Fibre sand - new surface advice needed!

[Remi'sMum]

So... My yard finally renovated the ménage, yaaaay! Old surface removed, old membrane lifted, drains sorted, new membrane placed and new fibre sand surface down.

It looked fab.... for the first couple of days. They used proper laser levelling devices and a big machine with caterpillar tracks to level it when it was finished. But after 3-4 days of use it was badly churned up, lumpy, huge craters and hummocks, lots of fibre collecting on the surface and very very deep.

We've tried to level it using the Arenamate harrow (tines and a blade at the back) but it's just not doing the job. The fibre is collecting on the tines and the surface just refuses to level out.

I don't know where they got the surface from so can't contact the company for advice. I know they've contacted Arenamate to ask if another harrow would be better but I'm not sure what the outcome was.

I'm currently so disappointed as we've waited ages for it to be sorted and I know they've spent a lot of money but it's currently more or less unrideable 😥. I and others have ridden in it in the last couple of days and the horses are tripping and stumbling and proper schooling is impossible.

Any advice or experiences gratefully received!

 

[Spottyappy]

Have they got a roller?
Could roller it down, and then spread the actual surface with the arena mate?
Can you ask YO who supplied it, as then you could contact the company on their behalf?

 

[stencilface]

We have just had silica sand put on ours, no fibre yet and it too was levelled and tracked in with a 20 tonne machine. It does get deep when you use it, but I think this is because it needs to settle first AFAIK? Has it been left to settle? We are not using it for a while and our new ocd yard manager aka my dad rakes it by hand religiously lol.

I'm not sure what we need to do to make sure it doesn't go deep, but we are going good to visit a site where they've used the fibre we are going to go with next Tuesday so I'll ask then. I can let you know if no one else is able to help?

 

[Remi'sMum]

Thanks for replies.

Yes, they have a roller but when I suggested that he said he thought the roller would just drag it about rather than flatten it (unless it was wet first)

No, it's not been left to settle, it was ridden in straight away.

It almost seems like the fibre is adding to the problem somehow, clumping and causing the sand to lie uneven.

We fought long and hard to get them to do the renovation, and now they've done the work and it's still not right, it's really disheartening. The livery isn't their primary business and certainly not a priority, so we were lucky to get it done in the first place.

Will keep you posted...

 

[Red-1]

My work place had a Fibresand arena, for 20 odd years. It did need to settle a bit when new. When it was new, or topped up,we also had a period of time where the fibres would separate and clump together. TBH it was quite comical, as the clumps would blow to the top corners, and wobble there like a family of bunny rabbits.

These were Police Horses, but it was comical to see when the wind blew, a colony of Fibresand "rabbits" would scurry across the arena, an the lot would scatter. It was a lot better when wet, so we would use a generator and commercial hose and pumped water onto it.

Over time, despite watering, the fibre came out and blew away, BUT....then it was a really durable surface. It did eventually flood in winter (the membrane was damaged) but even then the surface was stable. You could jump on a 70% waterlogged surface (and I mean over an inch deep) and the actual "going" to the horse was still perfect, if rather splashy.

As far as your surface is concerned, if you paid a contractor to do the arena, and he supplied the surface, then it is his responsibility to make it good. I think we were told it should be watered, but once it has initially settled, and the bunnies have hatched and blown away, then it will be a lot better.

After 20 odd years we replaced our Fibresand one with a different, more expensive, waxed surface, and THAT was a nightmare. The company went bust, and we had to pay to have the whole lot removed and the whole thing started again. So, I would prefer the Fibresand to that. Not perfect, but long term workable.

 

[AnShanDan]

I've got DIY fibre and sand in my arena. The worst weather conditions for it are prolonged dry spells, the fibre starts to separate from the sand and all lies on top and the surface starts to ride deep. Light harrowing and rolling does help, the latter keeps any residual moisture in, which is I think the critical factor.
This spring, when we'd had weeks of dry weather, I bought a serious sprinkler and began watering the whole arena, this did help, but nothing works as well as a decent rainy day, which recently we've had far too many of!!

 

[oldie48]

I also think the problem is that the surface is too dry. I suspect that it should have been given a thorough watering then left to settle.

 

[Remi'sMum]

Stencilface - any advice following your visit next week would be great, thanks!

So maybe a plan might be to track it in again and water it thoroughly then leave it a bit to settle? How long to settle, do you think? After so much rain in the last few weeks, it now looks like we're in for a rather dry spell.....

 

[Peggs]

Watching thread with interest as just laid our sand this week and looking into fibre surfaces. Definitively going for one with additional rubber crumb to help maintain the moisture as our arena seems to drain pretty effectively. Aesthetically, I wish they did lighter fibre mixes, I've found one but its out as its so light it will blow and doesn't come with a rubber crumb mix. The arena is right in view my parents house and they don't want a dark surface, I know the crumb will darken it but if mixed with lighter fibres it wouldn't be as dark.

