Feelings about box rest

[Littlelegs]

Wagtail agree 100%, hers was caused by idiots firing air rifles at the horses in the field & her subsequently spending several hours at flat out gallop on hard ground, hence the reason vet was extremely confident it would heal. Also she's Connie x tb & very hardy, overall the chances of the same thing happening again were unlikely. My decision would have been different if it had occurred over something she regularly did.

 

[Littlelegs]

Amandap- there are more factors than just that. Most stress free horses will gallop up & down simply cos they can. If I had a suitably sedate horse, & a field away from all outside influences except for a companion of my choice, then yes it could work.

 

[AdorableAlice]

The longest I've had a horse on box rest is just over three months (twice in 18 months).

I'd have to think long and hard about a period of time of say 5 months or more - and certainly if I were looking at a period of time of over 5 months then my inclination would be to say no. There comes a point where I think if you are looking at that sort of time frame then the outcome for the horse is questionable, and certainly the quality of life is going to be pretty

Good job you don't own my horse, you would have put a bullet in his head by now, based on your thoughts of quality of life and outcome.

A horse lives in real time, he does not stand in his box and think "god I've been stood here for weeks/months, and they are expecting me to stay in for another x months.

As owners we must listen to the veterinary advice given, on this point I would be making sure I was using a equine vet at the top of their game.

Another poster said rest the injury not the horse. Had I followed that thought and put the horse out he would have needed to be shot in the gateaway as he was let go. I could not have said to the horse - look you have a hole the size of a golf ball in your hind check, please do not get out of a walk, do not spin round, do not get in deep mud etc etc, it would be helpful if a horse could sit on the sofa with his bad leg up, a cup of tea and the remote !

Every horse is different, box/barn rest is tricky, hard work and heartbreaking but if the professionals treating our horses are confident that time will bring the injured horse back into a happy life I see no reason why box rest should not be done. There is much in the modern medicine box now that will help keep the horse settled. I thoroughly recommend getting a pony friend and having it within touching reach if possible. We must take away our human feelings, horses do not think like we do.

My horse has been in since August 1st, massive injury,older horse, huge horse and no dobbin. Scanned last night, 98% healed, walking starts soon and it's going to be difficult. As long as I control the rehab there is no reason my horse will not fully recover.

The time span from injured to fully recovered, all being well, will be more than a year.

Has it been worth it ? in my view yes. The horse was a very successful competition horse, he will never win anything again, but he spent years of his life trying his best for me, so with the guidance of good vets I made the decision to try and mend him and to allow him to end his life as a hack and relaxing in the field after a lifetime of hardwork. Had he not had a high chance of recovery I would have put him down making the decision purely based on recovery not on making him endure box rest.

I can vividly remember being told how long the horse would need to be in for at the first scan in August. To be honest I went weak at the knees and my brain was insisting it was not possible, I had never had anything in for more than a month before, and I have kept horses for more than 30 years.

So for anyone facing it, take advice from good vets, take out human feelings and prepare yourself for hardwork, it's not an impossible situation.

 

[amandap]

I think in most cases you are right. Unfortunately vets have little sympathy for any alternatives I find! If you take laminitis, there is a school of thought that is right against box rest because remaining stationary is very bad for the circulation that you actually need to stimulate. But if you let them out, there is a greater risk of rotation, especially in larger animals.

I agree Vets really need to reassess the implications of prescribing box rest. I believe a frank discussion with the owner and an agreement of a plan of action is needed. Perhaps vets are afraid of being sued? A plan could be in writing if need be and re assessed each visit.

As I'm sure you are aware I'm of the movement in laminitis camp but along with big reservations including the trim given, protection to the hoof and ability for the horse to choose for itself whether to walk, lie down etc. Imo if you decide to go this route you need a team involved who truly understand this system.

 

[amandap]

I'm reminded of human dementia elderly care when I think of box rest... do you let them walk and move to remain happy and healthy with a risk of falling or do you strap them in a chair or constantly tell them to sit down or drug them for fear they might fall at some point?

 

[Littlelegs]

Amandap- agree in some cases, but it is impossible to tell a lively or fit horse not to go hooning round a field. Also comparing elderly dementia patients is more akin to a horse that has no hope of recovery.

