fFarriers, dentists, vets etc hitting your horse ?

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Hoof_Prints

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I have been left feeling quite uneasy after today. My young connie gelding had his shoes done today, and halfway through trimming one of his feet he looked round towards me and lost his balance so pulled his hoof away from the farrier (I didn't get chance to point his head in the right direction before it happened), so my farrier whacked him hard and shouted at him. Now, the pony is normally very calm and doesn't care what you do with him, but he is wary of having his shoes done, doesn't act up but you can tell he'd rather be elsewhere ! My pony was obviously frightened by I and shyed away from him, at which point my farrier started justifying what he'd done saying the pony was being aggressive :/ I told him that he doesn't respond well to that sort of treatment and I did remind him before he started that the pony will behave if you are calm with him.

So after he left, I had a bit of a rant at my mum who then told me that when he had his teeth done (first time the poor thing had ever had his mouth clamped open and electrically rasped), he pulled back when his upper teeth were done so the chap whipped him around the head with the leather lead on the headcollar :( apparently she'd already told me this but I must have misheard or forgotten !

does anyone else experience this? I have highly recommended professionals out who are meant to work with horses every day, and they seem to think this is effective and acceptable practise! Lucky the pony is so tolerant, my other gelding would be traumatised by that. Luckily the vet was very gentle with him and he behaved perfectly..
 
If that happened to my ponies, it would be the last time I used that person. Not acceptable behaviour.

I am lucky farrier has been so good and patient with youngsters they stand for him now without me holding them.
 
If you have other people handling your horse you need to ensure that you either totally trust both the handler and horse or you need to be there yourself - especially if it is the first time. It is not up to the farrier/dentist to ensure your horse is safe to handle - it is up to you, and these professionals will be lot calmer if the owner is around to help out
 
When I was 18 and a groom in north America I was unfortunate enough to meet two abusive farriers. One walloped a young horse in the belly with a rasp when he lost his balance, then threw her entire tool kit against the wall in front of his head. The second hit a horse to make it trot up and then verbally abused and humiliated me in front of about 20 people when I tried to calm the horse. (later found he beat his wife, kids and dogs too). I was horrified by both.

My vet and Farrier are proper horse people, if my horse needed discipline and I wasn't there I would trust them to correct him without going over the top or scaring him.
 
If my farrier thought it was necessary to give my 3yr old a slap I think I would accept it! but my farrier is very laid back and would only do some like that if he really was being a t w a t but I would make sure that I was in a position to tell the horse off before the farrier had to do it! there is often miss understandings and im sure the pony is fine! another will hurt him more than the farrier could!

the person doing his teeth on the other hand, I do not think its acceptable to smack the horse around the head, with anything, let alone leather! my boy has his teeth done for the first time this year and he was sedated as I didn't want his first time to be a bad experience and I fully expected him to pee about, because he's young and can me impatient

so just need to make each experience as easy for them as you can!!

im sure he's fine though!
 
my farrier hasn't hit any of my horses but i have on his behalf! big girl kept snatching her hind leg off him , tried to kick him and hopped/dragged him halfway across the yard with him holding her leg, i asked him to avert his eyes for a second and smacked her hard on her neck and growled some heartfelt obscenities at her, she then stood and offered her leg for him. i know her well enough to know when she is taking the pee, she was taking the pee that day.

you say about them being professionals but in their defence they are there to do a job and should be able to do it without being kicked ,dragged, bitten or otherwise. everyone always blames the farrier/dentist who see's the horse every 8 weeks at most, but who is it that handles the horse daily and is ultimately responsible for their behaviour? ;)
 
If it is justifiable I.e actually looks like it will kick, bit, or being naughty...then that is fine....however I am normally there and will correct before anyone else has the chance to! But I would not expect my horse to be told off for falling over!

Perhaps your farrier couldn't see what the horse was doing and was thinking that it was turning to bit him? In that situation you generally act before you think!

I also would never use a dentist who uses power tools, doesn't matter just how highly recommended they are! They can cause awful blisters on the gums...... It was very wrong of the dentist to tell him off for lifting his head...perhaps he had caught him in the side of the mouth!
 
