Field training help

PoniePower

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Hi, I am having an issue with my 4 year old. She is 13.3hh, and not yet backed. She is quite a lighter frame, so I wanted to wait until nearer the spring to fully back her, she is supposed to be for my daughter.
She has done a lot of ground work. She walks on a leadrope really well and isn't afraid of ANYTHING! The trouble is, once her head collar comes off, all her training, goes out of the window and she is really defiant. She lives out 24/7 in a small herd of 2 others and they are all mine. I have trained one to work to voice command for a disabled rider.
Yesterday, she kicked me in the chest. I feel I don't trust her anymore but my daughter is heartbroken at the possibility of us rehoming her and I feel my training has let her down.

I really need advice please....
 

Skib

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She may think that once the head collar is off, she is no longer working for you?
I was taught that though a horse must respect one on the ground both in the field and in the stable, it wasnt actually working for you till the head collar went on. Thus I put on my share's headcollar before picking out her feet.
 

PoniePower

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What are you trying to do without a headcollar? Is she safe to catch and be in the field with?
I do things like fill up the water troughs, check fencing. She follows me around some of the time. She is quite sweet sometimes and sometimes she can bite too. When I am doing to same things.
 

PoniePower

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Can you give us the background to the lead up to when she kicked you?
I was walking back towards the gate and she was walking with me. I had a friend with me (that's been lots of times before) and she just trotted in front and kicked. I didn't see it coming and I'm mad with myself that I didn't. I've been around horses all of my life and it is the first time I've been taken by surprise like that.
 

PoniePower

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She may think that once the head collar is off, she is no longer working for you?
I was taught that though a horse must respect one on the ground both in the field and in the stable, it wasnt actually working for you till the head collar went on. Thus I put on my share's headcollar before picking out her feet.
She live out 24/7. Should I leave a fieldsafe headcollar on?
 

PoniePower

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I'd be considering just tying her up while you do your jobs then leading her to the gate and letting her go. I certainly wouldn't be allowing her to follow you around if she's unreliable
There is also a footpath that runs through the field. I need to make sure she is safe.
 

Peglo

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one of mine showed aggressive behaviour in the field while we were poop scooping and not asking anything of her (or even wanting her near us) I stopped letting her come up to us and drove her away before she could do anything. She can come if I’ve got her head collar or bucket but otherwise she’s to leave us alone. It’s too early to say if it will work long term and we’ve now changed to winter routine so don’t have the same issues. I’m hoping it’s just settling in issues.

It’s especially worrying for you if people are using the footpath though.
 

PoniePower

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I wonder if walkers have been feeding her and she was expecting something from you
Is it possible to fence off the path? I'd worry about her around other people
We were in a field before that the owner kept going giving her apples and we had to leave in the end. Her aggressive behaviour started here.
Today we had a really good training session, then I stopped her eating grass and her behaviour changed completely. She's not exactly starving! The grass is amazing where she is now.
 

YourValentine

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I think there is a bit of boundary testing / who is boss going on, not actual nastiness.

I would definitely for now fence off the public footpath, as you really don't want to risk her biting or kicking a walker.

Enforce your personal space when you are in the field doing stuff like poo picking, catch the others. Make sure your body language says back off (stand up tall, shoulders back, look her straight in the eye) and ask her to back up if she comes to close. If she doesn't back up immediately do your best impression of a dominant horse lunging at her - throw arms up, shout, stamp a foot, throw a rope at her (i like throwing a headcollar rope because they are hard to throw so unlikely to hit, but give the right impression) what ever it takes to make her back up. The minute she does drop the attitude/stance and quietly go back to what you were doing. You might need to do it a few times till she gets the point.

Do watch out when you chase her away for her kicking out at you as she spins away. If you watch horses in the field, the one being chased often will give a defiant wave of a back leg at the chaser. This is generally the point I'd throw the rope, as it reinforces your point but you're out of range.

When you want to catch her or want her to approach you have to have clearly different body language, relaxed shoulders, calm voice, look at her shoulder don't make eye contact. Horses "speak" body language she will soon learn when she can approach and when not.

