Fighting dogs

Clodagh

Clodagh

Playing chess with pigeons
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We have had a few noisy moments between Pen and Ffee. Pen is a nuisance dog, she pester pester pesters if allowed (it's not allowed if we see it) until she gets a reaction. Well Ffee has just finished her second season and has now decided to give the reaction Penny thought she wanted - except now she doesn't like it. Pen has been 'attacked' by Tawny twice too so you would think she would learn.
We've had to be careful as there are set times when it happens, waiting to go back in the house for breakfast, out on walks if we get to open spaces and so on.
Night before last I took them all out last thing and there was a proper kick off in the long grass. I waded in and yelled and they stopped but now they get taken out seperately, blacks together and yellows together, it is interesting how much more relaxed they all are, there was obviously more going on than we spotted.
It is a bloody nuisance though!
 
Ive no idea how we'd cope with this. We've never had this happen, but I suspect that has been good luck rather than good management!
 
We’ve never had fighting house dogs before, and it is a PITA. I hope things will calm down. They still have their main walks together, we just have to be alert.
 
Hope they calm down. I keep hearing how bitches don’t get on as well as dogs. I think Brig and Jake had one spat in 7 years, don’t think puss and Bear have ever had cross words, play growling or a warning mutter if one doesn’t want to be used as a pillow, but they’re very bonded. I don’t know what I’d do if they fought.
 
Two of our bitches can be kennelled and fed together but the smallest least assertive one will take a pop at the bigger one if the bigger one plays rough with anyone or runs alongside the smaller one whilat whilst she is running.
I am very watchful, they had one spat about some food outside the kennel a while ago anf the smaller bitch appears to bear a grudge.
 
Cinnamontoast said:
Hope they calm down. I keep hearing how bitches don’t get on as well as dogs. I think Brig and Jake had one spat in 7 years, don’t think puss and Bear have ever had cross words, play growling or a warning mutter if one doesn’t want to be used as a pillow, but they’re very bonded. I don’t know what I’d do if they fought.
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I must admit that I don't understand it. We have had multiple related bitches since I was 12, (so 53 yrs) and up to 7, related and unrelated kept together when sister and I bought this place. Some arrived as puppies, others as rehomed adults. We have never had them fight except on the memorable occasion when the first 2 litter sisters blocked the hallway snapping at each other because one bumped into the hindquarters of the other when she was in season. There were no injuries but it took a bit of sorting out because of the lack of space.

Could it be hormonal issues that are causing the tension? Am I right in thinking that your older 2 are spayed but the youngest isn't?
 
There's lots of factors, genetics, natural proclivities, pack dynamics, including how the dogs view themselves, each other and the humans in their house and hormones lol.
Dogs generally only do what they think will improve their life/position.
Have had a number of dogs who fought, and a number that didn't, neither my mother or I are particularly strong/dominant people physically/energy wise and have the facilities to keep dogs apart so that's what we've done if the problem arises unless one dog was made deeply unhappy by the other's presence/things got too stressful.
I don't want to be forced to be pally/spend all my time with someone I don't like, so don't expect dogs to either.
I have two dogs here that live in the same house, separately, it's more work for me but less stressful for the dogs/one dog in particular.
 
You have my sympathy - the boy spaniels had a thing going on for a while and it was a pain in the arse to keep them separated. I didn't see the behaviour for the longest time as they never did it in my house. That's because big dog #1 was around, in which case she only had to give them A Look, which was instantly more effective than any yelling or wading in I had to do when they were alone.

Thankfully she seems happy in her role as Fun Police and I've since appreciated how she also subtly controls the dynamic between big dog #2 and little dog too. There's loads more going on than we're aware of when it comes to 'pack' dynamics.
 
I had a Kerry Blue bitch who would pick a fight with another Kerry Blue bitch (several trips to the vet to get one or other of them stitched up) but no one else. I wanted to get a boy Kerry and asked my vets advice if she would turn on him, vet advised she would be fine with male pup which she was.
Was also fine with the Lurcher bitches she lived with. I have a lovely picture of her with a very small Lurcher sitting on her head, she loved that puppy and mothered her, gave her a little telling off if puppy was being annoying but would turn on the other Kerry if she dared to tell the puppy off.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Ie.

