Filly a bit handy with her backend..?

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SweetieHorse

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I have a super 16 month old filly who is affectionate and good to handle, lead, tie up, brush (including back legs and tail) and also for the farrier. She is however very naughty about kicking. She double barelled me at 10 months shortly after arriving. I grumbled her and thought that would be the end of it. She then kicked the handyman but we put this down to him walking through the field with stock food (she is very possessive over food/buckets). She then kicked a friend's daughter unprovoked in the field and tonight she immediately squealed and swung her bum on me when I tapped her on the nose when she nipped me. While trying not to over-handle her I have spent time on ground work, teaching her to lead, back up,respect my space etc. I would really appreciate any further positive suggestions as so far the advice I have received ranges from beating her up to giving her lots of love to bond with her and obviously what I have tried so far isn't working!

(Have also posted in NL)
 
The kindest thing you can do for her is to remind her very sharply that kicking is not allowed before she hurts someone badly; you've been very lucky so far. If one of mine turned it's backend on me I would retaliate immediately and very sharply with whatever I had in my hand whether that be a bucket a headcollar of a broom, whatever along with an almighty growl and shout at them. My colt Sparks decided he wanted to be precious when he was eating his feed and I was skipping him out before bedtime; he backed up to me and bucked out at me, he meant it, I was gobsmacked as he's such a friendly lad so I shouted loudly at him and carried on; then he decided to lift a back leg and kick out at me so he had the back end of the shavings fork against his bum just the once, I am not having that. Since then he just looks and put his ears back but he never lifts a leg at me so I hope that's lesson learnt but if I had let it go he would have taken advantage and got worse and I've never had a foal (anything for that matter) that was a kicker before; I don't intend to allow him to call the shots, foal or not.
 
Often there's a split second warning that they're going to spin and kick or throw themselves around. A young filly I was asked to fix would kick, spin and double barrell or throw herself on the floor in a paddy. Part of it was trust issues, part was temper. Her split second warning was a bit of a foot shuffle. So you have to find a distraction technique. Mine ranged from a quick tap on her fetlock with my boot (not really hard, just enough to be noticed) or to make as much fuss and bother as possible. This was my favourite. Filly did the foot shuffle cue me leaping into the air wailing like a red indian sometimes with the arms going as well. The look on her face was priceless, all thoughts of tantrum or kicking were long gone.

This was all done in the field when I was teaching her to lead and I always wore a hat and gloves and lead her with a long rope for these little moments.

her trust issues were gradually solved by spending time in the stable giving her a good strong massage as she had been pussy footed around and it had made her bolshy and nervous. So I always made as much noise as possible, making all movements very bold and deliberate. Leading her out to the field beside another horse also helped as did group turnout. She was a really nice girl in the end.
 
We have a yearling filly who also has been a bit handy. We didn't want to be overly heavy handed with her as we thought it was partly due to being a bit worried about new things. Her main issue was kicking out at things she didn't recognise but also sometimes us
We tied different things to a strong schooling whip and put them close to her hind legs so that when she kicked she didn't hurt us and we could keep it there so she didn't get used to kicking something so it would go away. That did improve it quite a lot. She now picks her legs up but doesn't kick back, she gets told off for this and it is improving.
Good luck :-)
 
I'm with Maesfen, kick them back! Or theoretically with whatever you have handy. Far to dangerous to take a softly softly approach to, would they approach a dominant horse and kick it? They wouldn't dare.
 
When I first got Enya, she was a bit of a cow for kicking out. She only ever actually got me the once, but she would often turn her bum and boot out.

As horsimous said she always gave a warning which I soon picked up on. Her warning was clenching her bum, tight mouth and ears back. I always had a long rope when handling her, so when I saw the signs of her going to kick then I would give her firm but not to hard tap with the rope and again same as horsimous wave my arms around and shout like a mad woman.
 
My older doesn't like his back legs being brushed which goes back to him being a youngster. He can be very handy with back legs but only when being brushed. So I keep a schooling stick with me when brushing back legs and every time he threatened or kicked out he got a smack on the offending leg (a firm tap, not a whipping...just so we are clear). Now if he threatens I just get stick and show it to him and he behaves, occasionally he needs a reminding tap but it bodes well for a calmer situation as he respects it. Please note he's never been beaten or whipped but responds very well to this technique.

It needs to be nipped in the bud with a consistent approach so even if you can see why horse is reacting like that you can't excuse this reaction as its dangerous. It is obviously her instinctive response which will take time and consistency to change. Remember to praise her when she's good and doesn't do it to.
 
