Feeling somewhat disheartened

ladyt25

ladyt25

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Ok, so wrote this whole post and computer then said 'webpage expired' so I lost it! Will try make it shorter!

Quick history - have 4 yo horse, owned since aged 15mths andstarted backing him in Oct aged 3. He's been really good, hacking out a bit - getting on longer hacks over time.

However, took him to his first show with me on board (he's done inhand as a 2 and 3 yo), not competing, just took him along for the ride as said show has a nice paddock you can school in away from the warm up. This was a SJing show so not hugely busy with all sorts going on. Anyway, ended up on the be deck after a bronc - although he'd behaved well for 15 to 20 minutes walking around. So, out down to experience. Had a RC lesson (30 mins) later that week and was given some tips to ride him through it. Seemed to work. Went to a very low key dressage comp on the Sunday (to do walk and trot) but in warm up I ended up on the floor again in a more spectacular fashion! This time I was out of action for 3 weeks!

Took him back some steps and to a lady who has assisted me from the begining. Went back to sone ground work and he went well. Sat had 2nd session with her and she rode him after doing a fair bit of ground work. He did ok, tried it on a little bit but she worked him through it and he ended really well and was relaxed. She things his saddle is still a bit narrow (I bought him a Wintec Wide so could adjust it). It has Cair which she evidently didn't like!

Anyway, chatted to saddler on Sat and he gave me some advice re the fit. So, tonight I thought I would try the saddle on, without the padding I have been using. Just thought would do it in the field so put it on, tightened the girth (which he's been funny about recently) and I thought it did actually look ok without the padding. Asked him to back up andwell, he flipped! Bronced, which I intially thought was just him being a bit cheeky but it escalated and he then reared (never done that before and came down on top of me! I let go at this point and he proceeded to bronced in a rather panicked manner.Thankfully he didn't leg it and I went to him, calmed him down and removed the saddle. He was clearly shaken so I calmed him and then put the saddle on a couple more times without girthing - he didn't react.

I am feeling bad now - can't have him doing this with me on board and he's been so good until these explosions (although the two he's had whilst Ihave been on, I've kicked myself as feel Iwasn't prepared). However, it looks to me like he's reacting to pain as it was so violent and he looked so worried. I do not know if the saddle or girth or both are the cause.

Just feel bad :( Saddle looks to be giving him enough room so I am wondering if the girth's pinching. Has anyone experienced anything similar? I am feeling a bit suspicious at this broncing seems to have coincided with the new saddle/girth but then I have also asked something different of him so I thought that was more the reason. Just feel I've taken several steps back and am kicking myself :(
 
I would say there's a pain reaction - vet check followed by a saddler. One thing to check as to whether it's the saddle or something else you could try putting a roller on - if he reacts then that suggests that it might be the girthing or something rather than the saddle fit
 
He's lunged in the saddle before and with a roller and not reacted. He's been getting more annoyed with his girth going up recently when originally it never bothered him. It just seems that it was me asking him to back up (normally not a problem) that caused a reaction so I can only think something pinched him. Feel bad though as he looked genuinely upset about it all afterwards. Was really not expecting him to do what he did and it reminded me of why I should always wear a hat as I came very close to having his feet on my head.
 
Faracat, are you meaning his girth area? I am suspicious that may be the problem as he does not seem fussed by the saddle until I do the girth up,
 
Yes.

This is a good opportunity to post a wonderful anatomy/painted horse photo that I found earlier.

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What type of girth do you use? if it is a wide one lots of people have had problems with them, were the girth sits is not wide,we have had different breeds and only ever used padded cottage craft girths with no problems .
 
Can you try a sheepskin/lambs wool girth sleeve on the girth? Had similar issues and this helped considerably.
Also,has the horse been turned away since you backed him? If not,maybe now would be a good time to do so,as it could be that mentally he has coped with enough and needs time off to mature a little more.
 
Faracat, thanks - I was pretty sure that's where you meant. I want to get to the bottom of the cause as that reaction tonight was pretty indicative of him feeling something he didn't like! Shergar, I am using quite awide girth as I was advised to to be more comfortable for him. However, maybe this is not the case and this is causing the issue. I am using a Wintec shaped girth and he seemed ok with it to start with but prior to this I was just using a normal girth that I have for my other horse.

Spottyappy, thanks. I may have a switch round and see whether he stops the kicking to start with as he is obviously trying to tell me he's not happy. He hasn't been 'turned away' as such but then he's not had a really intensive backing as wedon't have facilities to school etc so he has literally been hacked out a couple of times a week for short periods and done the odd bit of lungeing when we've hired another school. I work full time so he doesn't get worked every day and lives out 24/7 so has plenty of time being a horse.

He loves to have the attention and enjoys going out so I don't think he necessarily needs to stop doing stuff but I am just stepping back a bit. I have my older horse to hack and compete so there's no pressure as such on him but he has an active brain I think and likes to do stuff!
 
I asked if you were using a wide girth because my friends horse was badly rubbed by one also a Wintec,we had a saddler come to fit a saddle and asked him about the girth he said lots of people have had problems with them.
I think if you use no wider than a cottage craft ,your horse should be fine.
I hope this helps .
 