Could it be hormonal issues that are causing the tension? Am I right in thinking that your older 2 are spayed but the youngest isn't?
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It could well be, and in fact today they seem more relaxed, but maybe that is because I am now the fun police! Pc Funstop here... Ffee is just coming out of season and OMG she has been a wet weekend.
We never do leave more than 2 together alone and never have. The fights haven't been bloody, thank goodness, just a lot of noise.
 
blackcob said:
Thankfully she seems happy in her role as Fun Police and I've since appreciated how she also subtly controls the dynamic between big dog #2 and little dog too. There's loads more going on than we're aware of when it comes to 'pack' dynamics.
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I so much agree with this, Sash the lurcher could control a room with one flick of an eye.
 
Clodagh said:
It could well be, and in fact today they seem more relaxed, but maybe that is because I am now the fun police! Pc Funstop here... Ffee is just coming out of season and OMG she has been a wet weekend.
We never do leave more than 2 together alone and never have. The fights haven't been bloody, thank goodness, just a lot of noise.
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I wonder if separating them is causing part of the problem, every time they are all back together the hierarchy has to be re-established.
 
Bitches fighting is a pain in the arse .

And interesting that you say if you separate them in colours they are happier this has always been my experience with labs they are best in colour groups I always thought I imagined it .

I would a little put everyone in their place for a while if you are more of a dictator I find they settle. Be on everyone case a bit .
Are they easier when they are working ?
 
Goldenstar said:
Bitches fighting is a pain in the arse .

And interesting that you say if you separate them in colours they are happier this has always been my experience with labs they are best in colour groups I always thought I imagined it .

I would a little put everyone in their place for a while if you are more of a dictator I find they settle. Be on everyone case a bit .
Are they easier when they are working ?
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Interesting, we have had all 3 colours in multiples and never noticed that but we always have an 'I'm in charge' ethos. We have noticed with the current 3 that the Rottweiler , although she is lovely with the yellow Lab, prefers to play with the black Lab. the Labs are litter sisters.
The Rottweilers as pups spent time with an elderly black Lab and they always showed interest in black Labs when out and about.
 
It’s kind of interesting in our pack that the sable GSDs play together, the beardies play with each other and the black, white, tan smooth coated collies play with one another leaving the mainly black and black/whites to do their own thing.
 
But we also have one poor bugger that everyone picks on - from the smallest pup to the oldest matriarch. I’ve no idea what he does to deserve it!
 
Several years ago we had a young yellow Lab (bought as a pup) introduced to a mixed group of Labs (yellow, black and brown) and JRTs, then a rehomed Rottweiler of a very similar age was brought in. The 2 were firm friends and played together for the rest of the Rottweiler's life until she was pts aged 9, even though younger pups also joined the pack.
 
Moobli said:
Could definitely be hormone related but bitches do tend to hold a grudge whereas dogs seem to just move on, so it’s something I’d keep a close eye on and try to avoid/remove any known triggers and jump on any behaviour you deem unacceptable.
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We have it down pat at the moment, one is to heel at trigger points. I don't care if it isn't fair, they broke da rules they pay da price!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I wonder if separating them is causing part of the problem, every time they are all back together the hierarchy has to be re-established.
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We have always seperated all dogs we have had when we aren't home. Having been involved with hounds in the past and seen what two dogs can do to one dog (Sash my lurcher helped to kill an old dog when she backed up it's housemate in a fight, I don't know if anyone remembers that on here, it was awful). They are all in sight of each other.
 
Goldenstar said:
Bitches fighting is a pain in the arse .

And interesting that you say if you separate them in colours they are happier this has always been my experience with labs they are best in colour groups I always thought I imagined it .

