Feeling totally depressed :'(

R

RWG

Member
Joined
8 January 2015
Messages
22
Location
Manchester
Visit site
It's going to be an essay, I apologize in advance. So I bought my mare last Oct, 15.2 7yo cob, she'd mainly hunted in Ireland but had the basics established in the school (walk, trot, canter) and was a safe hack. Had her 5 stage vetted, passed with flying colours. When she arrived I found her dominant & bolshy to handle, she'd charge out of her stable, try to drag me to the field, wouldn't pick up her feet etc. With just 2 weeks of firm handling and lots of ground work, she was like a different horse, she really settled and now consistently good with ground manners.

Ridden, she initially tried to run through the contact, cut corners and basically charge forwards, i'd have to do lots of half halts, circles etc. As the weeks progressed and she settled, she became a lot more 'backwards' and needed more leg, so my instructor advised lots of transitions to get her moving away from my leg correctly. About 3 weeks ago, I asked for a trot transition in the school and she threw in a huge buck. I asked again quietly, cue lots of kicking, snorting and more bucking. She eventually went forwards and behaved, but I was horrified so had the saddler (who's also a physio) out the next day to check her back and saddle. Saddler said everything was fine, watched me ride, mare was naughty again and saddler suggested she was just napping. I had the vet coming the next week to do vaccinations, so I had him watch me ride, he came to the same conclusion that she was 100% sound, back is fine, she was just being a 'madam'. Also, she's perfectly fine to girth, mount etc which does support the 'naughty mare' theory.

Decided to try giving her (and me!) a week off schooling so just did gentle hacking last week, she was great, really relaxed, happy to plod around and also happy trotting forwards with no complaints. Went back to the school last night and we were back to square one. My instructor helpfully told me that she might be better suited to a hunting and hacking home :( I really don't know what else to do, I love her and have a great bond with her on the ground, but I never wanted just a 'happy hacker'. Plus, I work full time so need to be able to ride in the school winter evenings when hacking isn't possible. Should add that teeth fine and her routine has never changed, she gets daily turn out and haylage morn/eve. She's a typical cob 'good doer' so not on hard feed at present, but her weight hasn't really changed over the winter. Went to bed in tears last night, after 15 years of loaning and sharing I was ridiculously excited to get my own horse, but i'm starting to dread getting on her in the school, not because im particularly scared, its more that it feels like neither of us are enjoying it at all :(
 
I think I would be tempted to keep her out of the school and do some gentle schooling on your hacks (what most of us did before having a school became more common) working in a school is hard work for a green horse and I wouldn't be going back in there until I was satisfied that the horse had good transitions and balance on a straight line first

At 7 years old I wouldn't write her off as not suitable in the school
 
I accept I know less than your vet or physio but if her ovaries are starting to prepare for the spring could that make her sore? I would do as WelshD says, also get her back checked/done by a person of your choice and let her hack out for a while. Try in the school again in a month?
 
Assuming you cannot find a physical reason, tbh I would sell her - for both of your sakes. Horses take up to much of our time, energy, and hard earned money to not get any enjoyment, and there is no shame in admitting when a partnership does not work.

I imagine if you did a survey on here, there would be very few of us that had not been in a similar position at one time or another (and I have been twice!!!).

The issue I worry you will have is explaining to prospective buyers why you are selling, so would be 100% honest, price her accordingly, and keep everything crossed that you can find her the right new owner.

However to give you heart, I also have a cob who I just hack/fun ride and hunt - not because he bucks or naps in the school, just because I have no interest in that side of riding. We do all our schooling on hacks and neither of us have suffered for it so far! Even when I viewed him I did not go in the school - just took him on a hack and popped over some xc jumps.

Good luck with whatever you decide x
 
Clodagh said:
I accept I know less than your vet or physio but if her ovaries are starting to prepare for the spring could that make her sore? I would do as WelshD says, also get her back checked/done by a person of your choice and let her hack out for a while. Try in the school again in a month?
Click to expand...

This. The mares here came into season last month.
 
Well I don't know why you are so depressed, it sounds to me as though you have made great progress with her!
She's only young, schooling is hard work both mentally and physically for her. Most young cobs dislike schooling. You should have seen some of the paddies one of ours threw when he was younger,now he's 10yrs old he's much happier in the school and more mentally able to cope.
Give her some time off from schooling,hack out and have some fun with her. Do a bit of training whilst hacking. Give her time to mature. You have to move at her pace not yours.
 
