CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Don't blame yourself, if it's in them it's in them and sometimes you can't argue with the genes.
Fighting dogs....sigh.....getting worse
- Thread starter toffeeyummy
- Start date
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
Just an unhelpful two penneth worth!
I have three dogs, two terriers and a GR and there's never been a cross word uttered between them, so its not always bad. Sorry if anyone has already said this - QR!
I have three dogs, two terriers and a GR and there's never been a cross word uttered between them, so its not always bad. Sorry if anyone has already said this - QR!
springtime13
Well-Known Member
I too think the smooth coated males are the most aggressive. I will never have another patterdale, and anyone who asks after our boy - he is very smart looking I try my hardest to dissuade them from having one themselves. I think it is an interesting point that Yas makes about them seeking approval from people. My mum and dad hate our boy and have many times demanded he was PTS. He hates them back and will growl if they come near him. Makes us look stupid when we try and stick up for him and convince them he has improved 
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
I too think the smooth coated males are the most aggressive. I will never have another patterdale, and anyone who asks after our boy - he is very smart looking I try my hardest to dissuade them from having one themselves. I think it is an interesting point that Yas makes about them seeking approval from people. My mum and dad hate our boy and have many times demanded he was PTS. He hates them back and will growl if they come near him. Makes us look stupid when we try and stick up for him and convince them he has improved
I have exactly the same. Unfortunately (and I don't find it amusing) he nipped a friend on the bottom, but this same friend was 'chased out of the paddock' by my 2 yr old Dales twice infact - he's pushy but has never chased me ?!
She is definately very very nervy and animals just sense it.If he sees her through the glass door he growls at her - the dislike is mutual. He knew he had done wrong when he nipped her and he skulked for days and he wouldn't make eye contact. I nearly had him pts, but the kids were mortified as was my mother, so he is on reprieve.
My aged mother though (nearly 81 yrs old) and built like a sparrow adores him and dotes on him when she comes to visit. I am always worried as clearly I wouldn't want her nipped or bitten, but I know it won't happen.
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. I have a patterdale dog (neutered) who is 4 years old now and finally maturing.
He is very aggressive with other dogs so I never let him off a lead in a public place. He accompanies me to the horses everyday though and is my loyal shadow in that. He is a nervy dog - he always seems to be on edge and seeking approval. I have 2 other dogs - a lab x springer bitch whom he adores and a Sckipperkee he will fight with. Both are neutered but neither will back down in a spat and the Sckip always comes off worse as the patterdale has such a strong mouth and teeth.He has been aggressive to people too - if someone is nervous it seems to make him aggressive probably fear aggression. I did attend dog training, but it is not easy keeping the attention of a pd who is dog aggressive, I don't care what anyone says.
My pd will trot up to the sckips crate and then walk away and then trot up to it again repeatedly doing this to insight the sckip - the sckip always starts growling as you can imagine - I think I would do the same. Funny though as soon as hubby is in the kitchen he wouldn't dare because he knows that hubby will not tolerate that behaviour for a minute.
We had a rough coated patterdale bitch before Coco well actually she was still alive for some time after we got him. She was perfect but hubby had a couple of issues when he first got her then she became the best farrier's dog ever and was completely trustworthy to just be let out and to kill rats at every yard. So I blame her for us believing patterdale's were easy. I strongly believe the smooth coated ones are a different bag
As much as I love my pd I would not have another.
Just to add that everyone i know who has had a patterdale has had aggression problems of one sort or another - it's definately in the breed.
Very good and interesting post.
I am not a patterdale fan, im not really a terrier fan, I have taken a patterdale on (who had serious aggression issues, left the owner scared badly) I/we (my OH have turned this dog around (I did not find it hard to do I have to say, she is very bright and responsive), she is running with my 10 dogs from going from latching onto a dog and having to be prised off!! (not a wrong word with my lot
, she is impeccably well behaved now, I have her recall spot on, I have taught her where her place is within my household and not confused her in to believing she is a "little human" which is where her previous home went horribly wrong imo.The comment re your hubby and your dog basically "regarding his presence" and not displaying her "goading behaviour" toward other dog where he is, is KEY for for me! in any dog let alone a breed such as a patterdale, some respect and understanding of what you "want from the dog" and making it clear!
The patterdale I have, took me 2 months to get to the stage she is at, (my issues now however) is how in the heck can I let her go for her to be ruined again and revert back to being a monster!! I have a 2 choices.... let her go try and get that sensible home that will listen to instruction (not easy) or (well I wont go any further) as don't wanna take over the OP, but she wont stay (I have 10 dogs and no life, I have made the mistake of taking on 2 many rejects and its ain't my job too keep doing this! you have to be realistic.
Op my advice would be as stated already, get the vet check rule out health issues!, then introduce new firm rules and boundaries to the point you can indeed stop the attacks esp in your presence but for safety crate the patterdale whenever unsupervised and be sensible. try not o let your heart rule you head and again I agree with Alecs post (must be the meds Im on)!
