Feet constantly chipping- any advice in management?

[Sussexbythesea]

I’m fairly new to barefoot but have read a lot on here over the years.

He’s a 7yr old Welsh D x Arab x ID x Hanoverian

Not the best photos and from end of June but not got newer ones yet. Hinds have been off since October 2023 and fronts since April 2024 colic surgery. Has been on Progressive earth Pro-hoof platinum and then more recently Farriers Formula due to getting a deal on it but moving back to Pro-hoof probably. This is from field wear, walking to and from field and work in a sand rubber arena. He’s only just restarted ridden work since these pictures were taken. He’s got hoof boots for fronts which I use for hacking now.

Food wise he’s on a scoop of Honey Chop lite and healthy, a mug of Saracen Releve twice a day a supplements include Magic, Omega Ulsoothe, salt and currently the FF twice a day. Approx 9hrs grazing a day, hay at night. Farrier every 5 weeks. He gave me a rasp to take off rough edges but they break up very quickly.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

How long did you have him on supplements before you took his shoes off? It could be that the horn that the supplements are improving hasn't grown out yet.

I might boot to walk in and out of the field, and boot to lunge.

Your supplements are high quality so are probably great but just in case you do decide to switch things up, I use Forage Plus hoof and skin balancer for mine, which has a winter and summer version, and I found it really very good for improved horn quality. It has some linseed in it though, and that sends some for a loop. I also use Red Horse hoof moisturiser which I like a lot.

Also, off topic but what a lovely mix of breeds. I bet he's very pretty!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

How long did you have him on supplements before you took his shoes off? It could be that the horn that the supplements are improving hasn't grown out yet.

I might boot to walk in and out of the field, and boot to lunge.

Your supplements are high quality so are probably great but just in case you do decide to switch things up, I use Forage Plus hoof and skin balancer for mine, which has a winter and summer version, and I found it really very good for improved horn quality. It has some linseed in it though, and that sends some for a loop. I also use Red Horse hoof moisturiser which I like a lot.

Also, off topic but what a lovely mix of breeds. I bet he's very pretty!

Thanks LG. His backs came off shortly after I bought him so no knowledge of what he was on previously. I think he was on Pro-earth Pro balance when I first had him then swapped to the Pro-hoof. He was scoped and treated for ulcers due to challenging behaviour and a mild colic episode. Subsequently had emergency surgery for a colon displacement.

Because of his history I’ve avoided anything potentially heating like linseed. He reacted badly to grass nuts but won’t eat his chaff without the small amount of Releve cubes. We’ve recently turned a corner behaviour wise so I would have to be careful on what I give him. I’ll have a look at the FP spec.

I’d started using a hoof moisturiser but he had a bad slip walking into his stable due to a combo of the old fashioned barn floor and hoof moisturiser so it’s put me off using anything. He’s on part livery during the week so I can’t expect the YM to put boots on and off.

He is pretty if a bit conformationally challenged

 

[LadyGascoyne]

He's very pretty! I do like a gold pony

 

[Gloi]

The farrier seems to be trimming as if to fit a shoe rather than a barefoot trim which is contributing to the chipping walls as they are trying to self trim.

 

[ester]

Rolling the toes will help, it bugs me that farrier doesn’t do this on share pony and he then gets chips.

From the sole pic the side walls look long too but obv not really possible to judge balance but wil result in chipping/self trimming

 

[Sussexbythesea]

The farrier seems to be trimming as if to fit a shoe rather than a barefoot trim which is contributing to the chipping walls as they are trying to self trim.

Could you explain that a bit more please. He’s very supportive of barefoot and has fitted hoof boots for me. There’s not been any foot growth to really trim so he mostly just rounds off the edges. Should he be more actively trimming?

 

[ester]

As an unrelated point are you treating frog clefts?

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Rolling the toes will help, it bugs me that farrier doesn’t do this on share pony and he then gets chips.

From the sole pic the side walls look long too but obv not really possible to judge balance but wil result in chipping/self trimming

Have you got any photos that show what you mean? Thanks

 

[Sussexbythesea]

As an unrelated point are you treating frog clefts?

No - that one looks deep but he doesn’t have any thrush. It was incredibly dry over summer which I’m sure has contributed.

 

[ester]

Generally I find treating a bit prophylatically helps the form of the frog too.

