me about finding a Labrador puppy, back in lock down. First time dog owners but active, sensible people. I explained how much exercise and brain work they needed (wanted a fox red, why does everyone speak of them as though they are a separate breed?). They said eldest son, 23, who plays a lot of sport, wanted to do something with the dog. All good.
Put them in touch with a stud dog owner, for a litter related to one of mine. She’s very easy, active but thick ?. They got a dog.
16 months on… it doesn’t even get what I would call a walk. It’s completely out of control, dog and now human aggressive (even family members). They love it very much. But not enough to walk it or train it.
I feel so incredibly sorry for this dog. They are not the sort of people to take advice. They employed a behaviourist who said to ignore it’s bad behaviour, so they sat and watched it while it destroyed the house. Then the aggression ramped up in the house so they did get another one, who sounds sensible, and said it needed exercise and training. This hasn’t happened. Did I mention they love it very much?
It is a car crash waiting to happen. If anyone goes near the man, even his wife, it goes for them. Whatever will happen if someone gets too close to him in the park?
There’s no solution here, I’m just getting it out. They are going to have him neutered although the vet has said it won’t help.

 

[AmyMay]

Don’t feel guilty. You are not responsible for stupid!!!!

 

[Jenko109]

They were going to get a dog regardless or what you said or recommended.

A sad situation, but not one that you should be feeling guilty about.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I don't know why people do this. Why do people who aren't actually "dog people" get dogs? They should basically be a kind of niche hobby not a ubiquitous acquisition because it is somehow what is expected!

Don't feel guilty. It's all on them.

 

[FestiveG]

People can be so stupid! It really isn't your responsibility, but I do get where you are coming from.

 

[skinnydipper]

Don't feel guilty, Clodagh. As others have said said you are not responsible for the owners' stupidity.

I'm curious as to why they think the dog's balls testes are the cause of his boredom.

ETA. Do they not realise the home remodelling is due to stress?

 

[Moobli]

Poor dog ?. How can you profess to love an animal and then not even provide basic needs like training and exercise. I get why you feel guilty Clodagh, but you aren’t responsible. They said all the right things prior to your advice so there was no knowing they’d do the opposite. Are they good friends? Could you be honest and frank with them about what the dog needs?

 

[Clodagh]

I don't know why people do this. Why do people who aren't actually "dog people" get dogs? They should basically be a kind of niche hobby not a ubiquitous acquisition because it is somehow what is expected!

Don't feel guilty. It's all on them.

I think, partly, they see dogs like mine who are a pleasure to own, obedient, calm, and who enhance our day to day life and want one like that. I really did point out how much effort I put in when they are young.

 

[Moobli]

I don't know why people do this. Why do people who aren't actually "dog people" get dogs? They should basically be a kind of niche hobby not a ubiquitous acquisition because it is somehow what is expected!

Don't feel guilty. It's all on them.

That is so very true! Since the pandemic I think non dog people owning dogs has sky rocketed. As you say, dogs should be a niche hobby rather than a whim or to keep up with the neighbours.

 

[skinnydipper]

I think if they love him as much as they say they do, they should put his needs first and rehome him to someone who can fulfil those needs.

 

[FestiveG]

I think, partly, they see dogs like mine who are a pleasure to own, obedient, calm, and who enhance our day to day life and want one like that. I really did point out how much effort I put in when they are young.

Sister and I were talking about this yesterday. It's the equivalent of "you are so lucky your horse is so steady in traffic".
We watched people not calling their dogs back, letting them race up to ours, barking, while they are on their phone, filming their child on the bike, etc etc. It makes me sad for these dogs.

 

[skinnydipper]

And why do people get working lines and then expect them to be content with a sofa and a quick pootle round the park?

 

[SAujla]

I think, partly, they see dogs like mine who are a pleasure to own, obedient, calm, and who enhance our day to day life and want one like that. I really did point out how much effort I put in when they are young.

Yours are wonderful be around, but its impossible for some to see that it doesn't happen naturally. A bored dog will always entertain itself especially a working breed

 

[stangs]

That is so very true! Since the pandemic I think non dog people owning dogs has sky rocketed. As you say, dogs should be a niche hobby rather than a whim or to keep up with the neighbours.

I blame how society has portrayed dogs as one of the family, not that they're aren't, but in the sense that your stereotypical American family in movies is mother, father, two/three kids, and of course lovable Fido. In the same way that people think of rodents as easy children's pets with minimal care needs, when they're anything but; fish as nice ornamental pieces and not living beings, etc.

We've normalised having dogs for centuries, but the demands of modern day society is such most people just don't have time to care for a dog, nor a job where their dog will get enough exercise/enrichment following them around.

