Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
Shaddup
FFS, I am going mad or...
- Thread starter Flame_
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Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
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LOL I do have a habit of doing that, I should keep my best sayings close to my chest and only bring them out once every few months
Give me Frank
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he likes his legs kept on though
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Don't try and make excuses, he will be mine!!
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LOL I do have a habit of doing that, I should keep my best sayings close to my chest and only bring them out once every few months
Give me Frank
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he likes his legs kept on though
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3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
I'm just curious, has anyone actually changed their opinions on the words 'pikey' and 'gypo' after all these pages of discussion? Anyone going to refrain from using it, or use it more maybe?!
pookie
Well-Known Member
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Might we worth PMing HHO Admin and asking where they got the info from, RE the Courts deciding it's a racist term.
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Oh no, I've found articles that it has been deemed pejorative in court cases when used to describe Gypsies and Irish Travellers specifically. What I've not yet found is the government deeming it a racist term, nor have I found evidence it relates solely to one ethnic minority in the way other racist terms do.
Oh a slightly different note - I seriously hope no-one here ever uses the phrase "nitty-gritty"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1988681.stm
Might we worth PMing HHO Admin and asking where they got the info from, RE the Courts deciding it's a racist term.
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Oh no, I've found articles that it has been deemed pejorative in court cases when used to describe Gypsies and Irish Travellers specifically. What I've not yet found is the government deeming it a racist term, nor have I found evidence it relates solely to one ethnic minority in the way other racist terms do.
Oh a slightly different note - I seriously hope no-one here ever uses the phrase "nitty-gritty"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1988681.stm
Persephone
Well-Known Member
because...
*tail straight up in the air*
was the funniest bit
It really tickled me! LOLROFLMAOPMSL
*nearly widdles herself laughing at her own joke*
Boom Boom !
*bows*
I thank you all! Goodnight!
*tail straight up in the air*
was the funniest bit
It really tickled me! LOLROFLMAOPMSL
*nearly widdles herself laughing at her own joke*
Boom Boom !
*bows*
I thank you all! Goodnight!
MontyandZoom
Well-Known Member
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I'm just curious, has anyone actually changed their opinions on the words 'pikey' and 'gypo' after all these pages of discussion? Anyone going to refrain from using it, or use it more maybe?!
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Nope! The word pikey is only racist if I intend it that way..........despite what anyone may argue about it being an 'official' racist term.
Although I may refrain from using it on here since I don't generally go out of my way to offend people
I'm just curious, has anyone actually changed their opinions on the words 'pikey' and 'gypo' after all these pages of discussion? Anyone going to refrain from using it, or use it more maybe?!
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Nope! The word pikey is only racist if I intend it that way..........despite what anyone may argue about it being an 'official' racist term.
Although I may refrain from using it on here since I don't generally go out of my way to offend people
ester
Not slacking multitasking
*shuts P back in her cupboard*
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
Is there a page on the Goverment website where in racist terms are listed? Who decides 'paki' is a racist term, for example?
Carsmore
Well-Known Member
haha! Just read the link that you kindly put on Pookie! The world has gone mad! Or is that offensive to mad people? Apologies if it is....
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
Well *nibbles an itch on her side* my tail is an indication of my mood! Seen as I can't smile I have to show my emotions through my bushy appendage...
FeatherPower
Well-Known Member
Die thread DIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
9 pages of the same stuff!! lets all promise not to say anything P related or G related again unless relating to G Cobs. And please don't say F*ck or B*gger, we are live on Channel 4!
9 pages of the same stuff!! lets all promise not to say anything P related or G related again unless relating to G Cobs. And please don't say F*ck or B*gger, we are live on Channel 4!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
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Well *nibbles an itch on her side* my tail is an indication of my mood! Seen as I can't smile I have to show my emotions through my bushy appendage...
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the least known about your bushy appendages the better
Well *nibbles an itch on her side* my tail is an indication of my mood! Seen as I can't smile I have to show my emotions through my bushy appendage...
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the least known about your bushy appendages the better
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
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don't say F*ck or B*gger
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And Ester whats wrong with my appendage - I like it, it goes up and down and Persephone loves it
don't say F*ck or B*gger
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And Ester whats wrong with my appendage - I like it, it goes up and down and Persephone loves it
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Kenzo
Well-Known Member
I never even saw the thread, so I've missed out the fun...again!
