FIELDS! A YO verses livery perspective

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Moobucket

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So last year all was well. We had some good frosts, a little rain, and the winter paddock held up brilliantly until we switched to the summer paddock.
THIS YEAR it's rained almost endlessly and my field, although it still has grass in it, and has a few tiny patches of dry, appears to be sliding down the hillside in an enormous slick of mud. I have road planing tracks in and out of the field which are getting destroyed and the field is very muddy at the bottom with large pot holes created by the horse. On the yard we have a dry yard (concrete and gravel) and an outdoor arena (beautifully draining) brand new, and roomy stables 12 x 14 at the smallest. I've asked my liveries to be realistic about turn out. Keep it minimal and try and use other options.

However I'm greated with glum faces. Apparently its going to cost them alot in straw and hay... and I have to provide them with other options. I've suggested walking in hand, riding in the arena and turn out in the yard. I'm at a loss. I get the distinct impression they are taking the P.

I'm not sure I understand the logic in turning out in those conditions when one horse is lame and another has terrible mud fever?

What do you think for £25 ppw DIY?
 
As a livery, I personally couldnt stay at a yard where I couldnt turn out as much as I wanted. I fully appreciate keeping your fields in good nick and understand why you would restrict it, but thats my opinion. xx
 
I am a YO, and I have to say, I wouldn't have a yard if I couldn't guarantee turnout all day every day throughout the year.

I have been a livery with restricted winter turnout, and I don't ever want to be responsible for doing that to people.

Yes my winter fields get trashed in the gateways, but they have hardcore on the worst bits and they're rested all summer. Land recovers more quickly than people think - within six weeks the worst of my fields will look lovely again.

I would rather have horses out with no grass and some hay to munch on than not out at all.
 
I think you are too nice !

Put a notice up to say the rain fall this winter has been unprecedented - you are doing your best to ensure you do not have to take the option of CLOSING the fields - and would appreciate if your liveries will WORK WITH YOU - to overcome the current situation - you REALISE this is inconvinent - and appreciate the additonal costs - but some yards close by HAVE CLOSED TURN OUT FOR THE FORESABLE...if any client wishes to discuss the matter then PLEASE BRING YOUR ISSUES TO ME DIRECTLY and I will be happy to discuss them further.

I appreciate your custom, but have only asked you to help me to help you, if you cannot then I appreciate that you will be looking for alternative livery - if you could let me know as soon as possible then I can contact the people on the waiting list.

thank you for all your help
 
Asking people to be realistic is never going to be a good option - you will have to tell them what you want and stick to it. However, I for one picked my current yard because we do have all year turnout.

Best of luck.
 
I personally think that it's your field and your rules. I would rather have turnout but it is an extreme year weather wise and I can't understand my liveries still think that they should turn out what ever. Mine is out 24/7 at the mo and he has 3acres to himself and even so he is trashing the field. Give it a couple more weeks and he will be coming in at night again
 
I would work out how much its going to cost to put right the damage in spring. It may be better not to have the liveries or get rid of those who want to turn out.
Looking at the mud porridge in my fields apart from a leg stretch who would want to turn out?
A short term option is fence off a dry area stick some hestons of straw on it for them to chew on/ lie on and let them trash it. They are out ,they have something to eat and the liveries are not paying for it.
 
I think you are being reasonable but maybe give them a timescale if possible. Are they allowed to turn out in the school for a couple of hours or tie hay nets in there for the ponies?
I've been at a yard which allowed no turn out for a month in the winter, we had a cow court to use instead, there was no school and it was hard work but you get on with it.
We appreciated that if the fields weren't allowed to recover then we would be feeding hay all summer too! :(
 
I personally think if you don't have the land then don't have the liveries! People are paying for the facilities that they need for their horse. To then withdraw that because your fields are a little wet is I'm my view wrong and possibly even a breach if contract.
 
As a livery I don't expect to have to restricted. However I absolutely sympathise that the wet weather is out of your control.