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Smooth coats patties are very often going back to Brian Nuttals dogs,his are very serious working dogs.If their instinct is channeled into working underground or at least ratting it gives them an outlet,if that is never there they will find another way to let off steam.Your pattie probably despises the new puppy,even as babies lakies and patties stand up for themselves in the litter,so a submissive playful puppy just is`nt his choice and would irritate.I love them,but boy they are both hard work and highly intelligent.
toffeeyummy
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I am feeling much less sorry for myself now and more positive. My pat is well behaved, he knows his place in the family I have always been very strict with him knowing how they can be. Thinking it over today I can tell he doesn't like the pup - and that's it! A bit of information I had left out.....and now I know this is probably vital information (don't shout at me) is that I did hand rear the lab pup from a week old. I was always extremely careful to keep small furry squeaky week old pup from pat but now I see he was probably jealous and made his mind up then. He always watched me feed pup with a glint in his eye so perhaps biding his time? But once pup was mobile he happily played with her and she would lay on his bed etc with no problem? Weird. My plan is, vet tomorrow then continue crating/muzzling/keeping apart. He goes away at the end of oct and if my brother in law gets on well we may well talk about him keeping him. But otherwise he stays with me and we do our best to resolve this. Even if it means kennelling the pat outside on farm (he is an excellent ratter and my shadow whilst out and about with the horses) then that's how it will be. He will never be left alone with the lab pup again. Hopefully this is the way forward now. Thank you for your input 
toffeeyummy
Well-Known Member
Oh and yes, patts are excellent judge of characters I find
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
Earlier in the thread I believe someone asked you about resources (food, toys etc) that may have been the cause of the attack. I think in the third instance you have your answer above. For a pat, any small furry should be his, from his point of view, and a lab in the way or between him and his gpigs would be fair game.
Not excusing his behaviour, but triggers are often far more subtle than we sometimes think.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
I really think this is key - they are bred as working dogs foremost and not pets. In a nutshell I would describe them as a serious and experienced dog owner's dog!
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Spot on. These terriers were bred to work alone and to kill foxes below ground as they were often worked where it is impossible to dig. In my youth, I bred and worked them. It was always best to kennel a dog and a bitch together. Kennel three together and one day there would be just two. You cannot expect to eradicate centuries of selective breeding for work in these dogs -- or many other breeds of working dogs come to that. Stick to the breeds known to make good pets and you will have a less stressful life!
JRTs, on the other hand, were bred to bolt a fox unharmed for the hunt or to bay until diggers could get down to them. They probably make much better pets (if you can put up with the yapping!).toffeeyummy
Well-Known Member
His behaviour as a pet is good. He is very friendly, has never shown aggression to people but I would never trust him with anything small and furry. He is brilliant with my children, they play with him all the time and he is forever doing some sort of show jumping course. I don't trust him with their friends as he is uncomfortable when 'crowded out' but then he just gets put away if friends are round or if they're playing outside he is absolutely fine to run around with them. I knew what I was taking on with a pat, I already have an older one I know they're not for the novice dog owner and they are ruled by me, with a firm hand. I also know that they are the most loving, faithful dog I have ever met and actually the brightest and best behaved dog I've ever had. My issue was the sudden attack on the pup when previously it had all been going so well. I now know with the help of all your input that it must have been the guinea pigs as the trigger and also the pup is a weak member of the pack and the pat was just being an aggressive sod and reminding this pup who was above her. I will not rehome him, just understand him better and make sure I don't take any risks. He has had a full health check from the vets and generally seems a much happier dog, probably because I am feeling less anxious and more confident. So thank you everyone x
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Guinea pigs were put on this earth for pattie or lakie amusement..or for eating in South America.I did once have a couple of guys in a flat with a "house rabbit" applying for one of my working lakie pups..I just laughed at them,told them to get a cavapoo or something.I am amazed your guinea pigs are still present to be honest.
Time people remembered what dogs are bred for and stop the fluffy nonsense.
Time people remembered what dogs are bred for and stop the fluffy nonsense.
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Fells, Borders, Border-Lakelands, Lakelands, etc. are all out of the same box and, I agree, delightful characters with a "hail well met" attitude. But they have a single mindedness I have never met in any other breed of working dog. One of my youngsters met a fox (above ground) for the first time and advanced towards it with tail wagging to make friends. The fox bit him on the nose! That was it. For ever after, every fox on this earth had to be dead!
I sold one pup to an old couple on their insistence with a dire warning that it would kill the family cat. They said they'd had Fells before and the cat would be safe. They came back a year later just to reassure me that both the dog and the cat were still alive and living amicably together. So, it can be done! But I suspect the story would have been different if the cat had touched the pup on the nose with a claw (and I think the owners knew that which is why things continued in harmony!).
I sold one pup to an old couple on their insistence with a dire warning that it would kill the family cat. They said they'd had Fells before and the cat would be safe. They came back a year later just to reassure me that both the dog and the cat were still alive and living amicably together. So, it can be done! But I suspect the story would have been different if the cat had touched the pup on the nose with a claw (and I think the owners knew that which is why things continued in harmony!
).