WelshD said:
I think I would be tempted to keep her out of the school and do some gentle schooling on your hacks (what most of us did before having a school became more common) working in a school is hard work for a green horse and I wouldn't be going back in there until I was satisfied that the horse had good transitions and balance on a straight line first

At 7 years old I wouldn't write her off as not suitable in the school
Click to expand...

I second WelshD. I got H 2 years ago as a green 7yo and anything more than 20 mins in the school was just too much for him as he just wasn't balanced enough. So I limited school work to 1-2 days a week max and spent the rest of the time schooling him whilst hacking (which also helped him to become more forward and confident). I also work full time and up until recently had him on grass livery and found that with a bit of juggling I could get out for a 45 min hack most mornings before work in winter and on the days I didn't have time to ride I would lunge him in either a pessoa or side reins. It's totally do-able but it really does depend whether you want to or enjoy hacking, if all you want to do is school or compete it may be worth looking for something a bit more established and currently working in a similar set up and selling your horse on to a hacking or hunting home.
 
Have you tried scoping for ulcers? Or could be feeling hormonal with spring in the air? Lot of horses at our yard are coming into season already
 
You work full time and you wanted an easy horse who is happy to work in the school on a regular basis. Sometimes partnerships just don't work out, and there are lots of horses who just don't like working in the school for one reason or another. I believe in giving every horse a chance, but I also think that different horses are suited to different situations and partnerships, and it's not a question of failure or anything, but quite simply that sometimes there is a mis-match and there's no way to know that until you've tried it - a bit like any relationship.

There are two options here, either adapt your own expectations to suit the horse and do more hacking and less in the school for now, or change the horse to suit your needs. If your priority is your bond with this particular horse, then it won't be a hard choice for you to adapt what you do, but if your priority is to 'do more than hacking' then you may be better getting a horse who is ready right now to do what you want to. I've been in both situations: 'I want to do this discipline, therefore I am going to sell this horse who is not suitable, and buy that horse who is.' And: 'I love this horse to the moon and back and I am going to find out what he is good at and that is what I will do.'

Only you can decide, but either way try not to interpret it as a personal failure. It is more a matter of best fit and personal choices. If you are really unsure, do nothing for now and persevere. Sometimes when we plod on rather than forcing a decision things work out after all, or something decisive happens or we get to the point where the decision becomes easy because something changes.
 
Last edited:
Don't give up without changing your routine a bit to see if that helps, particularly if you feel your mare in all others way is a good'un!

She is only young and spring is here, which means we all have more time in the evenings now to ride, so perhaps you can avoid schooling in a school, and do it on hacks? Her age and balance means I would probably avoid too much schooling for now, especially whilst you now have the advantage of better weather around the corner. Keep her workload varied, and make sure when/if you use to school you think quality over quantity i.e 15-20 minutes of balanced and relaxed work, which you can then build on.

Also, with the change in weather, it wouldn't surprise me that her behaviour is partly down to hormones- perhaps give a chance for this to pass, and then re-evaluate again? My mare tends to just get rather vocal, and is extremely loving on the ground, but just extremely backwards thinking when ridden... I realise I am one of the lucky ones with a very easy mare, but I have only learnt what is normal for her through routine, time and observing.

Maybe you just need to suss your mare too? If and when you've exhausted all other avenues, then would I consider selling. I guess at which point you reach that decision, depends how much time you have to put into working with her? As LinzyD says it also depends on whether you are happy to adjust your ridden routine with her for her (whether that is short term or long term), or whether you are keen to find something that is willing and ready to school now. Whatever you decide, it isn't failure though- some horses are keepers, others we have and then it is time to move on for whatever reason.

Good luck whatever you decide x
 
Last edited:
I bought my cob mare in March 2013 and I had times when I thought I had made a huge mistake buying her - she was stubborn, nappy and un-cooperative in the school. It has taken us nearly 2 years of a lot of hard work to start to come to some sort of understanding. I had weekly lessons with an understanding instructor and we would have weeks of massive progress then one week it would all go t1ts up and we would be back to square one.