 

[Clodagh]

Don't feel guilty, Clodagh. As others have said said you are not responsible for the owners' stupidity.

I'm curious as to why they think the dog's balls testes are the cause of his boredom.

ETA. Do they not realise the home remodelling is due to stress?

No idea on the balls, and they have been told he is very anxious. I haven’t actually seen him since he was a pup but he is in charge of the household and that must take its toll.

They won’t rehome him, they love him. I imagine he’ll be pts eventually.

 

[Clodagh]

That is so very true! Since the pandemic I think non dog people owning dogs has sky rocketed. As you say, dogs should be a niche hobby rather than a whim or to keep up with the neighbours.

They have talked about getting a dog for years but their last cat just died and she now only works a short week so it was the right time.

 

[FestiveG]

I do think a lot of dogs have suffered from the misunderstanding about "dominance" and how you must not be dominant. The person does have to be in charge, it is far too stressful for most dogs to have to be in charge, especially if that happens when they are essentially babies. Also most people don't understand that you are training the dog all the time, just sometimes you are training the opposite of what you want!

 

[skinnydipper]

No idea on the balls, and they have been told he is very anxious. I haven’t actually seen him since he was a pup but he is in charge of the household and that must take its toll.

They won’t rehome him, they love him. I imagine he’ll be pts eventually.

As you know, Clodagh, I'm not into all that alpha nonsense but somebody has to make the decisions and I figure it might as well be me.

I think dogs are happier with routine and structure, knowing where they stand and what is expected of them.

 

[Moobli]

I blame how society has portrayed dogs as one of the family, not that they're aren't, but in the sense that your stereotypical American family in movies is mother, father, two/three kids, and of course lovable Fido. In the same way that people think of rodents as easy children's pets with minimal care needs, when they're anything but; fish as nice ornamental pieces and not living beings, etc.

We've normalised having dogs for centuries, but the demands of modern day society is such most people just don't have time to care for a dog, nor a job where their dog will get enough exercise/enrichment following them around.

Spot on I’d say.
I have been dog mad since I could remember and was desperate for my own dog. I waited until I was in my 20s to get my first because prior to that I just couldn’t have given a dog the time and commitment it needed due to renting, work hours, social life and a whole host of other reasons. It wouldn’t have been fair. How many people now even consider such things? It’s an “I want, I’ll get” society and then throwaway when it doesn’t work out. Depressing.

 

[Moobli]

They have talked about getting a dog for years but their last cat just died and she now only works a short week so it was the right time.

I was speaking more generally than about your friends in particular but I wonder if they’ve been overwhelmed by how much work and commitment a dog is as opposed to a cat.

 

[AmyMay]

I was speaking more generally than about your friends in particular but I wonder if they’ve been overwhelmed by how much work and commitment a dog is as opposed to a cat.

Which is really sad, because life is so great for all parties when the dog knows what’s expected of them.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I think, partly, they see dogs like mine who are a pleasure to own, obedient, calm, and who enhance our day to day life and want one like that. I really did point out how much effort I put in when they are young.

I think some people genuinely think dogs come with all the 'buttons' pre-installed.

Don't feel guilty - I'm sure if you had any idea of the level of irresponsibility of these people you would have done differently but you weren't to know at the time.

Also what in the what with the behaviourist?!

My first boyfriend's parents had a spaniel and a GSD, they were never taken for walks and were all over the place in the house and frequently bolting out the front door. Constantly being shouted at. One day I suggested we take the dogs out. It was all on lead but we ran about in the park with them for ages. The parents spent the rest of the day going "oh look at them!" as the two dogs were just chilling and content after actually having had some exercise and mental stimulation. Um...yes?! His parents barely worked, there was no excuse of not having time for the dogs. It makes me question even more the sometimes rigid rehoming criteria around people who work, because it was such a great example of a great home on paper (home most of the time/not working) but in reality it was crap for the dogs!

 

[TPO]

Slightly off topic but since getting a dog I've followed some dog trainers on fb.

I've been rolling my eyes at them.offering a "drop off" service where you leave the dog with them a hour a week for 5wks ans on the 6th wk you stay to get trained how to handle the newly trained dog. It's not cheap either!

I couldn't believe there would be a demand for someone to leave a newly gotten dog/pup with someone else as surely part of having a dog is doing the training, albeit with the help of a trainer, but these services have been selling out everywhere.

Maybe a possibility for your friend? That way they do get a buttons installed dog and then they might actually exercise it?

 

[skinnydipper]

I do think a lot of dogs have suffered from the misunderstanding about "dominance" and how you must not be dominant.

I think the problem is that some TV personalities and some people think that bullying the dog amounts to leadership and training. It doesn't, its bullying plain and simple.