I have also never liveried on a yard that doesn't have adequate land to support the horses living there.
 
well i dont think you will please all the people all the time no matter what you do!
they are lucky you give a damn about saving some ground for the summer for them!
at my yard we have mud paddocks with hard standings and big bales provided by YO) for winter if we want turnout. :)
 
Its your yard and your field so your rules! I think an increase in hay and straw is a fair price to pay rather than fields being trashed and ponies going lame. from experience, if the turnout isn't restricted and the field isn't rested now then it's going to take a long time for it to recover in the future. Do you not have any other field (that is not being rested) or can you not split the field to rest half and have smaller turnout groups perhaps?
 
happyhacking:) said:
I personally think if you don't have the land then don't have the liveries! People are paying for the facilities that they need for their horse. To then withdraw that because your fields are a little wet is I'm my view wrong and possibly even a breach if contract.
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To say the fields are a little wet is a slight understatement this year! I drive fron the north west to London once a week, and half the country is underwater!

OP sounds like a responsible YO who has never had to ration turnout before and is trying to offer alternatives like the school/hardstanding area until things dry out a bit. I keep hearing that this year has been the wettest year on record ever, so I think it is a bit harsh and narrow minded to say that all land recovers in no time and all people that restrict turnout are greedy evil yard owners.
 
Starzaan said:
I am a YO, and I have to say, I wouldn't have a yard if I couldn't guarantee turnout all day every day throughout the year.

I have been a livery with restricted winter turnout, and I don't ever want to be responsible for doing that to people.

Yes my winter fields get trashed in the gateways, but they have hardcore on the worst bits and they're rested all summer. Land recovers more quickly than people think - within six weeks the worst of my fields will look lovely again.

I would rather have horses out with no grass and some hay to munch on than not out at all.
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Nothing to really add to this thread, but just wanted to say from this and other things I've seen you put on here, you sound like a really lovely YO. Your liveries are very lucky :)
 
I would never livery somewhere that restricted turnout. The weather has been awful this year, & our farmer has asked us to be careful with turnout. This means no 24/7 turnout, but 12hrs still. And as half the field was under water at one point, putting hay out on the uphill areas so they stay mainly on the well draining areas on days the ground is very soft. But, some yards do restrict turnout in winter, not something I would move to a yard with, but if its stated clearly to potential clients before moving on fair enough. It's only not on imo if yo suddenly announces it.
 
I really do sympathise but would leave if my horses turn-out was severely restricted or if the fields were that bad however nicely or not nicely you put it. I would find it really stressful if my horse couldn't have at least 4hrs t/o a day in winter preferably more and it's nothing to do with how much it costs.

Although rainfall has been unprecedented this year I can think of many wet winters I've endured but the last few at least in this part of the world have been fairly dry and I think we have all got a bit used to it. This rainfall could happen year on year it would put me off being at that yard.
 
If I had taken my horse to a livery yard expecting, and paying for, year round turnout then I would be most unhappy to be told that I couldn't have that. If you really do feel that your field will not recover if your liveries continue to turnnout, then I think that you should reduce your costs so that they can buy extra hay and bedding. You could also ask them to turnout for a shorter time, if you were able to bring the horses back in, most people have to fit their horses round their working hours and so will be unable to bring in half way through the day. Better still, don't have so many horses on, in future, you are obviously over-stocked.

As Starzaan says the land will recover pretty quickly, it always does.

Thank goodness our horses are at home.
 
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I have 16 acres for 7 horses so I'm not overstocking by any stetch of the imagination. 7 horses are on 5 acres over winter because they come in at night and "they don't want to bring in from the other field in the dark".

Also, my liveries are contractally obliged not to overgraze or poach the fields so I'm also not ripping people off.

Its been really interesting reading peoples responses. It was my understanding that leaving horses in mud wasn't good for their legs. Essentially, I understand wholeheartedly that turn out is important and I am not advocating leaving the horses in their stables, I was just looking for another option from the mud! I don't turn my horse out because he doesn't want to go and when I did put him out he started with mud fever.

I'm bamboozled by some of my liveries responses. Apparently the dry yard is no good as the concrete may damage the horses legs :confused:.
 
This year has been ridiculous and TBH I think owners need to be realistic. My boy is somewhere at the moment where he is on a useable track 24/7 but when he comes back, unless the weather improves dramatically, I think he'll be out for a few hours a day max. I don't want injuries and will just work him every day instead.
 