 

[amandap]

Amandap- there are more factors than just that. Most stress free horses will gallop up & down simply cos they can. If I had a suitably sedate horse, & a field away from all outside influences except for a companion of my choice, then yes it could work.

I have been watching mine most of this morning as I do every day (I'm lucky enough to have them at home) and I rarely see them galloping around unless they have heard horses being delivered to the field down the road etc and when they are turned out after a period off grass. Does this mean they're not relaxed?

Amandap- agree in some cases, but it is impossible to tell a lively or fit horse not to go hooning round a field. Also comparing elderly dementia patients is more akin to a horse that has no hope of recovery.

I'm talking about mental and physical quality of life. We must consider this and how box rest affects a horse physically. I do think horses generally live in the moment but I certainly do not believe they have no concept of time or a good memory or do not get depressed. They are intelligent animals.

 

[Littlelegs]

Lots of horses regularly enjoy hooning about for the joy of it, it isn't just because they aren't relaxed, even oldies enjoy charging round on occasion for no particular reason. And in some cases that first blast of trot even can mean irreparable damage.

 

[Littlelegs]

Just seen the rest of your post, agree whole heartedly with the second part.

 

[AmyMay]

Good job you don't own my horse, you would have put a bullet in his head by now, based on your thoughts of quality of life and outcome.

Not necessarily - it would very much depend on what the problem was - but most likely I would look for an alternative to a long term period of box rest (after the initial rest period). My comment on quality of life was to do with whilst on long term box rest, not after the horse was recovered.

But at the end of the day - we do what we feel is best. And of course will not always agree, nor is it always cut and dried.

 

[amandap]

Lots of horses regularly enjoy hooning about for the joy of it, it isn't just because they aren't relaxed, even oldies enjoy charging round on occasion for no particular reason. And in some cases that first blast of trot even can mean irreparable damage.

Yes, this is the risk we might have to take but we can reduce it as much as we can or force our horses to endure box rest...

The thing is we have to start by asking why so many horses get ligament and tendon injuries for example to start with... Perhaps less time in the box from birth might help?
I realize liveries are very difficult environments but surely they should be low stress as possible leading to low stress horses.

Apols, I'm a devil for modifying my posts.

 

[FinkleyAlex]

I think it depends on the horse's quality of life afterwards. My own horse is very laid back and loves being in his stable (much to my disgust - I'd rather he enjoyed being in the field but alas he was brought up on a showing yard) and he's always been fine on box rest. The longest he's been on box rest is about 4/5 months but I would keep him in for up to a year if he could have a nice quality of life afterwards (I don't care about his abilities to be ridden - just knowing he could be a pain-free lawnmower). For a more highly strung horse who hates being stabled then I would not want to inflict more than a few months box rest. I am not a believe of putting horses to sleep straight away - if they can handle the box rest and have a good life of grazing afterwards then I would not put to sleep. If they are doomed to be in pain afterwards and are not the type to handle being a lawnmower then I would PTS. I find too many people put their horses to sleep without really trying anything - one yard I went to would put anything to sleep that would need more than 4 weeks box rest. Other situations entail people not wanting to have a lawnmower or care for the horse whilst on box rest and so put it to sleep before going out and buying another - something I believe is truly selfish.

 

[Littlelegs]

Amandap agree many injuries can be avoided. My mare had spent years 100% sound & hers really was unavoidable, but I have come across damage that was avoidable. Very hard one to judge without knowing the circumstances.

 

[Alphamare]

Cuts are not superficial injuries!!

This is exactly what my made is in for. She has cut herself only about an inch and a half over the short pastern. It's nothing you say, just superficial?

She is having to stay in because she is in a pressure bandage to try and stop the bleeding. She cut the artery with her nothing special superficial cut! She also cut through at least one tendon sheath so we are trying desperately to prevent infection. Antibiotics and keeping her in and clean. She can't go out as she must move much because the artery needs to close.