I would a little put everyone in their place for a while if you are more of a dictator I find they settle. Be on everyone case a bit .
Are they easier when they are working ?
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They are mainly colour seperated as the blacks are OH's and the yellows mine. It also works as the playful ones are left with ones that don't play, as it seems that playing leads to overstimulation and dummy spitting. Actually Pen (black) and Ffee (yellow) used to play for hours, it was really sweet. All breakfast time (ours) they used to lie on their backs and mouth joust. No longer. :confused:
And I do dictator!
When working there is no trouble once they are all in the pick up, but getting in has to be policed and always has.
 
twiggy2 said:
I find the bitches more sensitive in general when in season, Reeva in particular is very cuddly and needy when in season.
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Honestly, Ffee is a cuddly dog at the best of times but she has been like a moonstruck teenager! I am getting her hips and elbows done this summer and then will decide whether to spay after she has worked a shooting season.
 
Moobli said:
But we also have one poor bugger that everyone picks on - from the smallest pup to the oldest matriarch. I’ve no idea what he does to deserve it!
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Everyone has always picked on Brandy (oldest black girl). Not ours but if you meet another dog that isn't friendly they always go for Pand. If she was an only dog she would still be bottom of the pecking order! She just gives off victim vibes I think. She actually gets on ok with all our dogs as they don't see her as worthy of a reaction.
 
My little hound is so lovely and everyone seems to get on with her, except occasionally my spaniel. I actually think a lot stemmed from the hound being too nice when spanner was a puppy - shes utterly spoiled and entitled because she was never put in her place by the older dog. Either way occasionally she gets a bit narky, either when shes tired and/or overstimulated, or when she wants to resource guard me. Rarely goes beyond a bit of stillness and eye balling these days but it's happened on and off since she was about 18 months they're now 9 and 10 and as long as I squash it quickly with a raised eyebrow or similar we manage fine
 
When Pen has upped her game, when OH took them out first thing he walked round a corner and came face to face with a dobermann. Pen promptly launched herself at it, didn't even say 'hi'. Dobie, quite fair enough, decided to reply. Luckily the other owner was not far behind and both stopped with a bellow.
I think it is the turning point for home and breakfast and she was on a bit of a mission. Luckily our other three pacifists stood behind OH and waited, and dobie owners other dog did the same.
She is now being reined in even further.
 
Clodagh said:
When Pen has upped her game, when OH took them out first thing he walked round a corner and came face to face with a dobermann. Pen promptly launched herself at it, didn't even say 'hi'. Dobie, quite fair enough, decided to reply. Luckily the other owner was not far behind and both stopped with a bellow.
I think it is the turning point for home and breakfast and she was on a bit of a mission. Luckily our other three pacifists stood behind OH and waited, and dobie owners other dog did the same.
She is now being reined in even further.
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How old is she again Clodagh?
 
Moobli said:
How old is she again Clodagh?
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She is 3. Spayed.
I will speak to the vet when she has her jabs but I think it is a combination of things
1. She has always been a bit of a bully but Brandy and Tawny have just never risen.
2. For the last year she has had Arch Enemy No 1, stepsons Irish terrier, living in the farmyard and they have total hate for each other. They do not interact at all now but have done a couple of times when IT first came here.
3. She is now trying to bully Ffee like she does Tawny and Ffee is entire, a different kettle of fish and not taking it.
Out at work she is fine, although she is the only one that will mug a bird off one of our others if she can, so can't be worked alongside another.
 
Interesting dynamics!

The youngsters relentlessly took the mick out of Brig, he was immediately bottom of the pack. He would never cause or start a fight, but was quite handy at defending himself if another dog had a go.

Zak aka werewolf will start on any dog but will never approach one. Unfortunately, Bear is the enforcer, his brother’s champion, but stops as soon as he’s told, unlike Zak who has proper red mist/berserker mindset. Oddly, he’s the one that winds up Bear. They never ever fight, but Zak likes to wind up a Bear by nicking a toy or pawing at him very occasionally. I think any additions would definitely be a huge issue, so we’re waiting til they’re both gone before contemplating any more.
 
I was always told to give the dog something to do immediately after any skirmish. It's the last thing you feel like doing but apparently it stops the dog immediately exiting the situation thinking 'well, I won that one, ya boo sucks, seeya next time, loser'...etc etc ;)
So when my dog was launched on my another (he had been minding his own business) and my trainer had to wade in and pull them apart, he ordered us both to opposite ends of the car park to do herlwork, sit/down/stand etc etc.
 
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