My 18 month old gelding is handy and has had a go at me and the filly he lives with. His efforts were rewarded with meeting the naughty stick - a piece of blue plastic pipe. He is food proud and will have a go when the hay is being put in the barn. Normally I use a pitchfork, but feared he would get onto the fork, so now I empty the hay out of a bag and carry the pipe.

Rightly or wrongly, if any of my horses lay their ears flat back, make the effort to turn and lash out at me they pay the price.

This young horse was very nervous but is now being a boyo when he is loose in the barn. I feared the smack he had would set me back but it didn't, he was sharp tonight but thought better of kicking out when shouted at. He is going to be a weighty 17h plus and one way or another his kicking has to be halted.
 
We have just been discussing this this morning! We always have a youngster of all ages, i.e. foal, yearling, two year old, etc. Our rising 3 year old was very grumpy and quick with her back end and had to be taught that a lunge whip can retaliate quite effectively. As a foal she was lovely but as a two year old, no. Our yearling is just starting to be grumpy as she approaches 2. There is no doubt that the terrible twos applies to horses as well as humans but, in both cases, be firm and they do grow out of it.
 
Clodagh said:
I'm with Maesfen, kick them back! Or theoretically with whatever you have handy. Far to dangerous to take a softly softly approach to, would they approach a dominant horse and kick it? They wouldn't dare.
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Exactly! At my yard, a 3 week old foal who kicks wears a rubber/plastic feed bowl HARD on her bum - or a bucket of water - whatever's handy! I quite like it when they try to kick at this age as it's the ONLY time they're not likely to cause damage!

I've just weaned 3 colts and one of them has gone a bit 'feral' - he's a bu**er to catch so we have to corner him and come up behind him. BUT - he doesn't try to kick!! He tried THAT nearly 6 months ago and he damn well learnt it wasn't worth trying again! (Good thing too - he's built like a brick outhouse with a hell of an active hind leg - I'd hate to collect a kick from him now!)

Set this filly up so she'll TRY to kick (preferably in a stable so she can't get away from the consequences!) Go 'armed' (rubber skips are good, as is half a bucket of water.) Give it to her full blast ands SCREAM abuse in the deepest, fiercest voice you can manage! You might have to do it a couple of times as she's learned she CAN get away with kicking.
 
As others have said this is one behaviour not to go softly softly with.
Black and White. Right and Wrong.
Mean it when you tell them NO!
 
My filly can do this too. She may only be 13h, but a kick is a kick! Her bum has met with several head collars, a feed bucket and a stick or two. She hasn't tried it for a while, but she will one day when she wants to get her own way!!

I don't feel guilty in the slightest.
 
Thanks everyone - I really appreciate the replies. It was a real shame that on two of the occasions she kicked people, I wasn't around to deal with her.I have been doing much of what has been suggested and to be fair she has improved (she is lovely except around feed and in the field), but it's great to have the re-assurance from everyone that being tough at this stage is absolutely right.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Exactly! At my yard, a 3 week old foal who kicks wears a rubber/plastic feed bowl HARD on her bum - or a bucket of water - whatever's handy! I quite like it when they try to kick at this age as it's the ONLY time they're not likely to cause damage!

I've just weaned 3 colts and one of them has gone a bit 'feral' - he's a bu**er to catch so we have to corner him and come up behind him. BUT - he doesn't try to kick!! He tried THAT nearly 6 months ago and he damn well learnt it wasn't worth trying again! (Good thing too - he's built like a brick outhouse with a hell of an active hind leg - I'd hate to collect a kick from him now!)

Set this filly up so she'll TRY to kick (preferably in a stable so she can't get away from the consequences!) Go 'armed' (rubber skips are good, as is half a bucket of water.) Give it to her full blast ands SCREAM abuse in the deepest, fiercest voice you can manage! You might have to do it a couple of times as she's learned she CAN get away with kicking.
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Thanks JG, I'll try this - really great practical advice as always.
 
I had this in summer with the 2 year old that was turned out with my yearling, he only tried twice, the first time I had nothing to hand so just yelled at him and waved my arms like a mad woman, the 2nd time I had a head-collar & a rubber trug and he got both of them with me screaming abuse at him, he has never tried again, all the time this was going on my yearling just looked on with a kind of astonished look on his face..............he's one of JG's so obviously is perfectly behaved.........
 
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