All this from a small, nothing, superfial cut. Sheesh

 

[Littlelegs]

Finkley Alex- I don't think you can judge people who 'pts without trying' unless you know every specific detail. I've done 12 mnths with one, but had another destroyed 'without trying'. Based on the fact he'd smash his delicate tb legs up on the door if you tried to keep him in for a day. I didn't choose to have the hunt out as a 17yr old because I couldn't be bothered to look after him on box rest. If I'd cared less it would have made financial sense to try. But I did what he needed, not what I wanted or what I felt would impress those looking to judge most.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Cuts are not superficial injuries!!

This is exactly what my made is in for. She has cut herself only about an inch and a half over the short pastern. It's nothing you say, just superficial?

She is having to stay in because she is in a pressure bandage to try and stop the bleeding. She cut the artery with her nothing special superficial cut! She also cut through at least one tendon sheath so we are trying desperately to prevent infection. Antibiotics and keeping her in and clean. She can't go out as she must move much because the artery needs to close.

All this from a small, nothing, superfial cut. Sheesh

Alphamare, I hope and pray you do not get tendon infection. What a nightmare.

 

[rhino]

Hmm, not really sure how much use comparing humans and horses is to be honest

I'm another 'depends on the horse' person, but have to say I've never experienced a horse that truly couldn't cope with box rest.

Mine injured himself in the field and was on box rest (with controlled walking) from Sept - Dec, and then on restricted turnout (in school with buddy) for a couple more months. He was calm, content and was no trouble at all. No sedation at any time, no painkillers either

This is him after about 6 weeks box rest and controlled walking

This is his 2nd period of box rest in his life, the other was another field injury about 11 years ago (although I think he only did about 4 weeks before the vet preferred to have him out).

He's in his 20s so there would be a limit to what I would expect him to do (especially regarding surgery etc) but I would always at least try..

 

[Alphamare]

Thank you very much AdorbableAlice

 

[Littlelegs]

I've met 2 who wouldn't do boxrest. Mine was an ex-racer who after coming off the track was kept in a box for a year by his petrified new owner with hay thrown over, & occasionally chased into the corner with a whip to get buckets out the front. 2 years work meant he'd progressed to 10 minutes in a box without panic. Anything requiring staying in, was the fatties little starvation paddock. Bandaging legs & shutting top door was an option I suppose, but not one I'd take for my benefit. Other horse I knew was a friends pony who was half blind & felt threatened away from her herd.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Good job you don't own my horse, you would have put a bullet in his head by now, based on your thoughts of quality of life and outcome.

A horse lives in real time, he does not stand in his box and think "god I've been stood here for weeks/months, and they are expecting me to stay in for another x months.

As owners we must listen to the veterinary advice given, on this point I would be making sure I was using a equine vet at the top of their game.

Another poster said rest the injury not the horse. Had I followed that thought and put the horse out he would have needed to be shot in the gateaway as he was let go. I could not have said to the horse - look you have a hole the size of a golf ball in your hind check, please do not get out of a walk, do not spin round, do not get in deep mud etc etc, it would be helpful if a horse could sit on the sofa with his bad leg up, a cup of tea and the remote !

Every horse is different, box/barn rest is tricky, hard work and heartbreaking but if the professionals treating our horses are confident that time will bring the injured horse back into a happy life I see no reason why box rest should not be done. There is much in the modern medicine box now that will help keep the horse settled. I thoroughly recommend getting a pony friend and having it within touching reach if possible. We must take away our human feelings, horses do not think like we do.

My horse has been in since August 1st, massive injury,older horse, huge horse and no dobbin. Scanned last night, 98% healed, walking starts soon and it's going to be difficult. As long as I control the rehab there is no reason my horse will not fully recover.

The time span from injured to fully recovered, all being well, will be more than a year.

Has it been worth it ? in my view yes. The horse was a very successful competition horse, he will never win anything again, but he spent years of his life trying his best for me, so with the guidance of good vets I made the decision to try and mend him and to allow him to end his life as a hack and relaxing in the field after a lifetime of hardwork. Had he not had a high chance of recovery I would have put him down making the decision purely based on recovery not on making him endure box rest.

I can vividly remember being told how long the horse would need to be in for at the first scan in August. To be honest I went weak at the knees and my brain was insisting it was not possible, I had never had anything in for more than a month before, and I have kept horses for more than 30 years.

