Feet improvements and a puzzle.

[ycbm]

OK, Ludo moved to livery just over 2 months ago. He's out 16 hours on a scalped paddock with haylage to compensate for lack of grass. I switched him to 1kg of Agrobs Wiesencobs 3 weeks ago, with added D&H hedgerow herbs because I felt his diet lacked variety. He gets copper, zinc, magnesium, yeast, he won't eat much salt.

He is trimmed only to remove cracks and sharp edges.

He's had a lot more work on abrasive sandy surfaces, increased gradually not suddenly. Growth is tighter, his feet are about half an inch smaller and all the better for that.

He has had several cosmetic cracks for 5 years, and they have disappeared, suggesting improved balance/less stresses.

His feet have lost some one sided flaring behind and inside toe growth on the front and have never looked more symmetric.

His frogs have widened.

But he's never been more footy on stones and I am having to boot him up to hack.

Ideas on a postcard of what to do now? Grazing and forage can't be changed without moving and that isn't feasible short term nor something I would consider (to avoid boots) until spring '23.
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[stangs]

Appreciate that you can't change the haylage, but could you get it tested? You'd be able to supplement more precisely then, if that's the issue.

 

[ycbm]

Appreciate that you can't change the haylage, but could you get it tested? You'd be able to supplement more precisely then, if that's the issue.

Yes that would be easy, thanks for the suggestion.
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[tda]

I suppose the only thing to change is the weisencobs? I don't know what the ingredients are
Edited to add, meadow grasses and herbs so nothing that could affect the feet
Nice to see the changes that come about by plenty work on appropriate surfaces isn't it

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Rather than change in diet could the abrasive sand be the culprit?

 

[SEL]

Are his feet rock solid at the moment? I've got one usually rock crunching at this stage in her trim cycle needing boots and the farrier thinks it's because her hoof is so dry it's not expanding. He's suggested trying nappies for a few days to see if it softens and gives some relief.

For some reason she hasn't grown her usual flare either so we were wondering whether that's because they're like iron at the moment

 

[Gloi]

See if a couple of coats of Hoof Armour helps. It will cut down on the abrasion.

 

[ycbm]

Rather than change in diet could the abrasive sand be the culprit?

Yes but I can't take it away ? and his soles have never looked stronger, but they are more sensitive ?

 

[ester]

The sand would be my guess too at this point.

 

[ycbm]

See if a couple of coats of Hoof Armour helps. It will cut down on the abrasion.

I have started formaldehyde tonight, I'll up to armour if no result.
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[ycbm]

The sand would be my guess too at this point.

Boot for a while and try again? That's my current plan.

 

[ycbm]

Are his feet rock solid at the moment? I've got one usually rock crunching at this stage in her trim cycle needing boots and the farrier thinks it's because her hoof is so dry it's not expanding. He's suggested trying nappies for a few days to see if it softens and gives some relief.

For some reason she hasn't grown her usual flare either so we were wondering whether that's because they're like iron at the moment

Absolute rocks! The ground is so well draining because the whole area is on sand, and his feet are hard as rock. Very interesting suggestion, thank you!
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[Surbie]

Perhaps it's a combination of things? Mine has gone a little footy at the moment and his feet are so hard I am struggling to rasp.
I was also wondering about the wiesencobs. They are 17% combined starch and sugars, so if that's higher than he's used to, together with the haylage, could that be adding to the other factors to create sensitivity?

 

[ycbm]

I had no idea that the wiesencobs were that high in carbs!
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[Surbie]

On their website they list composition as Starch 1.18%, Sugar 9.57%, Fructans 6.25%. I might be getting things mixed up, but I always thought since fructans are sugars I should include them in the overall number, even if they are listed separately on the composition table. Apols if this isn't right.

 

[paddy555]

I can't see you have mentioned anywhere what you are doing about hydration of the feet. He seems to be grazing on a scalped paddock which presumably means little grass and therefore very little dew, is working on sand which wicks moisture from the feet and is perhaps? on shavings (also dry) when he is in his bed.

When you ride through streams do you let him stand in them for 10 minutes or are you hosing each day or alternatively putting soaking boots on?

ETA
this quote is taken from Rockfoots FB page.( I appreciate you don't put oil and cream on but left that bit for anyone else who reads your thread.)
1976, hottest summer I ever knew, I was advising all my clients to soak their horses's feet in water or stand in mud for 20 minutes a day. NO OILS OR CREAMS, just water and a wire brush.
If you clog up the periople the foot thinks it's wet and you will possibly get cracked feet!

 

[Boulty]

Knowing where you are would highly suspect the haylage. It helped tip my sensitive Welshie to the brink of laminitis when I fed it at a camp there (I think the organisers were really unkeen on us bringing our own, for some reason) Would second getting it tested to see if there's anything you can do to balance & to check sugar & starch. Although if he's not used to so much sand the abrasion from that may not be helping either.

 

[Gloi]

I have started formaldehyde tonight, I'll up to armour if no result.
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I've been using hoof armor this summer and am only using boots in front for long rides. 75% happy with it. If he didn't have wonky action on one leg that wears one side down when going faster than walk on roads I'd get away without boots.

 

[Tiddlypom]

According to Agrobs the Wiesencobs are Starch 1.18 %, Sugar 9.57 %.

https://www.agrobs.de/en/wiesencobsc2ae-p3341/

 

[Fieldlife]

Could the small amounts of grass in scalped paddock be high sugar and stressed?

Was he on Haylage before? The acidity / richness can make some horses footy. Don’t think Haylage tends to test as high sugar as it’s fermented.

Hoof armor worth trying, I find it helpful.

Does he have enough salt in his diet? Upping is cheap experiment. Note you say won’t eat much - some in every feed, little in water, can spray Haylage with salt water. I add electrolytes too in summer (more palatable).

 

[ycbm]

I can't see you have mentioned anywhere what you are doing about hydration of the feet. He seems to be grazing on a scalped paddock which presumably means little grass and therefore very little dew, is working on sand which wicks moisture from the feet and is perhaps? on shavings (also dry) when he is in his bed.

When you ride through streams do you let him stand in them for 10 minutes or are you hosing each day or alternatively putting soaking boots on?

ETA
this quote is taken from Rockfoots FB page.( I appreciate you don't put oil and cream on but left that bit for anyone else who reads your thread.)
1976, hottest summer I ever knew, I was advising all my clients to soak their horses's feet in water or stand in mud for 20 minutes a day. NO OILS OR CREAMS, just water and a wire brush.
If you clog up the periople the foot thinks it's wet and you will possibly get cracked feet!

Great thought Paddy. No I haven't been hydrating his feet. But I have now started riding him in boots and make a point of riding through water for training, so the rest of the ride he is getting his feet soaked quite a bit. I'll start watering his feet in the boots before I set out on a ride.

 

[ycbm]

Knowing where you are would highly suspect the haylage.

So would I but it's the same haylage he had when I kept him at home and he had no problems with it. Good thought though.

Although if he's not used to so much sand the abrasion from that may not be helping either

The wierd thing is that his feet have never looked or felt stronger.
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