When you do have a headcollar on, make sure she is 100% obedient. Don't be mean, but give her no leeway on stop, walk on, move over etc., as you know each other well she might be quietly pushing the boundaries here as well and your not noticing/picking up on it.
Especially around food given what you said about treats previously and not eating grass.
 

tristars

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if one ever kicked at me it would get a smack on said leg, caught bought in and kept on its own in a separate naughty paddock, right next to the others, under strict instructions to behave at all times, one hoof out of place, one funny look, one threatening movement, very gruff voice, i find withdrawing all privileges works wonders, i woul d also let it see loads of fuss and treats being heaped on others.

thing is she has already done the worst thing ,kick a human or other horse

i would never take known risks around that, if she kicked you in the chest she may have hit your daughter in the head

i would eventually take it in the field on a lunge rope with lunge whip for protection quietly allow it graze, gradually get near the others, any anti social ears back, swingy quarters etc met with gruff voice, making it quite clear that is not allowed, then return to naughty paddock, repeat until it understands, i have allowed naughties to start grooming others while on the lunge, so i can pull away if it gets stressy, in the meantime i would teach it lots of other little things to occupy said brain, go out for walks in hand somewhere its never seen, put up patterns of poles on ground, try to get its brain to grow up a bit

we have one who never lived with another horse til it was 6 and understands the gruff voice now very well, but i use it all the time, and watch like a hawk, i also heap praise at other times, but he is doing splendidly now, just have put the work in to start ours was a savage a bully, kicked at both ends while rearing and striking out and biting, but not kicked a human thank god

the problem is did she kick out of lack of being watched or iis she a nasty, has she got away with bullying? its very serious really
 

Cortez

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“Very serious really”……

Well, I should think so; a kick from a horse can seriously injure or kill you, break bones, fracture skulls and stop hearts (in the case of a kick to the chest). Please, don’t mess about with dangerous nonsense, this is a job for a competent pro who can nip this in the bud before you get hurt.
 
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Pearlsacarolsinger

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if one ever kicked at me it would get a smack on said leg, caught bought in and kept on its own in a separate naughty paddock, right next to the others, under strict instructions to behave at all times, one hoof out of place, one funny look, one threatening movement, very gruff voice, i find withdrawing all privileges works wonders, i woul d also let it see loads of fuss and treats being heaped on others.

thing is she has already done the worst thing ,kick a human or other horse

i would never take known risks around that, if she kicked you in the chest she may have hit your daughter in the head

i would eventually take it in the field on a lunge rope with lunge whip for protection quietly allow it graze, gradually get near the others, any anti social ears back, swingy quarters etc met with gruff voice, making it quite clear that is not allowed, then return to naughty paddock, repeat until it understands, i have allowed naughties to start grooming others while on the lunge, so i can pull away if it gets stressy, in the meantime i would teach it lots of other little things to occupy said brain, go out for walks in hand somewhere its never seen, put up patterns of poles on ground, try to get its brain to grow up a bit

we have one who never lived with another horse til it was 6 and understands the gruff voice now very well, but i use it all the time, and watch like a hawk, i also heap praise at other times, but he is doing splendidly now, just have put the work in to start ours was a savage a bully, kicked at both ends while rearing and striking out and biting, but not kicked a human thank god

the problem is did she kick out of lack of being watched or iis she a nasty, has she got away with bullying? its very serious really
I would have walloped it back! Please don't put yourself at risk again, bring the horse in before doing anything in the field. Your safety has to be paramount, or you can't look after the others.
 

tristars

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its just an opinion, on a forum where someone `asks for an opinion`.

i am sure op has the sense to take what they need from all replies.

i have known several people die from a horse kick, i am only talking about what i would do, and only commented as something may be of help

and i do not necessarily think walloping horses is the answer, the socialization of horses is a complicated process

lets not descend into helgstrand territory

i would tap any offending leg to indicate not allowed

i am more concerned that op has to ask on a forum , after the event, i wish they had the foresight to avoid the kick in the first place
 

Cortez

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its just an opinion, on a forum where someone `asks for an opinion`.

i am sure op has the sense to take what they need from all replies.

i have known several people die from a horse kick, i am only talking about what i would do, and only commented as something may be of help

and i do not necessarily think walloping horses is the answer, the socialization of horses is a complicated process

lets not descend into helgstrand territory

i would tap any offending leg to indicate not allowed

i am more concerned that op has to ask on a forum , after the event, i wish they had the foresight to avoid the kick in the first place
Helgestrand territory? Are you for real?