All I can say from my experience and looking back at how things were for me is to have regular lessons and take things slowly in the school. We did weeks of just walk work and only when she was really listening would my instructor allow us to introduce trot. Maybe this way is not for everyone but now 2 years on I understand what makes her tick much better and although we still have a lot to learn we are doing much better and the good days are becoming more frequent than the bad.

Some days I am pretty sure she hates me but she is healthy and could not have a better life so I am not asking much of her to work for an hour a day! If you are like me - you will want some sort of magic, quick answer - I searched everywhere but in the end the only thing that worked was time and patience.... good luck :)
 
I agree it could be hormonal, especially as she was a bit like it in October (although she could have been unsettled by the move then) good all winter and is now starting to show signs of issues again. Maybe try her on "Stroppy Mare" or something similar or even Regumate. There's another thread today with people saying even just a short course of Regumate in spring an autumn helps their mares so it needn't cost a fortune.
 
This may not be a great help, but why not give her some time off schooling. the evenings are lighter now can you not hack then? Then try her again in the school in the winter. That gives her a bit of time to mature as well?

Don't give up to soon. It's not been long to build a relationship. I've had one of mine for the same amount of time and Ive nearly given up! But I'm constantly thankful I didn't. Working full time and juggling other responsibilities can be really hard. I commute to London and mine are on DIY. I lunge in the mornings and ride in the evenings
 
annagain said:
I agree it could be hormonal, especially as she was a bit like it in October (although she could have been unsettled by the move then) good all winter and is now starting to show signs of issues again. Maybe try her on "Stroppy Mare" or something similar or even Regumate. There's another thread today with people saying even just a short course of Regumate in spring an autumn helps their mares so it needn't cost a fortune.
Click to expand...

Here it is. Have a read of this: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-Depo-Injections-Experiences-and-alternatives!
 
I think young horses can get sour in the school very quickly and with cobs, keeping their brains engaged is quite important. Mine loves hacking much more than schooling and is sometimes quite difficult in the school. When he is being a pain, I introduce things to "play" to keep him engaged. So instead of pursuing whatever I have been trying to achieve, we will do bending up the centre line with pole pods as our bending poles, fit in as many serpentines in down the school as possible, stick some poles out in either a square or cross so that we can come at them from all sorts of angles, and do some lateral work. Hard to explain but, for example, I might walk into a cross of poles, halt and ask him to turn on the forehand and then exit out over a pole. This can all be done at walk and not only engages his brain but also his body. If he's particularly stroppy, we do it at trot as well.

After 15 minutes of "play", we go back to whatever I wanted to do in the first place and nine times out of ten, it goes much better.

The "play" session also stops me obsessing about what I want/expect him to do and puts my brain "in the right place" as well as his.
 
Thanks so much everyone, I'm obviously new to the forum but this is exactly why I joined, you've all help me put things in perspective. I'm certainly not ready to give up yet, if we're still in the same place in 6 months time then i'd reevaluate the situation as I agree with some posts that not all partnerships work out. However she's such a lovely mare i'd like to give us both more time to get to know each other. I'll take on board the suggestions regarding hormones (thanks for the link!) and also spend less time in the school for the time being to see if that helps. I like the 'play' suggestion as well, it's certainly not something i'd considered! Thanks all, i'll keep you posted :-)
 
Sorry, should have added in response to questions, she's also very backwards to lunge in the school, so far just been using elastic side reins, not tried pessoa. I have to really chase her with the whip to get her moving, I end up more exhausted than she does. In fairness the surface in our arena is quite deep, so I think she finds it hard work both ridden and lunging which is why she kicks up a fuss. Building up fitness with more hacking will hopefully help.
 
RWG said:
Sorry, should have added in response to questions, she's also very backwards to lunge in the school, so far just been using elastic side reins, not tried pessoa. I have to really chase her with the whip to get her moving, I end up more exhausted than she does. In fairness the surface in our arena is quite deep, so I think she finds it hard work both ridden and lunging which is why she kicks up a fuss. Building up fitness with more hacking will hopefully help.
Click to expand...

If, as it sounds, your mare is fed up with schooling then I really wouldn't lunge her, I wouldn't use the school at all for the rest of the summer and then use it rarely next winter. If she's been hunting etc before you bought her she's used to going out and about and enjoying life and it sounds as if you are just going backwards now.
 