Aru
Well-Known Member
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I'm just curious, has anyone actually changed their opinions on the words 'pikey' and 'gypo' after all these pages of discussion? Anyone going to refrain from using it, or use it more maybe?!
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i thought that finding out that pikey was an old romanian gypsy term was intreasting maybe i should just start using it when im ranting offensively about roma gypsys now
honestly no i dont think all these discussions will change the way i use my offensive or unoffensive language...might show a bit more decorum on HHo tho as some of ye seem easily offended...maybe
I'm just curious, has anyone actually changed their opinions on the words 'pikey' and 'gypo' after all these pages of discussion? Anyone going to refrain from using it, or use it more maybe?!
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i thought that finding out that pikey was an old romanian gypsy term was intreasting maybe i should just start using it when im ranting offensively about roma gypsys now
honestly no i dont think all these discussions will change the way i use my offensive or unoffensive language...might show a bit more decorum on HHo tho as some of ye seem easily offended...maybe
Hippona
Well-Known Member
I *think* general consensus is ....thats its not meant in a racist fashion....most people didnt feel it would be taken as a racist insult.....because we didn't/dont really acknowledge Irish travelers as a race....gypo is used very commonly, pikey more so recently......
TBH...names/slang...call it whatever...will always be used either jokingly, in ignorance...to distinguish different groups of people....scruffy kids at school get called gypo for example- always have, most likely always will. No different to people being called names because of hair colour/accent/glasses etc etc etc.
I think if people have had dealings with the less-than-law- abiding members of said travelling community, then they more likely to be less than complementary in their choice of phrase. And frankly....reputations are earned. This does not mean to tar everyone with the same brush but I'm afraid generally thats how it is perceived.
perhaps its part of our 'culture' too......
TBH...names/slang...call it whatever...will always be used either jokingly, in ignorance...to distinguish different groups of people....scruffy kids at school get called gypo for example- always have, most likely always will. No different to people being called names because of hair colour/accent/glasses etc etc etc.
I think if people have had dealings with the less-than-law- abiding members of said travelling community, then they more likely to be less than complementary in their choice of phrase. And frankly....reputations are earned. This does not mean to tar everyone with the same brush but I'm afraid generally thats how it is perceived.
perhaps its part of our 'culture' too......
pookie
Well-Known Member
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Is there a page on the Goverment website where in racist terms are listed? Who decides 'paki' is a racist term, for example?
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This is precisely my point. There is no official, government standpoint on what is or isn't a racist term. It appears to be down to general consensus, and based not just on useage but also on derivation. Racist terms are derived from the name of a particular race (likewise, xenophobic words are derived from the name for that nationality), and to be considered racist they have to be both exclusive to that race and used to imply inferiority etc for the entirety of that race.
While there are many horrid words used exclusively to mean Gypsies or Irish Travellers, "pikey" isn't one of them. It can refer to anyone of any race, nationality or ethnic group. The context in which it's used is far more important than the word itself.
Racism, IMO, is thoroughly disgusting in all its forms. But using a descriptive term is not the same as being racist - saying "that bunch of white kids who beat up old ladies" is in no way the same as saying "all white kids/white people physically assault pensioners".
Is there a page on the Goverment website where in racist terms are listed? Who decides 'paki' is a racist term, for example?
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This is precisely my point. There is no official, government standpoint on what is or isn't a racist term. It appears to be down to general consensus, and based not just on useage but also on derivation. Racist terms are derived from the name of a particular race (likewise, xenophobic words are derived from the name for that nationality), and to be considered racist they have to be both exclusive to that race and used to imply inferiority etc for the entirety of that race.
While there are many horrid words used exclusively to mean Gypsies or Irish Travellers, "pikey" isn't one of them. It can refer to anyone of any race, nationality or ethnic group. The context in which it's used is far more important than the word itself.
Racism, IMO, is thoroughly disgusting in all its forms. But using a descriptive term is not the same as being racist - saying "that bunch of white kids who beat up old ladies" is in no way the same as saying "all white kids/white people physically assault pensioners".
M_G
Well-Known Member
QR.. Nope to me a gypsy will always be someone from Romany decent who is a hard worker with respect for property and more often than not has stunning vanner type cobs.