My mares a big girl and I agree she should be reminded of her manners if need be, however I would not standby and allow any professional to hurt her out of anger or irritibility, I have thrown vets off the yard before to stop this and my farrier has only ever slapped her once but as she tried to boot him I felt it was justified as I would have done the same, whether people are professionals or not if they attempt to do something you wouldn't they should be stopped
 
I wouldn't expect that from a farrier or dentist at al. We have had our farrier for over 20 years and, yes sometimes he has raised his voice and on occasion maybe shoved the horse over or something but never hit them. Well, except once when he caught the donkey across the nose with the metal rasp! BUT, in his defence the donkey could be a little sod and was sooo strong. Funnily, after that one time of getting a bit of a sore nose, the donkey never mucked about again and actuals absolutely loved the farrier to the extent we'd let him wander round when farrier was doing the other horses and he would just hang around the farrier and follow him etc. It was funny.

Had a new dentist last year as well - never had one with electric tools. My 4 yo had seen our other (traditional) dentist the previous year and really wasn't happy. He is a 16.2hh opinionated boy. This dentist was calm, firm, put a gag in (horse has never had a gag) and I was stunned how well behaved my horse was considering the trauma we'd had the year before with the other guy for whom normally all our horses are so calm and relaxed.

So, no, no dentist should need to do what yours did. My youngster is one to 'speak his mind' as it were but, with confident, firm and fair handling they generally are put at ease and do behave. This is how I would expect a professional to be with my horse.
 
It seems to be a bit of a cultural thing that they should MAKE them stand. I had this issue with my horse when I was getting my boy clipped. The lady insisted I made him stand and behave, but I was like... look for goodness sake. Let me get him some treats. Personally I don't think I've failed because I use bribery. He's not a child! I think i'm reducing his anxiety and making the experience a more enjoyable one. I mean, he doesn't want half his nice warm jacket shaving off does he!
 
Hmm not hitting etc I wouldn't put up with but my farrier has hollered at my lad a couple of times (in over a year of shoeing him so nothing massive) he fidgets and prats about when he gets bored but is really just testing people to see what he can get away with! The minute he's had loud 'stand up!' he's stopped, I'd defo draw the line at that not put up with a horse getting walloped especially around the head! A previous farrier I used was rough and had a bit of a reputation for having a short temper (unbeknownst to me).. He was promptly told where to go after leaving horse hopping lame..
 
Would you let someone hit your kids ? ...... Yes horses are big and can do damage if theyre out of control so you need to make sure they behave, if youre not able to be there, make sure someone you trust is there, youre their Advocate, they cant speak,and they can be horribly abused no matter what size they are, by all manner of people who will claim they deserve it if youre uncomfortable do something about it
 
TandD said:
If it is justifiable I.e actually looks like it will kick, bit, or being naughty...then that is fine....however I am normally there and will correct before anyone else has the chance to! But I would not expect my horse to be told off for falling over!
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This. My farrier once walloped a horse I had on loan. He did it once, she had been messing him around and after that she stopped. I was in total agreement with him, plus he was worth his weight in gold and was very patient.

If the horse was just stood or lost its balance etc then I think it's totally unacceptable. And even if it was a reason I find "acceptable" I hate horses being hit in the head.
 
My vet/farrier/dentist have never had to hit any of my horses because I've done that job beforehand and they all have manners. If they are under the horse and feel the need to remind them then I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with them reprimanding the horse, in fact I'd be mortified if a horse of mine misbehaved. It is their back/hand/foot/livelihood and I would not tolerate 500kg of horse mucking about if it was me. Absolute nightmare to have some fluffy owner waving treats about when the darn thing needed proper discipline.
 
Thanks for the replies. Yes I agree in the situation of danger and if the horse was obviously going to cause some harm I would fully understand and support someone using means to avoid getting hurt, however it was quite clear the pony just lost balance. As I am told, the dentist (who is highly respected in my area and hard to get a slot with!) actually whipped him so hard, the end of the rope flicked back at him on the second lash out (yes he did it twice) and left a very sore mark on his arm that he had to put cold water on.

All of my horses are well behaved, but the dentist insists on being in the stable on his own with just him and his assistant so it's hard to intervene. Poor pony had only been in the country a day but as the dentist was coming and we couldn't book him for another few months it was best to get it done then.

I have one a few occasions gave the horses a smack for taking the P but never round the head and never in a situation where they are nervous or frightened. I would have thought someone who's career is spent around horses, and many different ones at that- would be able to pick up on a little equine behaviour ! Not the same farrier but I have seen one (who did get told where to go by the people who used him) speak softly and try to calm down the fidgety 17hh hunter he was shoeing, then shout and terrify a young 13hh pony that stumbled!
 