Off the topic slightly, but in my search for the perfect surface topping I have been told the more expensive wax is not a good option for outdoor arenas as is not hard wearing enough and will need replacing quickly.

Also in an attempt to hijack this post ...... Has anyone tried a fibre and PVC granule mix?

 

[Booboos]

New arenas need a lot of water and time to settle. Unfortunately you are not supposed to ride on a new arena until it settles (about 6 weeks with a lot of rain, the test is trying to poke a finger in the sand, if you can't get past the first knuckle it is ready).

 

[milliepops]

New arenas need a lot of water and time to settle. Unfortunately you are not supposed to ride on a new arena until it settles (about 6 weeks with a lot of rain, the test is trying to poke a finger in the sand, if you can't get past the first knuckle it is ready).

^^ this. You can speed it along a bit in dry weather by watering, but only if you're not on a meter as you'll want a sprinkler going for hours on end, daily!

 

[Tiddlypom]

^^ this. You can speed it along a bit in dry weather by watering, but only if you're not on a meter as you'll want a sprinkler going for hours on end, daily!

Echo this. I was told to keep the horses off my new Charles Britton sand and rubber arena until 4" of water had fallen on it. The water caused the grains of sand to knit together. I used a lawn sprinkler, it took AGES (well over a week) to cover the whole area, but even when walking across it to move the sprinkler I could tell instantly which areas had or hadn't been watered. The unwatered areas were really deep, like sand dune sand, whilst the watered areas becames firm before any other treatment.

Booboos tip of only being able to push a finger in up to the first knuckle is what I was told by CB too.

 

[Remi'sMum]

Oh cr*p 😥

Why weren't we told this??

They didn't hire a contractor to do the work, they have heavy plant so did it themselves....

So if they were to track it in again, then water it a lot for as long as it takes, will it be ok? Or is it ruined for long term because it's been ridden on and messed up already? 😥

 

[oldie48]

If it's levelled and watered really well and left until its settled, it will be fine.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If it's got craters and hummocks as per describd in the OP, won't the fibre and sand need to be completely remixed? It sounds as though they've separated out. A false level surface, compromised of areas of mostly sand and others of mostly fibre, will always ride badly even after watering and settling, surely?

I'm a great fan of the Arenamate leveller with tines, we have one and it's great, and it's supoosed to be good on sand and fibre. The Arenamate peeps have seen it all re poorly performing surfaces, so their advice is well worth getting.

 

[stencilface]

Will do OP. Ditto everyone else, I think it needs to settle and be watered to bed on properly, despite being levelled and tracked in. We are planning to put a bowser next to our arena where it's close to the drainage ditch, and in winter when the water is flowing in the ditch pump it in then and store it for summer.

 

[eggs]

I know someone who got the fire brigade to fm on and put a load of water on when they hit a new surface put down as we were in the middle of a hot dry spell.

When I had a new sans and rubber surface put down I was hold not to ride on it until it had had a decent amount of water o. It and had settled.

 

[Remi'sMum]

Thanks for all replies everybody. I can feel a difficult conversation with the YO coming on - I think they, and we, wrongly assumed that they'd put the new surface down and everybody would be happy. Is, because we'd finally have a rideable surface, and the , because we wouldn't be hassling them about it anymore. 😕

Re. Tiddlypom's comment about re-mixing the sand and fibre, what are people's thoughts on this? How would this be done?

Thanks again all, it's really valuable input.

 

[milliepops]

When we had a fibre top up on a new arena (about 2 months after starting to use it) we were just told to spread it on top and then ride & grade it as normal. The fibre worked itself in nicely.

 

[Booboos]

When we had a fibre top up on a new arena (about 2 months after starting to use it) we were just told to spread it on top and then ride & grade it as normal. The fibre worked itself in nicely.

That's because your sand had already bedded down. It's the sand that needs to settle otherwise it will move excessively and the holes will fill up with the other material, be it fiber, rubber or whatever.

The fiber should be gently rotivated into the sand being very careful to stay on the top and not damage the membrane. Then it should be rolled if necessary, then watered and left to settle.

 

[Peggs]

That's because your sand had already bedded down. It's the sand that needs to settle otherwise it will move excessively and the holes will fill up with the other material, be it fiber, rubber or whatever.

The fiber should be gently rotivated into the sand being very careful to stay on the top and not damage the membrane. Then it should be rolled if necessary, then watered and left to settle.

That's interesting to know. Was wondering whether letting the sand settle and then rotivating fibre post 6 weeks would mean another wait to let it settle again.