Pikey will always be for the scum that do nothing but steal, bully and ignore the law generally have never done a days hard work in their lives and the police are scared of them...
When I bought my first horse down here (coloured) from a lovely Gypsy lady (has been settled for a few years) the first thing she said when we parked the lorry at the field was make sure its locked there is a lot of pikeys round here
Pikey will always be for the scum that do nothing but steal, bully and ignore the law generally have never done a days hard work in their lives and the police are scared of them...
When I bought my first horse down here (coloured) from a lovely Gypsy lady (has been settled for a few years) the first thing she said when we parked the lorry at the field was make sure its locked there is a lot of pikeys round here
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
If I, as a Government employee, had used the word pikey I would have been in serious trouble. The rule of thumb is - if someone is offended - it's offensive.
This idea that people don't mean it badly doesn't hold up. If someone used p*ki or n*gger people would be offended, even if it wasn't meant as anyhting more than a descriptive term. Yet those words are offensive only by consensus as well.
Racism againt Gypsies and Travellers has been called the last socially acceptable form of racism and that's about right unfortunately. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist though.
This idea that people don't mean it badly doesn't hold up. If someone used p*ki or n*gger people would be offended, even if it wasn't meant as anyhting more than a descriptive term. Yet those words are offensive only by consensus as well.
Racism againt Gypsies and Travellers has been called the last socially acceptable form of racism and that's about right unfortunately. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist though.
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
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If I, as a Government employee, had used the word pikey I would have been in serious trouble. The rule of thumb is - if someone is offended - it's offensive.
This idea that people don't mean it badly doesn't hold up. If someone used p*ki or n*gger people would be offended, even if it wasn't meant as anyhting more than a descriptive term. Yet those words are offensive only by consensus as well.
Racism againt Gypsies and Travellers has been called the last socially acceptable form of racism and that's about right unfortunately. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist though.
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but that's nonsense, as a christian I am horrified at the amount of blasphemy happily bandied around on radio and tv, but I just have to live with it!
I can't say 'it offends me' and zazoom, it's gone the lovely government removes it!
I'm offended by the fact that the last resort of the curtailed racist, sexist, ageist is to take the pee out of farmers, and call rural folk 'yokels' but I doubt it would stand up in the European courts.
It's just arbitary. What ever is in fashion at the moment.
If I, as a Government employee, had used the word pikey I would have been in serious trouble. The rule of thumb is - if someone is offended - it's offensive.
This idea that people don't mean it badly doesn't hold up. If someone used p*ki or n*gger people would be offended, even if it wasn't meant as anyhting more than a descriptive term. Yet those words are offensive only by consensus as well.
Racism againt Gypsies and Travellers has been called the last socially acceptable form of racism and that's about right unfortunately. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist though.
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but that's nonsense, as a christian I am horrified at the amount of blasphemy happily bandied around on radio and tv, but I just have to live with it!
I can't say 'it offends me' and zazoom, it's gone the lovely government removes it!
I'm offended by the fact that the last resort of the curtailed racist, sexist, ageist is to take the pee out of farmers, and call rural folk 'yokels' but I doubt it would stand up in the European courts.
It's just arbitary. What ever is in fashion at the moment.
pookie
Well-Known Member
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If I, as a Government employee, had used the word pikey I would have been in serious trouble. The rule of thumb is - if someone is offended - it's offensive.
This idea that people don't mean it badly doesn't hold up. If someone used p*ki or n*gger people would be offended, even if it wasn't meant as anyhting more than a descriptive term. Yet those words are offensive only by consensus as well.
Racism againt Gypsies and Travellers has been called the last socially acceptable form of racism and that's about right unfortunately. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist though.
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Not being derived from a racial term, it's not a racist word. It may be an offensive word, it may be used in a horrible context and extremely upsetting to some people, but it doesn't refer exclusively to one race or another. There is a difference between "racist terminology" and "offensive terminology". That particular P-word is usually used to describe a group of people, in much the same way "chav", "toff" or "sloane ranger" is used. It can be used to describe anyone from any ethnic or cultural background.
And please don't misunderstand me - I by no means think anyone can use racist terms and then excuse themselves with a nonsensicial "I didn't mean it badly" comeback. As I said above, I despise racism and find it thoroughly illogical. But arbitrarily deciding a term, with no specific racial origins, is racist is a matter of conjecture.