Clodagh said:
I accept I know less than your vet or physio but if her ovaries are starting to prepare for the spring could that make her sore? I would do as WelshD says, also get her back checked/done by a person of your choice and let her hack out for a while. Try in the school again in a month?
Click to expand...

100% agree. I know of a few mares who do what yours is doing this time of year. A hormone supplement helped a lot but a few (including my wb) had to go in regumate
 
Can you make schooling more interesting? It can be amazing how much forward you have if there's a crosspole up. She's only young, probably not that balanced and it can be very hard work for her.
 
Noooo, you have the horse and love her, don't give up. The horse doesn't like hacking, but does love hunting (and most of them do), so the challenge is to make the schooling more fun to get the horse more engaged.

I lent a horse to a college for a bit and she came back very school sour, and we had to make it fun for both of us. Its actually taught me so much about not boring a horse to death and making it fun for both of us!

Now, this may not appeal and fair enough, but I tried clicker training with the horse. Just enough on the ground to get her used to it, but very quickly we moved to ridden. Completely different horse, loves it, loves the praise, loves always being told she is getting everything right, we used it over jumps, for transitions, for impulsion, for just standing still for ages. I have seen it used discretely now by many other people. One girl I know who shows at a very high level (won HOYS heavy hunter so no fluffy bunny) always has a target in her pocket and if she feels the horse is stressing, she makes the horse do a neck flexion to the right and left to touch the target and that completely diffuses the moment. The trick it to make it YOUR technique, and don't bother with a clicker tool, just click - or whatever noise you choose to make - with your tongue.

I have also seen it used to introduce the more technical school movements to a horse - travers, shoulder in, etc, with great effect.

The other option is to put a few random X-poles around and between every short schooling session pop a little jump - who said it has to be one thing or the other. Lots of other crazy ways to liven up schooling. Clearly the aim is to make it beautiful and professional looking, but while you build up the concentration time, you can make it real fun and really turn your horses thinking round.

Good luck!
 
Cobs find schooling physically hard. She's young and unschooled and your arena is deep. Start with 5min, make it fun, then go out for a hack. Build up the schooling gradually. It really is hard work for them in a deep arena and you will quickly sour her if you keep asking for more more more. All her bad habits have one cause: evasion. Someone might have soured her before you bought her, if she started with those evasions right from the beginning how did she already know she did not like schooling? Most horses natural reaction is to try to do as you ask, as long as they are not scared and it is not physically difficult. Instructors can look for quick progress because that is what clients want. You might not mind aching after a good schooling session but does your horse agree?

Edit: if you want lessons see if there are any other young horses on your yard whose owners want lessons too. If you get an instructor who does half hour slots you and the other horse could have 15min each.
 
Last edited:
With every horse I have had there has been at least one point where I have felt like you do - and i am sure that is the same with most people. For me, it is the relationship on the ground and genuinely liking the horse that makes the difference as to whether i stick with it. My first horse, after about 2 weeks, turned really sour. I couldnt get her out of walk for about a month, and the first year was really hard. But she was the most lovely horse so i persevered and we went on to be on young riders teams in dressage, and i still own her now 9 years later as cant bare to part with her! However, I later got a sports horse on loan who was the opposite - we won absolutely everything we entered but i genuinely disliked him. he was a horrible horse to handle, would kick out at everyone and needed 4 people to turn him out. thats what really made it not fun and i hated taking him out to shows despite guaranteed success.
so my advice would be to perhaps persevere for longer. it takes years to get to know your horse, particularly a mare, and seeing as you seem to genuinely like her i think that with a little time and patience you will form a great bond.
 
Easiest way to see if it's hormonal is get a bottle of regumate from vet. Try it for a few weeks. It works very quickly. Both my mares are on it from now till winter. Both are easy to handle on the ground. One works at medium and is a gem to ride except when asking for canter will come to a grinding halt in school . Regumate stops this behaviour. The other again is fab to handle great to hack but when asking for work in school ie when you put leg on threatens to and sometimes buck. Again this behaviour stops on regumate. So my point is it's doesn't need to be extreme behaviour ie a moody mare as neither are moody but regumate helps both horses And me have a lovely summer of work. So if it was me I wouldn't avoid the school I'd try some regumate from the vet. They may not agree my vet didn't with either but I wanted to try so he eventually agreed and I got fab results took both back off it a few weeks later. To see if it was the regumate working and behaviour started again so back on regumate for the spring and summer. Best of luck
 
