Filly a bit handy with her backend..?

[SweetieHorse]

I have a super 16 month old filly who is affectionate and good to handle, lead, tie up, brush (including back legs and tail) and also for the farrier. She is however very naughty about kicking. She double barelled me at 10 months shortly after arriving. I grumbled her and thought that would be the end of it. She then kicked the handyman but we put this down to him walking through the field with stock food (she is very possessive over food/buckets). She then kicked a friend's daughter unprovoked in the field and tonight she immediately squealed and swung her bum on me when I tapped her on the nose when she nipped me. While trying not to over-handle her I have spent time on ground work, teaching her to lead, back up,respect my space etc. I would really appreciate any further positive suggestions as so far the advice I have received ranges from beating her up to giving her lots of love to bond with her and obviously what I have tried so far isn't working!

 

[metalmare]

I doubt you can over-handle a 16 month old... the more handling the better!! I had a NF that was a kicker as a weanling... his was a trust issue and with more handling and time and LOVE the kicking stopped.

One thing I did try, which I think came from a Richard Maxwell book on handling youngsters, was using a short whip as an extension of my arm and asking him to move his quarters over, gently, whilst restricting his movement on a halter. This creates a kind of turn on the forehand effect. The horse moves away from the pressure and as his head comes towards your arm he gets a rub. So not only does the pressure cease when he comes to you, but he also gets fussed. You are the bringer of all things good. I've used this with two foals and it has worked wonders for trust and bonding, simple though it is. It is powerful though and to be used with care.

 

[SweetieHorse]

Thanks metalmare, I would say that my filly's kicking is more out of temper than a trust issue (she can be an opinionated little madam at times!) and does seem to be related to food. That is a very good suggestion though and I will give it a try.

 

[metalmare]

Hmmm, I've only ever had colts, not fillies and I've had to deal with fear and then later testosterone, but never any sort of bad will, so I don't think I can comment much more on your girl.

I guess the usual rules apply: kind, firm, consistent. Make sure everyone is aware and kept safe and that if a reprimand is given it is immediate and for the right reasons. Oh, and newspaper stuffed down the wellies cushions the blow if she's kicking at shin height.

 

[kerrieberry2]

we've had a simliar issue with my friends mare this summer!

She would back up at people in the field a kick out!

we got advice on it and have been advised to not give her treats at all as she was starting to see people as a vending machine and when she wasn't getting what she was used to getting she was doing what we'd do if a vending machine didn't give us our sweets we were asking for! kicking/pushing etc to get the item out!

was just food treats, it was scratches that she enjoyed! my friend would stand in the field and give her a good scratch on her neck, back and bum and she thought that turning her bum on other people would give the same result! but obviously just scared people and when she didn't get the response she was after, she'd kick!

not sure if this is similar to your mare but it seems to have made a big difference for my friends mare!

and I agree with carrying a whip to shoe her off if she does back up at you!

 

[JennyNZ]

Sweetiehorse, I have a mare who was/is exactly the same. I have a permanent hoof print in my thigh thanks to her.

Food is a huge issue for her too, and if I am feeding all the horses together I have to set things up so she finishes first and the others don't push her out of her feed. It's a really big deal for her - and if she starts to worry about it she takes it out on me. I guess it's just a survival mechanism - if you don't get enough food, you die.

Handling on the ground when she was younger was all about confidence. It isn't that she is dirty, it's more of an I'll get you, before you get me thing. I found hosing her hind legs helped - she could kick as much as she liked and got nowhere.

She is 7 now and has been out competing (endurance) for a couple of years. A BIG red ribbon in her tail has been a must - but you can't help stupid people Again it has been a confidence issue with her - if she feels threatened from behind by another horse she will kick. Having said that she has improved dramatically with age and experience and she always gives me plenty of warning.

Good luck with your girl.

 

[Foxhunter49]

Kicking in my book is a definite NO NO!

You can say what you like about her being well handled but, if she is aggressive when there is fed around then she is not being respectful at all times.

I would, if she turned her backside towards me, giver her such a crack across the back legs with a whip that she would wonder what the heck had happened.

I feed several yearlings in a loose barn and not one of them would ever dare to do anything other than stand back when I walk in with the feed and wait back until the feed is in their bowl and I am moving onto the next before moving in to eat.

Are they afraid of me? No, they are not, they know where they stand and have respect for people.

One brood mare is not the nicest of mothers, she will never allow her foals to feed with her so, one time I had her eating n one corner and her colt foal eating in the other, either side of the door.
I wanted to top up the water manger and remove some droppings so, returned whilst they were eating. There was a chain across the doorway. As I walked to the door I saw that the colt looked at me, laid his ears back and continued to watch me whilst still eating.
I knew what he was going to do and, sure enough he turned to block the door with his body and when I continued to walk towards it he raised a leg to kick. Before he did more than lift that leg he got a hard poke in the flank with the handle of the fork. He raced to hide behind his other. I put the water in and picked up the poop and left the stable. He returned to eat his feed. I left them for a few minutes and went back to go into the stable, he immediately moved his body away from the door to give me room - still eating.
Lesson learned!
He was sold as a yearling and the girl that bought him can only rave about him and how well mannered he has always been.

Being tough on youngsters, providing it is fair, does them more of a favour than making excuses for them and their bad behaviour

 

[Maesfen]

Totally agree with FH49. You want their respect at all times not their love on their terms.

 

[PandorasJar]

I had one who turned arse on any person or horse. 8 years of it unchecked.
Three days of clapping the second she started to turn and she's not done it since. By the second day she'd catch herself before swinging.
Months on now and fine.
Very quick and easy solution for me!
I didn't want to use physical telling off as didn't want to put myself in danger, didn't want to scare of anything useful as was unhandled and didn't want to up the anti and have it upped back at me.

Used to have a horrible kicking donkey on the yard. Farrier was quicker than donkey and grabbed leg. Scared the hell out of it and thought twice after that.

In general agree with fh. Horses don't ask another not to kick, they tell them very bluntly it won't be tolerated. If it's fair and done at the right time (not half an hour later).

 

[Allie5]

I have two youngsters now 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. The older one I've had since his first birthday. He's generally a sweet natured soul but can be a bit possessive over his food. Normally I leave him in peace but I expect to be able to adjust rugs etc if I have to whilst he's eating. He tried once to kick me and he got such a smack across the backside he's never tried it again. I, as the human, am herd leader. It is NOT acceptable to kick your herd leader. We still love each other but he respects me as well as I make his boundries very clear and he is secure and confident in his place.