If I, as a Government employee, had used the word pikey I would have been in serious trouble. The rule of thumb is - if someone is offended - it's offensive.
This idea that people don't mean it badly doesn't hold up. If someone used p*ki or n*gger people would be offended, even if it wasn't meant as anyhting more than a descriptive term. Yet those words are offensive only by consensus as well.
Racism againt Gypsies and Travellers has been called the last socially acceptable form of racism and that's about right unfortunately. That doesn't change the fact that it is racist though.
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Not being derived from a racial term, it's not a racist word. It may be an offensive word, it may be used in a horrible context and extremely upsetting to some people, but it doesn't refer exclusively to one race or another. There is a difference between "racist terminology" and "offensive terminology". That particular P-word is usually used to describe a group of people, in much the same way "chav", "toff" or "sloane ranger" is used. It can be used to describe anyone from any ethnic or cultural background.
And please don't misunderstand me - I by no means think anyone can use racist terms and then excuse themselves with a nonsensicial "I didn't mean it badly" comeback. As I said above, I despise racism and find it thoroughly illogical. But arbitrarily deciding a term, with no specific racial origins, is racist is a matter of conjecture.
Pedantic
Well-Known Member
Well it wasnt me, I would never complain to the moderator about anything, I'm a big boy and if I dont like something I say so or dont read it, plus I can handle a debate without running to mummy.
It's like the horror stories and pics with horses, I just dont open the post or click on the link, if I think it's going to be too upsetting I leave it.
It's like the horror stories and pics with horses, I just dont open the post or click on the link, if I think it's going to be too upsetting I leave it.
Hippona
Well-Known Member
True...my son has had all forms of bullying and name calling for having ginger hair....which when you think about it is down to genetics and race too....yet its a socially acceptable form of bullying.......
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
If you're offended it's offensive! Why do you have a problem with saying that something is offensive? You are allowed to be offended!
Using racially offensive terms can be classed as incitement to racial hatred, which is illegal. Sorry, but that is the law.
As for it being in fashion - what's fashionable about standing up for Gypsies and Travellers, based on my experiences doing that is very unfashionable indeed..
Using racially offensive terms can be classed as incitement to racial hatred, which is illegal. Sorry, but that is the law.
As for it being in fashion - what's fashionable about standing up for Gypsies and Travellers, based on my experiences doing that is very unfashionable indeed..
M_G
Well-Known Member
but how can it be racist when there is no race involved
Is Chav racist?
Is Chav racist?
Hippona
Well-Known Member
Thats what I thought- but apparantly Irish Travellers is now classed as a race
Tis a funny old world.
Tis a funny old world.
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Chav is an interesting term, some people argue to derives from the Romany word for child.
Pikey - turnpikes is a word connected to roads and travel, and it's used about Irish Travellers... seeing the connection?
There were two separate rulings in court, which basically resulted in Gypsies and Irish Travellers being recognised as ethnic minority groups for the purposes of the Race Relations Amendment Act 2000. So you see this is a racial issue in the eyes of the law.
BTW - Your earlier comment about what a Romany Gypsy lady said about some Irish Travellers took me right back, the two groups are separate and they don't tend to get on well as groups, took me right back to refereeing some rather heated meetings!
So glad I don't do that anymore!
You should get the Gypsy and Traveller reps started on new travellers **shudders at the thought**
The links I posted earlier have some background info.
Pikey - turnpikes is a word connected to roads and travel, and it's used about Irish Travellers... seeing the connection?
There were two separate rulings in court, which basically resulted in Gypsies and Irish Travellers being recognised as ethnic minority groups for the purposes of the Race Relations Amendment Act 2000. So you see this is a racial issue in the eyes of the law.
BTW - Your earlier comment about what a Romany Gypsy lady said about some Irish Travellers took me right back, the two groups are separate and they don't tend to get on well as groups, took me right back to refereeing some rather heated meetings!
You should get the Gypsy and Traveller reps started on new travellers **shudders at the thought**
The links I posted earlier have some background info.
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
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but how can it be racist when there is no race involved
Is Chav racist?
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if only someone who is saying it is racist would answer this darn question ......
but how can it be racist when there is no race involved
Is Chav racist?
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if only someone who is saying it is racist would answer this darn question ......