So for anyone facing it, take advice from good vets, take out human feelings and prepare yourself for hardwork, it's not an impossible situation.

Well said Alice: at last someone who thinks like I do


so many on here have told me that 6 months is long enough for my mare.


So what do I do???

Cut my losses after spending 6 months vets bills and over come allot then to pull the plug?? That doesn't make sense .

Thank god my mare is in my care. She has over come so much and come so far . Yes hiccups along the way but my vet said these are just blips.

My vet has been positive and upfront all the way as has my farrier.
My mare has coped with box rest 8 months eek:you will think) 100% beautifully.


She has a massive box 15 by 14 over a ft deep shavings . has developed
0 vices .

Vets keep saying she will be fine . We have brilliant vets brilliant farrier my front door is 6 ft away from her stable door. I have cctv in there to keep an eye on her .

She walked out this week for farrier and stood snoozing in the sun rope hanging down


Yes we have had laminitis 3 flare ups
yes we had infection of the bone
yes we had abscess
yes we have sunk x 2
all the above we have overcome


now we have glue on shoe
we have attachment round the coronet band
she walking in a straight line the best we have done in a long while
now its just time .


As mentioned it depends on the horse. IMO MY horse trust me knows why she is in. Is not stressed does not try to get out is calm and relaxed.
wants to get better so I will nurse her.
I am lucky my husband is funding her treatment 22 years of owning her he knows how important she is to me.

Who are we to put a time limit on a horse who is recovering .

Since our journey began she coped with EVERYTHING that happened 100% like a trooper.
In another situation where horse cant cope or it hasnt improved in a few months is going backwards or cant cope with the problem then PTS is best.

In my situation the blips have been blips we had moved on before the blip so we can move on again and we have and did.

Horses I have known been in box over a year has come right.


If you are prepared to nurse- fund-look after the injured. and have a sensible head on your shoulders and know when there is no chance you PTS but if there is a chance to pull through I say go for it.

* See a chance then take it ,together we will make it *

 

[Goldenstar]

When ever I buy a horse I teach it to do stables it's your duty as an owner to to be able to stable a horse it an injury requires it.
I use the first summer to teach them the stable is a good place I learnt this lesson the hard way many years ago when a three year old I part owned damaged a suspensory

 

[Goldenstar]

Sorry IPhone novice during a thunder storm after six months of hell I pulled the plug and pts the co owner was not pleased it was a terrible lesson to learn you must teach them to accept the stable

 

[forestfantasy]

Cuts are not superficial injuries!!

This is exactly what my made is in for. She has cut herself only about an inch and a half over the short pastern. It's nothing you say, just superficial?

She is having to stay in because she is in a pressure bandage to try and stop the bleeding. She cut the artery with her nothing special superficial cut! She also cut through at least one tendon sheath so we are trying desperately to prevent infection. Antibiotics and keeping her in and clean. She can't go out as she must move much because the artery needs to close.

All this from a small, nothing, superfial cut. Sheesh

I don't think anyone would class that as a superficial injury - an artery & tendon sheath!
I was refering to surface wounds & cuts - there are exceptions like yours.

 

[tabithakat64]

Fudge spent 9 months in with a really bad tendon injury, then a further 4 months with pen turnout, had I known this before he was operated on I would have PTS.

He is a very social horse who has lived out most of his life, he was miserable on box rest and dangerous to walk in-hand (we usually use him for small children or novices first hacks just to give you an idea of the difference being in made).

I would never, ever put him through a long period of box rest again, it would be cruel.

One of my other two has coped with a few weeks with no issues what's so ever.

My OAP weaved and box walked constantly until she was allowed to be grazed in hand and walked, I would seriously think before putting her through another extended period of box rest also.

All my had equine company at all times, stable toys, friends horses grooming them over the door, human contact four plus times a day etc

 

[Alphamare]

Thanks forestfantasy
Got bandage change tomorrow hoping to find that the artery is closed up! There is blood seeped through the many layered pressure bandage though! Luckily the artery was only a small one but there was still blood all over the yard and the stable. Bright red it is/was.

Not nice to see! As long as she doesn't infect or carry on bleeding the prognosis is great!