I only watched one of Graham Hall's programmes and that was enough. I can't remember all the details but he was staring down a Great Dane who was on a couch, he was lucky he didn't get his face taken off. You don't do things like that to a dog just because you can.

As for Cesar Millan

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think the problem is that some TV personalities and some people think that bullying the dog amounts to leadership and training. It doesn't, its bullying plain and simple.

I only watched one of Graham Hall's programmes and that was enough. I can't remember all the details but he was staring down a Great Dane who was on a couch, he was lucky he didn't get his face taken off. You don't do things like that to a dog just because you can.

As for Cesar Millan

Unfortunately things seem to have gone the other way, with all the 'don't say 'NO', just say 'ow' if the pup bites you' nonsense. The person has to be the one who makes the decisions in the person/dog relationship, or, as with C's friends, the dog doesn't feel secure and does become anxious to a greater or lesser degree.
We saw several examples of the dog being in charge yesterday, when we took ours, with the 8 months old pup to a country park for a run and then, because of the horribly wet weather, rather than sitting on a bench with a cup of coffee and a bacon sandwich, as usual, called at a dog-friendly cafe for lunch.
In the park, where there were very few people/dogs around and loads of empty space, we were barked at by 2 off-lead Viszlas, whose owners let them approach and then themselves walked right by us, rather than choosing to take a different line and call their dogs to go with them.
Then as we walked into the cafe, a small dog sitting near the door in an almost empty cafe was allowed to bark at us. We went to the opposite end of the room to sit with our dogs, who know to sit on the mat that we take with us, so that we can position them in the least obtrusive place.
2 poo-things came in separately but joined each other and proceeded to bark at everybody from the middle of the room, nobody even tried to quieten them. Mind you, one of the owners obviously wanted everyone to look at her, as she stood in the middle of the room declaiming about something or other while the staff were trying to get round her
Faith in dog-training was restored when a lurcher came in with his owners, was positioned neatly out of the way with a chew and his owners acknowledged his existence/good behaviour.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I don't know why people do this. Why do people who aren't actually "dog people" get dogs? They should basically be a kind of niche hobby not a ubiquitous acquisition because it is somehow what is expected!

Don't feel guilty. It's all on them.

For the same reason that some people buy a horse. And we have all seen the poor horse dumped out in a field whilst the owner looks over the fence once or twice a week.....it's very sad and the dog will be the loser when it bites someone.

 

[Arzada]

Put them in touch with a stud dog owner, for a litter related to one of mine. She’s very easy, active but thick ?. They got a dog.

A friend said, in response to something that has happened to me after I was kind to a neighbour, 'A good turn never goes unpunished' Awful isn't it but so true all too often.

 

[PurBee]

Its not your fault. The son was going to be keeping it active, and that evidently hasnt happened. You were told a story that hasnt materialised. That happened to me with a horse loan. Going to do x,y,and z with the horse, only to do nothing of the sort, so i have horse back and have to re-train after nearly getting severely injured! A sweet horse left here and returned aggressive and fearful.

I’ve known a couple of people get highly active dogs as puppies with intentions of training/keeping it active only to end up as sofa pets, and neither case worked out well. Both dogs attacked any other animal/ person new. So the owners then keep them confined moreso due to this, and their behaviour spirals. Its a very sad situation, especially for the dogs.
1 of the owners recently had to have their dog pts, and within the month has got a new dog, despite now knowing they dont have time for training/keeping dog active due to their own ill health.

Your friends dog is still fairly young if a lockdown puppy so there’s hope, but 1 person needs to be willing in the household to go to training classes and dedicate time to training, consistently.

 

[Spotherisk]

Clodagh and I went for a dog walk last week with her 5 month old lab and my 10 month old lurcher, they were both very good boys, no dramas, even managed to whistle my lurcher back when he was stareing into the wood looking for the barking deer, but I was most proud of them in the pub. There must have been a dozen dogs already in there, no trouble and only a couple of barks from those but ours were very good and stayed under the table, and we took it turns to leave them with each other whilst we left the table for a few minutes. The worst that happened was Rew standing on Scout’s head as a handy footstool! ?

I suppose what I’m saying is that you train and hope for good behaviours, sometimes you get it and praise, but you need to be prepared for it to go wrong - either of the dogs could have safely been returned to their car if the pub didn’t work out, as it was we were delighted with them both.

 

[laura_nash]

I think some people genuinely think dogs come with all the 'buttons' pre-installed.

I've had four dogs and two did genuinely come with all the 'buttons' installed. It's perfectly possible to get one that can slot right in without large amounts of training or exercise (or was before the COVID boom) if you prioritise that over anything else, and in particular over the breed/being pure bred and wanting to get a cute puppy. I have never got a puppy, can't be bothered with the house training.