Moobucket said:
I have 16 acres for 7 horses so I'm not overstocking by any stetch of the imagination. 7 horses are on 5 acres over winter because they come in at night and "they don't want to bring in from the other field in the dark".

Also, my liveries are contractally obliged not to overgraze or poach the fields so I'm also not ripping people off.

Its been really interesting reading peoples responses. It was my understanding that leaving horses in mud wasn't good for their legs. Essentially, I understand wholeheartedly that turn out is important and I am not advocating leaving the horses in their stables, I was just looking for another option from the mud! I don't turn my horse out because he doesn't want to go and when I did put him out he started with mud fever.

I'm bamboozled by some of my liveries responses. Apparently the dry yard is no good as the concrete may damage the horses legs :confused:.[/QUOTE]

Rather than the swamp sucking shoes off and potentially causing tendon damage?! :confused:

I sympathise with you OP. Our fields are shot to bits .. mares has lasted the longest but to be honest i looked at it today and its not got much left in it. The gelding field is just mud now.
People still want/ need to turn out and we havent been restricted yet but the sensible few are now realising its better to keep in and feed more nutritous hay all day and then exercise them rather than turn them out into mud so they all hang around the gate wanting to come in anyway and eat nothing all day!

Good luck, i dont envy you :o
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TinselCat said:
Nothing to really add to this thread, but just wanted to say from this and other things I've seen you put on here, you sound like a really lovely YO. Your liveries are very lucky :)
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Aw, thank you - that's really lovely of you. I opened my own yard after being a livery on several different yards and working for a few big livery yards. I decided that I could take my experience on both sides and open a yard that I would want to keep my horses on. Hopefully I've managed that and everyone's happy!

Would you like a job? You should definitely just come and tell me I'm lovely more often. I'll give you cake.
 
Im a livery on a yard where I have been for 3 years. We normally get turnout all day and in at night in winter but due to the weather this year we are on half day turnout. Some go out in the morning and the rest in the afternoon. Its not ideal but we are doing our best we can. We also have use of the horse walker. So as mine is on afternoon turnout she goes on the walker in the morning most days when mucking out and then out in afternoon for a few hrs. Im lucky as my horse isnt fussed if she out or not. When the weather is really bad and chucking it down they get duvet days (which mine loves).
To be fair I use 1 more haynet a day on this rule than I would if she was out all day and tbh dont really use any more bedding than I would normally so cost wise it not much more for them to be on half day turnout than all day turnout.
 
Starzaan said:
Aw, thank you - that's really lovely of you. I opened my own yard after being a livery on several different yards and working for a few big livery yards. I decided that I could take my experience on both sides and open a yard that I would want to keep my horses on. Hopefully I've managed that and everyone's happy!

Would you like a job? You should definitely just come and tell me I'm lovely more often. I'll give you cake.
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It sounds like it has!

Would my wages be in cake? ..I can live with that :D:eek:
 
In your position and the liveries position who are with you I'd expect it reasonable in this unprecedented weather conditions to work together to find a suitable solution.

Trashing the fields even more at this stage is only going to cause problems further down the line.

I'm fortunate in that I have access to other grazing when the one our horses are currently in is over poached/too muddy etc. but I'm still restricting the amount they have to go at using electric fencing to help to prolong it longer before we have to move. I'd also anyday prefer to have my horses not stood in mud. The concrete I believe will be less detrimental to them in current conditions.

I'm also amazed at some of the responses on here. Anyone with half a brain can see this is not a normal situation to be in this year. Some of our fields are well waterlogged that have never had even a puddle in them in previous years.

I could understand some of the reactions if you had simply ruled the horses have to be kept in end of. You have my sympathy.
 
Moobucket said:
So last year all was well. We had some good frosts, a little rain, and the winter paddock held up brilliantly until we switched to the summer paddock.
THIS YEAR it's rained almost endlessly and my field, although it still has grass in it, and has a few tiny patches of dry, appears to be sliding down the hillside in an enormous slick of mud. I have road planing tracks in and out of the field which are getting destroyed and the field is very muddy at the bottom with large pot holes created by the horse. On the yard we have a dry yard (concrete and gravel) and an outdoor arena (beautifully draining) brand new, and roomy stables 12 x 14 at the smallest. I've asked my liveries to be realistic about turn out. Keep it minimal and try and use other options.