See also mustang roll/bevel. Don’t have any pics to hand atm but for me that’s essentially putting a 45 degree angle on the hoof wall from underneath then rounding it from the top

How To Do a Mustang Roll

We've all heard so much about Mustang Roll for our horses' hooves. What is so great about a nice, clean mustang roll? And why do we want to even do one? I mean, hey - we've never even HEARD of one years ago! (Well, oldsters like myself never heard of it!) So what's the big deal with it? Well...

content.scootboots.com

 

[ester]

Mid transition pics of franks

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Generally I find treating a bit prophylatically helps the form of the frog too.

See also mustang roll/bevel. Don’t have any pics to hand atm but for me that’s essentially putting a 45 degree angle on the hoof wall from underneath then rounding it from the top

How To Do a Mustang Roll

We've all heard so much about Mustang Roll for our horses' hooves. What is so great about a nice, clean mustang roll? And why do we want to even do one? I mean, hey - we've never even HEARD of one years ago! (Well, oldsters like myself never heard of it!) So what's the big deal with it? Well...

content.scootboots.com

Thanks - what sort of treatment do you think would benefit the frog? I probably need to get more photos now that it’s turned wet again to see if they now look different.

 

[paddy555]

Could you explain that a bit more please. He’s very supportive of barefoot and has fitted hoof boots for me. There’s not been any foot growth to really trim so he mostly just rounds off the edges. Should he be more actively trimming?

it may be easier to comment if you could post current pics. Can you post a side view with the camera on the ground and also a sole one with the sole scrubbed out with a wire brush and the colateral grooves and central sulchus thoroughly cleaned out so it is possible to see what is going on. I expect a lot of the retained sole in your pics has come out now, The heels appear to be running forward. If you compare your pic of the white foot and the white foot of Ester's above you can see the difference where the heel is.
Clean the central sulchus with cotton wool pushed in with a hoof pick before taking a pic.
Also can you give the date of the last trim when you post pics to see where you are in the trimming cycle.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

it may be easier to comment if you could post current pics. Can you post a side view with the camera on the ground and also a sole one with the sole scrubbed out with a wire brush and the colateral grooves and central sulchus thoroughly cleaned out so it is possible to see what is going on. I expect a lot of the retained sole in your pics has come out now, The heels appear to be running forward. If you compare your pic of the white foot and the white foot of Ester's above you can see the difference where the heel is.
Clean the central sulchus with cotton wool pushed in with a hoof pick before taking a pic.
Also can you give the date of the last trim when you post pics to see where you are in the trimming cycle.

I’ll try and get better ones. He’s next due on the 23rd September is it better to show pics before or after trim- or maybe both?

 

[paddy555]

I’ll try and get better ones. He’s next due on the 23rd September is it better to show pics before or after trim- or maybe both?

it would probably be better to put some up now. People can then suggest areas of improvement. You will then have time to read about these and discuss with your farrier. Then pics after would give some idea of how your farrier is encouraging your feet to improve.

 

[ester]

I love it when retained sole wants to come off

For frogs I'm finding this one easier to use than the red horse version https://www.horseleads.co.uk/product-page/hoof-guard-cavity-filler
I usually spray with https://www.horseleads.co.uk/product-page/hoof-spray-sole-frog-cleanser then pack.

 

[Red-1]

I'm not a hoof pro but have trimmed various of my own for years, including hinting and competing affiliated.

I think the Progressive Earth Pro Hoof supplements are great. I use the Pro as I think it actually works out cheaper in the long run.

My horse's feet look a lot like yours if I allow the wall to hit the floor. They have a little chip then that is levered back to make a big chip. I therefore do a very distinct bevel on the hoof, so the actual outer wall is way higher than the floor. I bevel back maybe 2/3 of the wall, leaving approx 1/3 of the wall intact. This way, he has just been through the dry summer, been on twice weekly hunt rides, just come back from a camp where we did a long hack to the beach and 3 x XC sessions, and there are absolutely no chips.

I would make the change slowly, but get him off the very outer wall immediately, like ester's photos.

The frog is also very important to be clean. I don't apply much gunk to them, but rather keep the cleft of the frog wide and at 45 degrees, I do use a knife for this. If you get the angle right, they seem to stay open for a long time before needing a trim again. I only tidy up the angles of the frog, never take any off the actual depth.

 

[Highmileagereindeer]

There looks to be thrush in the cleft of the frog, and between the heel bulbs. Soaking the foot in a Dettol solution for ten minutes per day will go a long way towards bashing the thrush bugs. The wear pattern on the sole appears to indicate weight bearing in the centre of the foot, and not as much at the heel. If you can get the heels to open and start to drop, then over the next few months, the frog will move into it's correct position and proper movement should follow. Please do not allow your farrier to trim the foot into a 'pretty foot' but take four to six months to slowly transition, and rasp just enough to round off the chips, and keep the heels from overgrowing. Good luck!