If farrier vet or dentist hit one of my horses good luck to them he fights back and I mean really fights back. But i put a lot of work into my horses to make them safe round these people the best i can But will not let anyone hit this certain horse and im allways there with all my horses if i don't think its right I will sure as hell tell dentist farrier vet.
 
Funny enough I have been thinking this recently. My lad was barefoot and has been for two years, I recently had shoes put on as the amount of road work we were doing was making him sore, and he was sliding from behind before of the gravel and stones on the road were hurting him. Anyway, had a farrier out, who I know well from using previously. I explained that my lad was stiff from behind and was in fact on equiflex for possible arthritis in his hocks and fetlock and struggled with being hoof picked (hind feet). He done his front feet and then went onto do the back feet. I didn't see what my lad done, who is so sensitive and gentle, but my farrier got the end of his hammer and hit him hard in the guts and told him off for snatching his hoof away. He done it again on the other foot. I stood there feeling physically sick and hating it but, didn't have the guts to say anything, I truly wish I had done. If I had told him to piss off, he would have had shoes half on and half off so, thought I would stay quiet and just get the job done. But, then ended up booking him in for another visit in 7 weeks time because I was too bloody polite and shy to say what I was actually feeling in that you can piss off and I never want to see you again.
 
If it was a loss of temper I wouldnt be impressed
If it was a reaction to a frightening or even just a sudden fright I would forgive it, when people get scared they react in different ways and its not abnormal to strike out

If I wasnt there I would give the person the benefit of the doubt especially if I had left them to work largely alone - if you cant be there to supervise things you have to accept that you wont always get a factual account of the situation.
 
exracehorse said:
If I had told him to piss off, he would have had shoes half on and half off so, thought I would stay quiet and just get the job done. But, then ended up booking him in for another visit in 7 weeks time because I was too bloody polite and shy to say what I was actually feeling in that you can piss off and I never want to see you again.
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Well I hope that you have rung and cancelled since then!

I have no problem with the farrier slapping a horse, or hitting it on its rump with the rasp, if the horse is playing up enough to be dangerous but I wouldn't use any professional who hit a horse, or donkey, round the head. Our vet came to the 3 yr old with a sore foot, the other day. She didn't want him to touch it it. Did he hit her?- no! He did speak sharply to her when she stood on her back legs, then sedated her - far more effective, imo.
 
Moobucket said:
It seems to be a bit of a cultural thing that they should MAKE them stand. I had this issue with my horse when I was getting my boy clipped. The lady insisted I made him stand and behave, but I was like... look for goodness sake. Let me get him some treats. Personally I don't think I've failed because I use bribery. He's not a child! I think i'm reducing his anxiety and making the experience a more enjoyable one. I mean, he doesn't want half his nice warm jacket shaving off does he!
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I think you have more than failed if you use treats to get your animal to behave, am sorry to say! Would you do the same with your child every time they don't want to do something? Brat springs to mind!!
I expect my horses to stand quietly and safely for any professional who enters into an agreement with me to do a job required in law in order for my horses to have their welfare fully catered for. If they don't, I have failed in my role as an owner,with only a few exceptions such as unforeseen situations (eg hot air balloon landing nearby,wasp buzzing close to the horse). The horses are expected to stand still and behave for however long it takes, without biting, kicking or fidgeting.
Sometimes, horses do unexpected things- they do not think like a human, in spite of attempts to personify them.
My mare recently underwent sarcoid treatment, with Liverpool cream. It is not pleasant .She was sedated, I was holding a leg up but she still managed to aim a very crafty, very quick, cow kick at my vet, narrowly missing him. He gave her a boot. She could have ended his career had she contacted with him. It was very close to his head.
I would never tolerate anyone continually hitting or kicking or whatever my horse, but in the instance above it was justified, and was just the one kick.
In my experience, professionals rarely discipline a horse unless it is essential, and the owner isn't going to- or its a jerk reaction to a shock behavior by the horse. The professional is not going to want to endanger himself,any more than endanger the horse, and if the owner wont discipline the horse, the professional has the right to refuse to treat it.
 
There was a mare at my old yard who's owner couldn't get down when she was due to have the farrier so I offered to be there for her as was not busy.

The mare was quite obviously scared and not just playing up. Farrier hit her when she shyed away from him, causing her to panic, pull back and snap the bailing twine. I went to catch he but farrier beat me to it, caught her and proceeded to smack her round the head with his file.