Tapping a leg could very well get you launched into next week, please don’t give “advice” like this when the situation is potentially very serious; this is not a place to experiment with fluffy nonsense. The several people you know who are now dead would probably agree.

*Always risky to assume anyone has sense.
 

tristars

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Helgestrand territory? Are you for real?

Tapping a leg could very well get you launched into next week, please don’t give “advice” like this when the situation is potentially very serious; this is not a place to experiment with fluffy nonsense. The several people you know who are now dead would probably ag

if you are trying to pick a fight look elsewhere

thank you
 

paddy555

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We were in a field before that the owner kept going giving her apples and we had to leave in the end. Her aggressive behaviour started here.
Today we had a really good training session, then I stopped her eating grass and her behaviour changed completely. She's not exactly starving! The grass is amazing where she is now.
coming back to reality I think you have a serious problem now of a very confident mare who has learnt to bully. Her next trick will be to either stand up and paw or run over someone. Don't ever let her out of your sight and make sure you have your escape route planned in case things go wrong.

First task is to fence the footpath off. You are going to be in serious trouble if she repeats her behaviour with a walker or a dog. Presumably you have insurance.

After that I think it may be beneficial to look at your field and see if something can be reconfigured so that everyone is safe. Can you ask a trainer to visit to asses the situation, make suggestions as to how to keep her and deal with her.
The balance of power has shifted very much from you being the leader to her running things.

I think you need some help to assess the situation and see what can be done. I wouldn't rehome her at the moment but would get someone out so they can see exactly what is going wrong and how to deal with it. With this info. you will be in a better position.
It goes without saying that this will happen again until it is sorted so daughter needs to be kept safe.
 

94lunagem

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I echo what others have already said regarding fencing off your footpath. My footpath is fenced because I had a kicker (if he didn’t want to be caught). He gave plenty of warning but I would have felt awful if he’d kicked an unwitting member of the public who wouldn’t know what his face meant, even if it was their fault approaching him off the footpath etc. Let alone the liability implications.

It sounds to me like a boundaries issue. I’m particularly strict with mine regarding treats and manners, and I know what I can and can’t do and what I can and cannot push now. If I’m poo picking I’m left alone, if I’m mending fences I’m interesting and they come over! So the one who can be over friendly gets brought in before I start jobs I know will peak their interests. Mine aren’t nasty, but one can want to play and doesn’t always respect personal space when she’s excited.

It’s completely understandable you’ve lost your trust in your mare - if I were you I would be taking it as an opportunity to take it right back to step one, i.e. catch and bring in while you’re in the field, and gradually build back up as you assess how things are going. I also turn one of mine out in a leather headcollar 24/7, easier to grab/keep hold of and subconsciously can make you feel a little more in control.

I hope you haven’t been too seriously hurt by the kick.
 

maya2008

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This behaviour started, then continued and worsened in your care. You’ve not been able to fix it and she’s now dangerous. For the sake of your safety and the pony’s future, either send away to a pro (if you can afford it) or very carefully rehome to someone with the knowledge to fix this or the money to send them away.

Now, while the pony is young, is the time to do such things. Wait too long and you’ll have an entrenched habit and a pony headed for the meat man at speed.

I say this having been there - I sent one away who arrived aggressive. I don’t have the reaction time to deal with continuous aggressive behaviour and I am well aware of that. I sent pony off to a pro friend. A few weeks later, pony arrived home like a whole new ‘person’! A bit of money spent, yes, but more worth it than I can possibly describe.
 
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