 

[paddy555]

I'm not the best with photos but does anyone else wonder if the farrier has trimmed the white foot from the top and taken wall off?

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I'm not the best with photos but does anyone else wonder if the farrier has trimmed the white foot from the top and taken wall off?

I don’t think he has I did have to rasp off some sticking out sharp edges which maybe what you are seeing? I’m not particularly dexterous with a rasp.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

There looks to be thrush in the cleft of the frog, and between the heel bulbs. Soaking the foot in a Dettol solution for ten minutes per day will go a long way towards bashing the thrush bugs. The wear pattern on the sole appears to indicate weight bearing in the centre of the foot, and not as much at the heel. If you can get the heels to open and start to drop, then over the next few months, the frog will move into it's correct position and proper movement should follow. Please do not allow your farrier to trim the foot into a 'pretty foot' but take four to six months to slowly transition, and rasp just enough to round off the chips, and keep the heels from overgrowing. Good luck!

I don’t think he has thrush but I will double check. He’s not had any shoes on for over a year so I was sort of expecting them to be a lot better by now.

 

[Nocturnal]

I’m also not an expert, but the top 2/3 of his hoof wall looks to have an odd quality. Is he struggling metabolically?

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I’m also not an expert, but the top 2/3 of his hoof wall looks to have an odd quality. Is he struggling metabolically?

Yes I’ve thought that but he doesn’t have any signs of anything metabolic going on afaik.

 

[paddy555]

I don’t think he has I did have to rasp off some sticking out sharp edges which maybe what you are seeing? I’m not particularly dexterous with a rasp.

OK fine, that would explain the rasp marks. We would normally roll the foot from underneath (probably every few days) just to keep the feet rolled round, smooth and therefore unlikely to chip. Think of an emery board on your own nails. I always leave the hoof wall untouched, that is the protection and the strength. Some farriers are keen to rasp the wall to make it look pretty, hopefully yours doesn't. If you are struggling a bit with a rasp then maybe a sanding block (about a fiver B& Q) or even a radius rasp may be easier to use on a frequent basis. If your farrier is coming every 5 weeks then all you are trying to do is keep the feet rounded. You don't seem to be having to deal with massive amounts of growth. Just a thought

Did your farrier show you how to use your rasp?

I'm afraid that just about every barefoot person on here will be screaming thrush based on your 3rd pic I expect your frogs may have shed by now.

when you are taking your pics lay your rasp/or a ruler across the heels (holding the foot up) is the frog underneath the ruler ie a gap between it and the ruler even a slight one or does the ruler see saw on the frog? That would be useful to know. It is always difficult with pics rather than the real thing.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

It was a bit hectic in yard this evening so I quickly had to get these so hope they’re good enough.

Right fore.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Right hind.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Left fore.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Left hind

 

[Red-1]

I know they look pretty shocking, but I would not despair yet. Mine would look poor if I didn't regularly trim. When he was transitioning, that would have been pretty much every single day. I would smooth out the walls, and make sure the very outer wall was not touching the floor. I would ensure that there were no crevices, smoothing them off.

I think it pretty shocking of your farrier has been presented with this before and has not offered better advice.

There are so many crevices that there will be plentiful bacteria.

If the horse is a Connie, I would test for HWSD, it is genetic. You send off a hair/follicle sample. HWSD is serious, so needs to be ruled out.

If that comes back clear, then I would rasp every single day. Just a shade. I would also soak in CleanTrax, using the correct boot, and bandaging afterwards in plastic, as per the instructions.

I have found that Hoof Doctor https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083ZL9LDC?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2 is an excellent daily treatment. I would wash, dry and apply after field time, and dry scrub and apply before turnout. When I used it, there was a whole lot of improvement after just a week. Once there crevices are smooth, then no topical application would be necessary.

If the horse is sound, I would walk in hand on the road, whatever he is comfortable to do. It stimulates growth. It also means it will re-shape more quickly. I would start with just 100yds (as in 50yds out and 50 yds back) and see how it goes. My rule was that on the 2nd ouchy step, we'd return. The ouchy step would be a stone or whatever. We can now trot down hard core tracks without a flinch, but initially there would be ouchy steps after 100 yds. It took time to build up the strength; strength came with the re-modelling and keeping the hoof trimmed daily. Other than the 100 yds initially, the horse would be on softer, forgiving surfaces. Now, they are both strong, their daily turnout includes a hard core track, so they walk daily on that, but initially that would have been too much.