I have never been so appalled in my life and still to this day cannot forgive myself for saying absolutely nothing at the time. I was too shocked at what I had seen!

Luckily I moved yards not long after and changed farrier. Had I not have moved yards though there was no way he was doing my horse again.
 
Both my farrier and dentist are good, my last farrier only got sacked because he wouldn't answer his phone or commit to pre arranging appointments, brilliant farrier though, although he would insist on putting my arthritic mare's hind feet on the stand to rasp, making her uncomfortable, the new farrier rested her hinds on his knee to rasp, anyone who deals with my horses knows to use their voice if they need correcting, as for treats, my 3yr old newly started cob had a huge fright when his rider brushed his bum when mounting, resulting in a huge bucking fit, all summer we have worked with him but he is still not comfortable being mounted, for now, we are giving him sugar free mints while being mounted and another when our rider is on, giving him happy memories of being mounted, i don't give my lot treats, but this method is working for this boy who used to tremble when being tacked up, treats can be decreased at any time, my point is treats can have their uses.
 
Hi just want to say that it's a pet hate of farriers when owners allow their horses to look around and lose their balance, doesn't excuse loss of temper but it's dangerous enough without horses swaying about and moving.
 
Not acceptable in my opinion, I mean what does hitting a nervous horse actually achieve?

Had a farrier out to my first horse who had been mistreated, he came without shoes so I don't know if he had even been shod before, and he wouldn't stand (he was terrified!!) so she smacked him round the head. Never had her out again. New farrier took a few sessions to build his confidence, and after that he was 100% perfect to shoe. In his retirement the farrier would trim his feet loose in the field, he didn't even need a headcollar on!!

I do believe though that the owner should instil basic manners in the horse to make the farrier/dentist/vet's job easier. If it won't stand still when tied up in day to day life, what do you expect when it has it's feet done??
 
Sometimes judgement is needed- if the horse purposefully struck out at the farrier I wouldn't condone them reacting with a smack in response at all.

But if a farrier or vet, or anyone, hit one of ours without justification they wouldn't be coming back. If they hit Reg, they'd probably be lucky to leave in one piece.
 
Just wanted to reply to say OMG if the person doing the teeth had behaved that way with one if my horses I wouldn't be responsible for my actions. You should name and shame. Appalling.
 
While I agree wholeheartedly that it is not the farrier/dentist/vet's job to train your horse and every effort should be made by the owner to prepare the horse for treatment, I also believe that anyone who is any good at their job shouldn't have to resort to violence to 'make a horse behave'.

I have no use for farriers any more (the last one did hit my horse and was sent packing) but my dentist and vets are proper horse people and can calm a horse just by their presence.
 
My horse is quite nervy to begin with but he's perfect with the farrier and vet (only needs sedated for the dentist) and will fall asleep as you see to him! I've had one farrier yell and hit him when he moved away (because the other horse standing beside him left and he gets himself attached) and he was quickly told off - not only by me but my horse since he gets himself in a right panic when yelled at! Quickly sent packing...
 
My horses have always been good for the farrier/dentist etc except for 2 occasions. One horse hated a bad tempered farrier and would act up with him. I caught the farrier going to hit my horse with a hammer. The horse was too quick and head butted him full force and got him on the cheek with the buckle of the headcollar, almost knocking the farrier out. Well I've never been so delighted of my horses misbehaviour. This horse stands so quietly for other farriers that he doesn't even need to be held or tied up. My horse is obviously a good judge of character. I never used that farrier again.

Another of my horses acted up for a gruff dentist. This particular horse is a saint and will not act up for anyone, or any other dentist. The dentist started getting increasingly rough with him. I'm thinking its not my horses fault you just have a bad way with horses. I never used him either.

I prefer to be the one dishing out 'punishment' to my horses if necessary, as I know the horses well enough to know if they are being bold or are nervous/in pain.
 
Cortez said:
My vet/farrier/dentist have never had to hit any of my horses because I've done that job beforehand and they all have manners. If they are under the horse and feel the need to remind them then I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with them reprimanding the horse, in fact I'd be mortified if a horse of mine misbehaved. It is their back/hand/foot/livelihood and I would not tolerate 500kg of horse mucking about if it was me. Absolute nightmare to have some fluffy owner waving treats about when the darn thing needed proper discipline.
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Could not agree more!
 
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