Get the vet out to examine him first. Then get the saddler out . Why have you not had them out yet?
 
SusieT said:
Get the vet out to examine him first. Then get the saddler out . Why have you not had them out yet?
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Because there has been no reason to think he needs a vet. I have hacked him out over the last week without issue and had a session with an instructor on Saturday where a fair bit of time was spent with him on the ground and checking saddle fit but he has not reacted adversely to the girth/saddle other than he's started to get funny about his girth being done up (but nothing drastic). He has always been a bit ticklish on his tummy when grooming and I have always put it down to him just being him and to be honest this has improved.

I actually don't think it is a vet issue but I may well get the saddler out to check the saddle fit for me and then I think I will play with different girths as it hadn't really been something I had considered as none of my horses have ever been bothered about what girth you used. I think I may have been concentrating on and concerning myself about the saddle fit where the issue may be somewhere different!
 
You mentioned this was a new saddle, do you still have the old one - and girth (assuming he went OK in that one for breaking) can you go back to that for a while and see whether he settles.

Also not mentioned is ulcers as they can cause 'girthyness' symptoms - has his routine/ forage changed since you've been doing more with him?
 
Polos Mum - The initial saddle I used was my horse's Kent & Masters cob saddle. This though would be a little too narrow for my youngster now in it's current state. I though liked the idea of adjustable but didn't want to spend a fortune as, once he has stopped growing I would like to get him a really decent saddle. So, I chose a Wintec Wide GP as figured this would be more than wide enough and had better knee rolls than the K&M. I did try a Thorowgood GP as well but that did not look to fit him at all. The Wintec sat better.

My instructor (who is big into having saddles fitting and making sure they're not too narrow/restricting the shoulders) said it was ok but maybe not quite wide enough. At the lesson last week (she rode him not me) she thought it was still a tad too narrow in front but we played with padding it out etc. She wasn't however impressed about the CAIR and reckoned i should have it flocked. After this I spoke to the saddler (i did not buy the saddle from him) and he said that was rubbish and CAIR should be fine, if not better. He also stated it should not need to be padded out, you should just change the gullet bars and once they are right the saddle should be fine!

Cue confusion on my part! So, I thought I would try the saddle with no padding and see how it sat. Saddler also advised to use the 2nd and 3rd girth straps and not the 1st & 3rd as I had been. I thought it looked ok fit wise and he didn't mind me faffing about with it - pressing it etc (not a flinch). It was after I'd tightened the girth, although not really tight, and asked him to step back that he exploded on me. So, I figure either the girth pinched or something happened when he moved his shoulders back into the saddle that caused pain.

Prior to this he has hacked out in this saddle (I've had it a couple of months) and trotted/little bit of canter fine - no bucking. It was only when I took him to a show that he lost it and I thought ok, I've asked too much of him there. He then ditched me again at a show a week or so later (very small local dressage) show and this is why I have stepped back a bit and gone back for some session with my instructor to try and figure out why he's reacting.

If some of this behaviour is due to girthing then that is something I can do something about.
Diet wise he lives out 24/7 and has done since I got him at 15mths old so he eats grass, hay in winter and gets token hard feed (just a coarse mix) and that hasn't been changed. I don't think he's a prime candidate for ulcers but, if I can't resolve it through changes to his tack then it may be a route I have to look down. He has had his back checked as I wanted this looking at before i started riding him properly and there were no issues with his back.

I am going to strip it back again and start from scratch and try eliminate causes. I think that's all i can do.
 
ladyt25 said:
My instructor (who is big into having saddles fitting and making sure they're not too narrow/restricting the shoulders) said it was ok but maybe not quite wide enough. At the lesson last week (she rode him not me) she thought it was still a tad too narrow in front but we played with padding it out etc. She wasn't however impressed about the CAIR and reckoned i should have it flocked. After this I spoke to the saddler (i did not buy the saddle from him) and he said that was rubbish and CAIR should be fine, if not better. He also stated it should not need to be padded out, you should just change the gullet bars and once they are right the saddle should be fine!
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I'm surprised at this tbh. A lot of people have had problems with the cair system in wintecs.

Have you had the physio out?
 
You're surprised re what the saddler said? It just seems a complete minefield these days to be honest - god knows what happened to the good old days when you just got a saddle, it fitted and away you went! :-)

His back has been checked 3 times since I bought him as we have our others seen probably twice a year anyway. The physio checked him earlier in the year and said he was fine, no issues. I trust him as he has dones some fab work on my others.

I rang my fingers down his back tonight putting a fair bit of pressure on. He didn't really react (no more than any other horse). Also pressed and ran my hands over various parts of his girth and chest area and he wasn't fussed about that although I can tell he's given himself a scare as he's a little wary about what I am doing.

I think I probably need to get the saddler to have a look - if it needs flocking/trading in for a flocked then so be it. In the meantime I am just going to get his confidence back, do some lungeing as we were doing.I can't put a girth on him as something cut him on one side when he was broncing. I am not sure of the girth or because the stirrup came undone and caught him. Thing is, he doesn't seem bothered about this, he didn't leg it in fear he was definitely reacting to pain but it's like he doesn't want to run away because he wants us to help him!
 
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