Last edited:
BDyasmine said:
With every horse I have had there has been at least one point where I have felt like you do - and i am sure that is the same with most people. For me, it is the relationship on the ground and genuinely liking the horse that makes the difference as to whether i stick with it. My first horse, after about 2 weeks, turned really sour. I couldnt get her out of walk for about a month, and the first year was really hard. But she was the most lovely horse so i persevered and we went on to be on young riders teams in dressage, and i still own her now 9 years later as cant bare to part with her! However, I later got a sports horse on loan who was the opposite - we won absolutely everything we entered but i genuinely disliked him. he was a horrible horse to handle, would kick out at everyone and needed 4 people to turn him out. thats what really made it not fun and i hated taking him out to shows despite guaranteed success.
so my advice would be to perhaps persevere for longer. it takes years to get to know your horse, particularly a mare, and seeing as you seem to genuinely like her i think that with a little time and patience you will form a great bond.
Click to expand...

Echo this. Actually liking the horse makes everything bearable.
 
Some more great suggestions, thank you :-) . I really do love her on the ground, she seems thrilled to see me every day and enjoys grooming me as much as I do her! I've always believed that manners are incredibly important (hence me getting the ground work sorted first) so I was questioning whether I needed to 'get tough' and not let her 'take the mick' out of me (my instructors words) in the school. On the other hand, she does seem genuinely upset, so it had entered my mind that I was expecting too much too soon, or that there may be some hormonal reason for the behavior. You've all reinforced this opinion so thank you, it's made me realise that I should listen to my horse, otherwise both of us will end up feeling miserable x
 
It does take longer than you'd think and I think everyone comes across hiccups. But it is great when it starts to go right!

I'd certainly try less is more by way of schooling approach, especially if the arena is deep too, but make sure you school a bit while hacking. Also probably worth doing a fair amount of ground work with her, not just lungeing but long lines? lead work? We had a classical style in-hand lesson this morning for the first time and it was really interesting :).

Could you use a different instructor with perhaps a few more ideas than she doesn't like schooling :p.
 
Don't give up!
She sounds just like the cob I was riding. He loved hacking but despised the school! He would be dead to the leg, nap or be the opposite and squeal and bronc - basically anything to avoid 'work'!
Everytime I was strict and worked him through it he was fine. It was hard work and challenging but once he knew I was in charge he was more accepting. I never bullied him into it but I just didn't want him to think he could call it a day and say no when he liked! He too had his back, teeth etc checked, all fine.
Luckily he is in a home where he's not really going to be used for schooling but like you, I had to use the school on dark days, rainy days etc.
Unfortunately I don't ride him anymore but I just wanted to comment as I had experienced similar :). I am sure he, like your mare, will get there eventually. Don't push her too hard and bore her, try schooling on hacks or making things interesting in the menege.
If she really objects to schooling and she's not going to be what you are looking for, then I agree with the poster who said to sell. - I'd only do that very last resort though! She sounds great otherwise :)
 
moleskinsmum said:
I think young horses can get sour in the school very quickly and with cobs, keeping their brains engaged is quite important. Mine loves hacking much more than schooling and is sometimes quite difficult in the school. When he is being a pain, I introduce things to "play" to keep him engaged. So instead of pursuing whatever I have been trying to achieve, we will do bending up the centre line with pole pods as our bending poles, fit in as many serpentines in down the school as possible, stick some poles out in either a square or cross so that we can come at them from all sorts of angles, and do some lateral work. Hard to explain but, for example, I might walk into a cross of poles, halt and ask him to turn on the forehand and then exit out over a pole. This can all be done at walk and not only engages his brain but also his body. If he's particularly stroppy, we do it at trot as well.

After 15 minutes of "play", we go back to whatever I wanted to do in the first place and nine times out of ten, it goes much better.

The "play" session also stops me obsessing about what I want/expect him to do and puts my brain "in the right place" as well as his.
Click to expand...

Agree with the above sooooo much.

My first cob was very naughty in the school - he'd gone sour with too much schooling. But he loved jumping and games, so I'd plonk a few poles down in the school and make everything a bit of a game and he was as different again.

Go and have some fun with your cob OP; she'll never know she's secretly being schooled:-) Try all sorts of stuff; anything to get her bending and working and keeping her brain ticking over.

Enjoy!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top