FFS, I am going mad or...

I do see the point, of course you can't tar everyone with the same brush. And that was the point of my post at the end of the original thread.


But there is a huge difference between law abiding gypsies and the type of people we were discussing. In life, in conversation, it's entirely natural and normal to describe a person by looks or race.

We get lots of 'chavs are scum' type of comments on here, surely yhat is the same then? referring to a group of people who live and dress a certain way? Isnt that ignorance too? It's saying that everyone who lives that way or dresses that way is vermin... which may be just as offensive to someone who happens to live in a council house and likes Burberry..

and no, I'm not being 'funny', I'm being serious....

And FWIW my son's friends are *don't know what to say because am scared of being accused of being racist* who box and have a field full of ponies, actually a quite well known and nice family... and no, i wouldnt refer to them as what was said before, because they're not...
 
Skewbald, you've confused me now. Is Gy*o a racist word the same as N...... or not in you opinion? Even if there's no intent? And is the P word which we cannot mention therefore different from this in your view? As i count gy*o as an abbreviation and to mean a certain type of traveller when i use it, but the p word which we cannot mention as an insult to mean criminals of no fixed abode. for example i see the p word as an insult, but the g word as just a name.

I don't know, maybe i have traveller based racism routed into the heart of me, even though i have never been racist/sexist/ageist etc to any other member/s of society my whole life.

Ah this whole thing is confusing me, i'm off shopping. (ps i blooming knew traveller had 2 l's- blooming firefox had me spelling it wrong all night last night!
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)
 
Not to everyone though. That's the problem.

FWIW I was totally unaware that Irish Travellers existed. Don't get many down this way I suppose.

Is there such a thing as an Irish Gypsy too?
 
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Is the word Tramp still allowed?

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Nah i would say not. In fact i think we are just not allowed to talk about a 'group' of people, or use any term which describes a whole group. That's my plan from now on. In fact i may stop posting about anything like that no matter what happens and just advertise fluffy kittens instead to vent my frustration.

Democracy...
 
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Not to everyone though. That's the problem.

FWIW I was totally unaware that Irish Travellers existed. Don't get many down this way I suppose.

Is there such a thing as an Irish Gypsy too?

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not an expert by any means so i may be wrong, but i think Irish Gypsy is what the travellers are referred to sometimes, rather than there being a seperate race.
 
Has everyone forgotten a rather wonderful film by Guy Richie called Snatch, featuring the rather lovely Brad Pitt playing a so called racist termed person, who lived with other racist termed people and potrayed that bad things that these racist termed people are apparently renowned for.

I don't recall Guy Richie getting into any trouble over it? I am sure Mr Pitt would not have agreed to it either if he felt it was racists?

I think there is a clear divide between the G word and the P word, which, personally I never use either, except when describing my beautiful Vanner Cob. I am not condoning the use of either word in any context at all but it seems that on a public level these terms are being used - without casuing such massive issues or causing posts to be deleted

Just thought I would throw a rather large and gorgeous (Mmmm Brad Pitt) spanner into the works!!
 
I always assumed that a Traveller (Irish or otherwise) were different to Gypsies (Irish or otherwise).

From what Aru was saying last night they have both over there, although less of the former and more of the latter, as i think we do over here. That is if one if the more traditional romany types, and one is travellers who cause trouble and crime.
 
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Well maybe people need to realise that the connotations of the word pikey are different to different people? To me, and many others, it's racist and refers to Irish Travellers derogatively.

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So its a personal thing and not in any way related to the word but purely related to what you assume the word to mean.... Ahhhh now I get it
 
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I really don't get where its against Irish Travellers... Can you point me to a specific website or piece of legislation that states this?

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Pikey is 'officially' racially abusive language. Maybe do a google search or similar if you want.
 
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Pikey is not a race.... Romany is
Indian is, English is, Scottish is but Pikey is slang word not a race of people...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is kind of what I am getting at. If I just decide that calling someone a numbskull is insulting to people from Coventry (like me) does that make it so?

What I'm asking is WHY is pikey about Irish Travellers?

My Great Uncle's nickname was Ni**er, God bless him! He wasn't black, mind you
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I think of a Gypsy as going back many, many generations.

Travellers I would think of as two or three generations.

Don't know about the parameters though.

That is just the impression I get from people I have met.
 
I don't know! I don't even know if 'traveller' is an acceptable word judging by what someone said last night about it not being the 1800's anymore... erm ok then...

I know what we use where i live, and i know what is and isnt seen as a racist word in my area... but i guess it's different everywhere and that's why there is a problem. Where as racist words for asian people or black people are more or less universally racist/not i think. I know the odd people use the N word in a non-racist way, but not many of them.
 