 

[Remi'sMum]

If only I had a hope of getting it done properly... I told him today that the best advice I could gather was to track it in again, water it thoroughly and let it settle with no use. The response was 'it's given rain for this afternoon'... 😥

 

[littlemiss1]

im glad im not the only one who is having problems with their sand and fibre surface. iv had mine in now for nearly 2 years and it has NEVER been right. At first it was very very deep which as with any new arena it needs to settle. I have been told every time i have complained that it needs to settle 2 years on nearly and its still not settled. In the summer when its dry for a week or more the surface becomes dry, the fibre lays on the top and is sand underneath is very deep. So out comes the hose and arena mate to level it back down and mix the fibre back into the sand but then we are left with a very wet deep surface that when the horse walks leave deep imprints in the surface, this has become so bad that i have had horses fall down onto their knees whilst trotting both while ridden and lunged. Thats the surface in the very rare warm weather in the summer, the rest of the year which lets face it is pretty wet and rubbish the surface becomes incredibly hard its like walking on the road. the fibre becomes clumped together so once again the arena mate comes out to loosen the compacted sand and fibre so its ride able and were back to wet, deep surface that you cannot ride over more than twice in the same track. When cantering the horses leave such deep holes you have to rake the arena after every time its used. I cannot lunge then ride without having to divert around the lunging area, or re rake the arena before riding. Then at the slightest frost it freezes solid and is completely unusable. So Im now looking into getting the fibre removed and going for a sand and rubber mix instead as this is by far the worst surface i have ever seen!

 

[Peggs]

im glad im not the only one who is having problems with their sand and fibre surface. iv had mine in now for nearly 2 years and it has NEVER been right. At first it was very very deep which as with any new arena it needs to settle. I have been told every time i have complained that it needs to settle 2 years on nearly and its still not settled. In the summer when its dry for a week or more the surface becomes dry, the fibre lays on the top and is sand underneath is very deep. So out comes the hose and arena mate to level it back down and mix the fibre back into the sand but then we are left with a very wet deep surface that when the horse walks leave deep imprints in the surface, this has become so bad that i have had horses fall down onto their knees whilst trotting both while ridden and lunged. Thats the surface in the very rare warm weather in the summer, the rest of the year which lets face it is pretty wet and rubbish the surface becomes incredibly hard its like walking on the road. the fibre becomes clumped together so once again the arena mate comes out to loosen the compacted sand and fibre so its ride able and were back to wet, deep surface that you cannot ride over more than twice in the same track. When cantering the horses leave such deep holes you have to rake the arena after every time its used. I cannot lunge then ride without having to divert around the lunging area, or re rake the arena before riding. Then at the slightest frost it freezes solid and is completely unusable. So Im now looking into getting the fibre removed and going for a sand and rubber mix instead as this is by far the worst surface i have ever seen!

How terrible, and very disappointing for you where did you get your fibre from? (Pm if you like!).

Did you mix your fibre in with the proper silica sand? I've heard several people having trouble if they haven't used the correct stuff :/

 

[Remi'sMum]

Littlemiss1, that sounds awful - it sounds like it perhaps holds too much moisture (other than when it's dry)? Freezing solid is another worry, but only time will tell on that with ours...

After some rain last night, ours rode a little better this morning. Still very uneven but less deep. I can see that with rain and time it may improve. ( there's no hope of it being attended to further by the powers that be, I don't think, and others are riding on it, so letting it settle also seems out of the question now)

 

[Booboos]

In general fibre tends to hold water well so it will freeze faster than just sand and certainly faster than rubber, but conversely it should do well in warmer areas.

 

[stencilface]

Reading/talking more about it there are people who leave it to settle and people who don't. Riding on it can also help with compaction I'm told.

The fibre we went to see yesterday at Valley Equestrian needs rotavating into the top few inches to help it bind with the sand. Their stuff looked good, nice and pale and did sit on top fluffed but wasn't too blowy. They supply Martin collins so hopefully it should be good stuff. Hoping to get some in a couple of weeks and get it mixed in. Our arena looks much better this morning after heavy rain last night so might need to get the sprinkler out.

 

[Remi'sMum]

Interesting about the rotovating Stencilface. Apparently we're having a demo of a different harrow from Arenamate that's a bit more 'plough-like', so it mixes as it goes.

We shall see. The rain has definitely improved matters...

 

[ycbm]

Will do OP. Ditto everyone else, I think it needs to settle and be watered to bed on properly, despite being levelled and tracked in. We are planning to put a bowser next to our arena where it's close to the drainage ditch, and in winter when the water is flowing in the ditch pump it in then and store it for summer.

You would need a massive water tanker, not just a browser, to make any difference to a 24 x 40 arena, I'm afraid. A cubic metre of water, 1,000 litres, is only just over 1mm on the surface.

I'm another who was told not to ride on my arena until there had been heavy rain. Luckily, the day it was finished, the heavens opened for several hours!

 

[stencilface]

Ah okay so we just need some heavy rain? Had some last night. Fibre guy said to make sure sand is wetbefore adding in the fibres too.