Filled legs despite 24/7 access to paddock and herd life

[supsup]

Have any of you ever come across a case of filled legs that was not obviously caused by being stabled/lack of movement?

My gelding and I moved back to Germany a few months ago, and unfortunately, he's now having filled legs on a fairly regular basis. They go down within minutes of taking him out for some exercise, so I'm pretty sure it is nothing more serious than "classic" filled legs. However, this is not at all normal for him. He's always lived out 24/7, but even when spending competition weekends in a small, stable-sized electric pen, he's never had problems with filled legs. He now lives in a small herd of 5 horses on a surfaced paddock, about the same size as a 20x40 school, with access to grazing during the day, so it's not as though he's suddenly spending time in a stable, and according to the yard owners, he does move about and doesn't just stand rooted to the spot.

Since literally everything has changed in his life, I don't have the faintest clue what might have caused him to become so prone to filled legs. Clearly movement does play a role, as the legs go down the moment he walks out for 5-10min, but I would swear he's not suddenly moving much less than he's done in his previous life. Have any of you come across a case like this before, and found a clear cause? Vet appointment is now made, to rule out any underlying virus/infection etc., but I don't think that's a likely scenario, given that he is otherwise absolutely fine in himself.

 

[meleeka]

How old is he?

 

[supsup]

He's 17 now. But I'd say he's no less fit now than he was 6 months ago, and the filled legs started after he move, so I'm a bit reluctant to put it down to 'old age'. In fact, the first time I noticed them was during the first two weeks, when he was still confined to a small area in the paddock, to get to know the others over the fence, before joining in. At the time, I put it down to the heat (35+C) and confinement, but he's been out with the group now for weeks, and the weather has gotten much cooler, the ground softer again after some rain (I had started to wonder about too much riding on hard ground...), so I've run out of obvious excuses/reasons.

 

[meleeka]

Could it be the change in diet? I vaguely remember protein plays a part, but haven’t really looked into it.

 

[be positive]

Could it be the change in diet? I vaguely remember protein plays a part, but haven’t really looked into it.

A change in diet can definitely cause legs to fill, in the old days when they stood in on Sundays it was almost expected they had big legs on monday due to the protein levels and restricted movement, this is obviously not the same but could well be due to higher quality grazing/ hay or feed.

It can be due to a sluggish lymphatic system, usually it would go once on regular turnout but not always, a combination of this and a diet change would be my guess and that once you get it moved it should stop happening, it is breaking the cycle that can prove tricky if it is something you cannot change that is causing it.

I found this really good for one I had that kept filling up despite changing feed and plenty of turnout, it took a few weeks to get them fully down but once down they got better and better and I gradually stopped using the herbs.

https://www.hiltonherbs.com/cleavers-and-marigold-en

 

[supsup]

I've also wondered about the diet, but there's a limited amount I can do about that. The yard owner makes (and also sells) his own hay. In fact the turnout areas (quite mixed/weedy, definitely not high-yield pasture) are cut for hay in the spring before being grazed. They deliberately got what I'd call quite woody, scrubby stuff (weeds/wildflowers) mixed in with their hay for some time over summer to nibble on. Something I was quite in favour of, being a bit worried that my boy would explode on ad-lib access to hay. (The horses are offered hay alongside daytime turnout all summer). The fact that he's not put on too much weight despite having access at all times actually suggests that the nutritional content of the hay can't be all that high. I guess if there's something in the hay (be that a particular plant, or something affecting quality), it could well be the same in hay and pasture. I've not seen any evidence of problems with digestions though. I guess another small "aside" is that he's had a small, circular wound on his lip for a bit over a week now which doesn't really want to heal up. I did wonder if it could have been a burn of some sort (plant?), or whether it was simply a small cut in an awkward place for healing (getting irritated during eating). Or maybe something systemic that keeps him from healing more quickly?
His bucket feed has also changed, since brands are different here. All horses are given their buckets in the morning (containing rolled oats as standard), and owners can opt to prepare tins with extras to be tipped in. Mine is getting a minimum (small handful) of oats, plus a pelleted balancer, another small handful of a musli type feed (for palatability), and his usual joint supplement (still same as in the UK). I left out the loose salt for the first months, but reintroduced that recently on the hunch that he might be lacking in electrolytes (no difference). The balancer was picked to have ingredient levels similar to what he had before.
I could certainly experiment with the bucket feed and leave things out, but to be quite honest, I wouldn't know where to start!
I think I'll probably wait and see if the vet can find anything in the way of liver/kidney function or any other obvious problems. Otherwise, I might start to do some leave-out experiments on his bucket feed.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes my mare has had this previously when the grass flushed and on the recommendation of the vet I cut all hard feed and stabled at night. It seems counter-intuitive but it did work. I was told that it was too much protein.

 

[supsup]

Interesting. If that's the case, I guess things should improve once the fields are closed for the winter, and the horses are confined to the paddock (no more grass).

 

[Goldenstar]

Lots of things cause filled legs
All legs filled in an older horse may be the first signs of heart failure I would want his heart listened too if he where mine

 

[ester]

a 20x40 space is pretty small for 5 horses so I would wonder if he really is moving as much as before.

 

[Carrottom]

Could it be a skin reaction to the paddock surface?

 

[supsup]

a 20x40 space is pretty small for 5 horses so I would wonder if he really is moving as much as before.

True, the winter turnout area isn't that large. On the other hand, he has spent many a weekend in a stable-sized electric paddock without getting filled legs, and during spring-time, the field area allowed often wasn't much bigger than an arena either (to limit grass intake). So while I agree he's probably moving less at the new yard when not out on the grass, I still would not have expected him to get filled legs because of it.

Not sure about a skin reaction - I did of course consider some sort of infection/mud fever or similar, but then I would expect there to be signs of inflammation (heat), and for the legs to stay swollen rather than go down with only a few minutes of purposeful walking. The surface is sand/dirt, so nothing special as far as I can tell.
Anyway, hopefully more answers after tomorrow's vet appointment.

 

[mini-eventer]

I agree 20 x 40 is small for 5 horses, you say he has spent many weekends in a stable sized paddock but if he is having prolonged period in the 20 x 40 that may have an impact. But Also get his heart checked just in case

 

[pastit]

Just seen this so I'm a bit late, but my horse is 15 and has started to have filled hinds this winter. I have just moved yard to a fully rubber matted stable with bedmax, and when I saw 'surfaced paddock', I do wonder whether the impact on the hinds is not enough in an older horse to flush the lymphs. Mine is out 24/7 in summer and 9hrs in winter. The old stable was half rubbered in the front, straw at the back. Obviously the grass is different so it will be interesting to see if things change when the grass goes in winter. Hay and feed from the same source, so no change there.