From the Cambrige English Dictionary


gypsy noun
(UK also
gipsy
) /ˈdʒɪp.si/ n [C]
(also
Romany
)
a member of a race of people originally from northern India who typically used to travel from place to place, and now live especially in Europe and North America..



traveller noun
(US usually
traveler
) /ˈtræv.əl.ər/, /-lər/US pronunciation symbol/-əl.ɚ/ n [C]
•
someone who travels


New Age traveller noun
n [C] UK
someone who lives in a vehicle and has no permanent home or job, refusing to accept their society's normal ideas and ways of living

No mention of Pikey in the dictionary
 
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Oh, and if it wasn't racially abusive then i doubt HHO would take the time to delete all the posts that contain it..

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ooh I am still struggling.

'officially racist language' - who decides? (genuine question) and where does it say so?
How can it be if someone says it to mean something else.
I mean, take Corporal Jones on Dad's Army, he's always saying 'come along, Pikey' and he means something else completely

Mind you, he's not a good example, as he also says 'they don't like it up 'em, them fuzzy wuzzies' which will now probably get this thread deleted too.

I heart Corporal Jones
laugh.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
From the Cambrige English Dictionary


gypsy noun
(UK also
gipsy
) /ˈdʒɪp.si/ n [C]
(also
Romany
)
a member of a race of people originally from northern India who typically used to travel from place to place, and now live especially in Europe and North America..



traveller noun
(US usually
traveler
) /ˈtræv.əl.ər/, /-lər/US pronunciation symbol/-əl.ɚ/ n [C]
•
someone who travels


New Age traveller noun
n [C] UK
someone who lives in a vehicle and has no permanent home or job, refusing to accept their society's normal ideas and ways of living

No mention of Pikey in the dictionary

[/ QUOTE ]


...what?! Don't understand what you're getting at there, at all.
confused.gif
 
I do agree about Pikey (hope i don't get told off for using it, i'm using it purely for illustrative purposes!) as i have always thought of it like the Snatch film- Irish travellers. But then again, i have always used g**o with no problems until now, and have associated it with specifically the type of English travellers who leave a mess, cause trouble and commit crime. Hence why i would use 'traveller' in a respectful way to mean the old type who have some basic human respect.

It's all generalisation whatever the term, and generalisations are bad as we know. But basically everything we ever talk about involves some form of it.
 
Among English Romani Gypsies the term pikey refers to a Traveller that is not Romani. It may also refer to a member who has been cast out of the family. If a member of the family is hot headed or a thief or a trouble maker or brings misfortune on the family, then a family council will be held and that member will be cast out of the family and will have to stay out of the way for ever more. They are regarded as never having even been a part of the family.[12]

In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, the definition of pikey became even looser and is sometimes used to refer to a wide section of the (generally urban) underclass of the country, or merely a person of any social class who "lives on the cheap". This seems to be the meaning intended by Stephen Fry in an episode of QI, grouping together "hoodies, pikeys and chavs", and intimating that these people are of a sort who "go out on the town, beating people up and drinking Bacardi Breezers".
 
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Oh, and if it wasn't racially abusive then i doubt HHO would take the time to delete all the posts that contain it..

[/ QUOTE ]

ooh I am still struggling.

'officially racist language' - who decides? (genuine question) and where does it say so?
How can it be if someone says it to mean something else.
I mean, take Corporal Jones on Dad's Army, he's always saying 'come along, Pikey' and he means something else completely

Mind you, he's not a good example, as he also says 'they don't like it up 'em, them fuzzy wuzzies' which will now probably get this thread deleted too.

I heart Corporal Jones
laugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

..because the Soldier's name is Pike you mean. I dunno, not watched much Dad's Army.
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confused.gif


anyway... I'm not an expert but i'm assuming the Goverment imposes guidelines as to what is racially abusive. Remember racism is illegal, so there has to be some set of guidlines to judge by. There's someone on here,(i THINK headless_horsewoman?) who will know more about that than me.
 
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Irish Travellers are a race. Pikey is a a racially abusive word against Irish Travellers. Ever feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall...?
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Partially in relation to your post JH because you mention 'Irish'.

Would just like to point out that these people are not actually Irish.. their descendants may well have been, but the group we are referring to, arent Irish.
If you listen to *insert PC word here* their accents aren't Irish.
 
I think you are forgetting that Irish Travellers are a race of people, and a race that regularly get a lot of abuse (as clearly evident on this forum recently...) So comparing the terms pikey and geordie is absolutely irrelevant.
 
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