Fibre and calories for veteran with bad teeth

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Celtic Fringe

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Thinking ahead about what to feed my veteran cob in the winter ..... any advice would be helpful as I'm more used to trying to diet very good doers :)
He is around 30 years old and has VERY short teeth. He is not able to eat hay or haylage any more. Last winter he was fine on a cup of grass nuts plus a cup of conditioning cubes, very well soaked, twice a day. He went into winter very fat and came out looking about right and is maintaining weight at the moment. However, I think he was feeling the cold more than before and will definitely need extra feed next winter. I'm thinking that getting more fibre into his hind gut will help him keep warm but he will also need calories. Does the following sound sensible?
Dengie Hifi Senior for fibre - it contains around 30% fibre but isn't very high in calories (8.5MJ/Kg). An alternative might be Simple Systems Hay Care? Mixed with some well soaked speedibeet or perhaps grass nuts to make it easier to swallow and add calories (~12MJ/Kg)? I'd also feed soaked barley rings if he needs more calories (13.5MJ/Kg).
Feed can be divided into three or four meals per day as needed. He always eats slowly and is not prone to digestive upsets or laminitis.
 
I like soaked grassnuts and if he did well on them last year I would feed that as a hay replacer, or in up to 4 meals if he is out 24/7, along with some linseed and a vit/ min supplement so you know he is getting all he needs, keep it simple and tweak if required.
 
I second grass nuts, I had an elderly 14hh pony who had 1.5 scoops of nuts - soaked in 5x their volume. He had that three times a day and it took him all the time to eat it - so he wasn't scoffing it like a hard feed but treated it as hay in a big tub !
 
I have used soaked grassnuts and speedibeet very successfully with the elderly. i would just give him more of what he did well on last year tbh, with a warmer rug, if he feels the cold.
 
I genuinely wouldn't really see what the Hifi would bring to the situation other than being a short chaff. We've had to move away from chaff as mine really struggles with it- finds hay easier!

I'd stick to the soaked grass nuts and add micronised linseed if he needs more
 
Grass nuts and fast fibre got our elderly toothless pony though winter 2016.

I added grass chaff to slow her down and for extra calories.

Would have added linseed had she needed extra, or substituted the fast fibre for veteran vitality .

Good luck.

Fiona
 
Thank-you all :) He likes the grass nuts and sucks them in very well so I'll plan to stick with those. He was on a fairly minimal amount last year so we can increase his ration by quite a lot. The Dengie website say they are only a partial hay replacer which didn't seem to make total sense to me? We can add some higher calorie feed if he drops weight - linseed should help keep his joints in good nick too! He lives out 24/7 and in the coldest spell had a heavyweight plus a good medium weight rug on but never seemed overly warm. He is easy to feed in the field as none of the others come close when he is eating! They have ad-lib hay or haylage which he picks at but it is not forming a significant part of his diet now. It will be possible to move him to separate turnout for part of the day at least if he needs a big bucket to dip into at leisure. He still needs some time with the herd so he can make sure they are behaving themselves :D
 
I had an old pony mare in a similar situation, except she needed to be pulled out on her own to eat. I think grass nuts are made from grass harvested at peak and flash-dried before pelleting (i.e. capturing all the "goodness" of fresh grass). Hay cobs are pressed hay. I think grass nuts could potentially be more nutritious (higher sugar, lower fibre) than hay cobs, and they are generally also a finer texture when soaked compared to hay cobs, but probably best to just check the product. Not sure if that is why they are advertised as "partial" hay replacer? You could always see if hay cobs are more suitable (and which ones work out cheaper, if you have to feed in bulk).
For my mare, a full belly was definitely more important than thicker rugs to keep warm, a lesson that took me a while to learn. After I did, she pretty much managed with just a no-fill rain sheet, and occasionally a mid-weight rug.
I found a limiting factor was the amount of water needed to soak the feed. Because she had to come out to eat and I couldn't wait around for hours each time, feeds that took too much water to soak were just too bulky to finish quickly (sugar beet!). Even if your horse is happy to eat, feeding speedibeet soaked as recommended means you are filling your horse's belly with 4/5th water, so not exactly "high calorie". I also found that grass nuts, and to a lesser degree, alfalfa nuts took quite long to soak (overnight/ at least a couple of hours) which wasn't always possible. In the end I ended up feeding mostly high fibre cubes which soften with very little water, made a smaller portion and which she liked to eat. Nutritionally probably not ideal as the main food source, but at her age I think being pragmatic and going with what she liked and what was practical from a management point of view was the best option. I would just see how it goes, and not get too hung up on the details.
 
supsup said:
I had an old pony mare in a similar situation, except she needed to be pulled out on her own to eat. I think grass nuts are made from grass harvested at peak and flash-dried before pelleting (i.e. capturing all the "goodness" of fresh grass). Hay cobs are pressed hay. I think grass nuts could potentially be more nutritious (higher sugar, lower fibre) than hay cobs, and they are generally also a finer texture when soaked compared to hay cobs, but probably best to just check the product. Not sure if that is why they are advertised as "partial" hay replacer? You could always see if hay cobs are more suitable (and which ones work out cheaper, if you have to feed in bulk).
For my mare, a full belly was definitely more important than thicker rugs to keep warm, a lesson that took me a while to learn. After I did, she pretty much managed with just a no-fill rain sheet, and occasionally a mid-weight rug.
I found a limiting factor was the amount of water needed to soak the feed. Because she had to come out to eat and I couldn't wait around for hours each time, feeds that took too much water to soak were just too bulky to finish quickly (sugar beet!). Even if your horse is happy to eat, feeding speedibeet soaked as recommended means you are filling your horse's belly with 4/5th water, so not exactly "high calorie". I also found that grass nuts, and to a lesser degree, alfalfa nuts took quite long to soak (overnight/ at least a couple of hours) which wasn't always possible. In the end I ended up feeding mostly high fibre cubes which soften with very little water, made a smaller portion and which she liked to eat. Nutritionally probably not ideal as the main food source, but at her age I think being pragmatic and going with what she liked and what was practical from a management point of view was the best option. I would just see how it goes, and not get too hung up on the details.
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Thank-you. Hay cobs may also be a good option for more fibre. At the moment he is doing well on grass nuts and a small amount of conditioning cubes (all soaked) and picking at the (very dry) pasture. We usually make evening feeds in the morning and morning feeds the night before so soaking time is not a problem and we can add extra feeds as needed. Like you I need to think about how much he is actually getting as soaked feeds contain a lot of water - I totally agree that a full belly is best for keeping warm so making sure he is well fed on whatever he can manage will be important. Fortunately he is not a fussy eater! At this stage it is a matter of keeping him comfortable, happy and enjoying life.
 
re, the 'partial hay replacer' it is usually because some of the constituents would take the horse over its RDA if fed as a full ration.
 
Definitely would suggest soaked grass nuts as the first option to try - usually works out quite economical which is quite often a consideration when feeding as a partial hay replacer due to the quantities required. If you are worried about making sure he gets enough as it is soaked, then soak one meal at a time and measure the nuts out dry before you soak (rather than making up a big tub and just scooping out of that).
 
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