However I'm greated with glum faces. Apparently its going to cost them alot in straw and hay... and I have to provide them with other options. I've suggested walking in hand, riding in the arena and turn out in the yard. I'm at a loss. I get the distinct impression they are taking the P.

I'm not sure I understand the logic in turning out in those conditions when one horse is lame and another has terrible mud fever?

What do you think for £25 ppw DIY?
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My you're brave posting that on this forum! :eek:

fwiw I entirely agree with you. Thankfully my liveries totally understand that neither their horses nor mine go out on grass in the winter (and I've got 70 acres of it so no, I'm not overstocked). We do have turnout pens however, so they get a turn in those each day.

Those of you who think you should get it all for £25 a week should try paying for a yard/facilities and managing it yourselves. TBH I get so fed up with the anti YO/let's moan about livery yard threads on here, and the constant advice to move!! instantly!! because things aren't quite right. That's why I don't do DIY ;)
 
and what happens when you let them trash your fields ? --come summer you have no grass and they leave for somewhere that restricted winter turnout so will have grass for summer!! :eek:
 
I'm one who is really big on turnout, horses must be out as much as possible BUT I've restricted my own turnout for my horses at the min, not due to lack of land, but a)it gets dangerous when they're hooning about fighting over food in the deep mud and I'd rather restricted turnout than 3 months boxrest (ad lib hay in field is far too expensive and they would all become fat gets) and b)they just don't want to be out in it very long. They all whinny to be let out in the morning then before I've even closed it they're at the gate!

The problem with asking people to respect the fields and limit turnout is that they don't really mind about your fields, as other posters have said, they'd just move. Regardless of the fact you may have provided a great service for several years, all of a sudden the weather (which you really cannot control) decrees that turnout is now dangerous so rather than work with you they go elsewhere. Their money, their horse, their choice. Your income, your fields, your choice.

In your situation I would probably say those who want their horses out in mud all day, leave them to it. If they would rather potential vets bills than hay and straw bills so be it. I don't personally see the problem with having horses on a concrete yard, unless they're likely to be galloping about in which case I'd prefer to put out in the school, if available.

Managing herds of horses is always a balance and we often have to compromise. Only you can decide what you are more willing to compromise on and then your liveries have to decide if they are happy with that or not.
 
As a fellow YO I am in exactly the same position. I cannot afford to let the fields get trashed - what it would cost me to recover them would outweigh any profits made.

For £25 per week my liveries get 1 acre each, their own stable, shared use of a large barn and feed room, secure tack room, 50 x 30 outdoor school, and access to off road hacking straight from the yard.

For those that say you shouldn't have livery's if you can't provide the grazing:

- The weather has been exceptional this year, and even my normally well draining paddocks have become a quagmire over the last few weeks. I even had to restrict turnout for a short period over the summer, which I have never had to do before.

- To buy an acre you are looking at spending between £2000 and £5000 depending on what part of the country you are in - so for £25 per week I think the liveries are getting a good deal.

- Any prospective livery is shown what grazing is available - if they do not think it is enough for their needs they need to find a yard with more, but should expect to pay more too.

Currently I have asked my liveries to bring in no later than 2pm, and insist that if there horses have a 'hoon', they go and walk in the skid marks. The reward will be quality 24/7 turnout over the summer mnths.

I have a school and offer this as alternative turnout. I also have a spare paddock that I have been saving for spring and will offer this to the liveries once the ground has dried up, but will be asking them to pay extra to use it.

Our fields still 'look' green, although are looking a bit sorry for themselves, but am hoping if we get a dry spell can run the harrow and roller over the poached bits.

Roll on spring!
 
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The livery yard I'm at normally has all year turn out, not loads of grazing, but well managed. In the last 10 days they've asked up to restrict our turnout to 5 hours a day, not ideal, but better than most. It caused a few moans and groans, but generally people have just got on with it.

FWIW I pay £50 (with a 4-5 minute walk to my field) a week DIY, with haylage inc.... :)
 
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