Finally a diagnosis hurra but any experiences re spavins please.

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BethH

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Bloomin horse!!! Months this has gone on for - Tentative diagnosis from xrays of PSD but not conclusive and enough doubt for vet to want to bone scan to be thorough and see if anything else going on - bone scan says suspensory not causing any problems and highlights hocks, xray of hocks the week before initially looked like they were in good condition no problems, hence vet indicating PSD which had me sobbing in my soup as similar symptoms but rather less easy to help!

So then he nerve blocked the hocks and neddy came sound in a milisecond!!! So Ultrasound of suspensory then done and confirms within normal limits, and the even greater news is that it is not PSD and that pelvis & sacroilliac look in good condition too - phew! Well done so far - I feel the need for a large wine to cover the shock of the diagnostics bill that my insurers is deciding about right now!

So my vet is going to inject steroids in to the joint hopefully next week once the anesthetic from the nerve blocks have worn off which I think is the best option at the moment, he says give it 3-6 months to see if it works if not 1 more go but no more than that, but he is very hopeful of good outcome, the idea being that we can get my horse working again and the joint will hopefully wear away the change and stabilize.

A friend has just mentioned cartrophen to me, when I read up it sounds brilliant - just wondered if it is for hocks & if it works? It says it helps prevent cartilege breaking down and helps slow progression of djd etc. I know the steroids cause a bit of degeneration which is the whole point but when I talk to my vet, it would be useful to know if cartrophen could help Ryan too or would it work against the steroid??? Thoughts & suggestions please, at this stage we are preferring to try this first rather than fusing etc etc
 
Mine had cartrophen injections and has also had stifle injected due to bone cyst, all seems to be working at the moment as swelling almost gone and has gone from 4 tenths lame on flexion to pretty much sound! I was told the thinking used to be that you shouldn't inject the joint more than a couple of times but more recently research has show you can inject frequently long term with no I'll affects! Good luck

Edited to say mine is also on synequin (joint supplement) loading dose works out v expensive but by time get to normal dose you don't get through as much, I am half way through insurance so synequin and all else covered at moment, not sure if I will be able to afford to carry on with synequin afterwards.
 
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If the vet is only prepared to give the steroid injections one shot, then ask him to combine hyaluronic acid (HA) with the steroids......this gave by far the best possible outcome for my horse and IMO if you're in for the jabs cost-wise you may as well go for the best possible combination. I kept an old hunter going and jumping well for a good couple of years on these.

Cartrophen would not, IMO again, give as good a result on the hocks as it isn't localised. However, once my 24 year old was retired we used this a couple of times in addition as by then he had arthritis in other parts of his body and it was a good 'catch-all'. I also fed Cortaflex HA liquid in the early stages and then switched to the stronger Cortavet HA.
 
Why are the joint injections only 1/2 shots? Plenty have them every 3 months or so, indeed my vet recently said that they find they rarely last more than 3 months ans sometimes less.
 
Thank you so much for all of your replies, this is why I have a few more questions for my vet and for you guys. Because of where in the hock it is and the fact it isn't a higher hind limb lameness, my vet thinks combining the HA is a lot more expensive for a very short term gain and feels that if the injections don't work after the second go then they aren't likely to work. I think he is hoping that the steroids will allow the joint to degenerate enough to stabilize it and have it resolve through work, he said that in his experience of all hind limb lamenesses, this is the one he'd rather have of any (not that you'd eant any)and he thinks there is a good chance of success, but as usual once googling you get too much info that makes you worry! I hoped the cartrophen might protect the rest of the area a bit. I think supplements have of late through scientific testing and reporting been deemed to be not particularly effective, he didn't seem that thrilled about fusing with ethanol or pumping anything else into him either, so as to the future who knows - not really quite sure how I feel about all of this but I have to give Ryan a chance, he had ks surgery as a baby so I have to find a way to keep him working comfortably so that I can get some muscle back on him and support the back, if that goes he future isn't very positive.....
 
ah I would agree if they don't work first/2nd time they won't work - different to repeating them if they do work. They didn't really work for my lad but definitely worth a try and you do tend to get diminishing returns with them as time goes on even if they do respond. I'm not a fan of supplements anyway, the science doesn't add up for me ;)
 
My dutch warmblood was diagnosed with hock spavin a year ago at just 7 years old. She was never lame but had an odd gait in walk and a reluctance to want to move forward in canter which is very unlike her. X rays showed nothing but bone scan showed uptake in the hocks so both hocks were medicated with Hyalurinic Acid and Cortacosteroids. I brought her back into work very slowly and she remains on a high strength joint supplement long term, Riaflex Complete HA, as well as linseed for omega 3.
She was going the best she has ever gone , jumping 1.10m tracks at home with ease and 1m out competing and then 2 weeks ago her symptoms suddenly returned. So 10 months after the initial injections she is going back in for more steroids and more HA.
I think for it to last 10 months is an extremely positive result. She has no shoes on to reduce long term concussion to her joints. IMO Hyaluronic Acid is well worth injection at the same time. It has been shown to improve effectiveness quite significantly.
keeping my fingers crossed that my girl responds well again.
Good luck.
 
Thank you this is all so useful. So my feeling is that I take vet advice and have the first injection of just steroids, if that doesn't work after 3-6 mths, then I will ask for a second injection with the HA as he has said he can do that but hasnt really seen long term improvements from it to be able to particularly recommend it. What worries me is that everyone is saying it only works for a few months whereas I got the impression it was a longer term fix....... What is the long term outlook for this, I know loads of people over the years whose horses have spavins without seeming to worry about it, but I can see my horse is fine in walk and actually gave me some ok trot today (seems better in warm weather) canter is a disaster - bunny hopping on the back end, how can this seemingly just turn up almost overnight.....?
 
BethH said:
Thank you this is all so useful. So my feeling is that I take vet advice and have the first injection of just steroids, if that doesn't work after 3-6 mths, then I will ask for a second injection with the HA as he has said he can do that but hasnt really seen long term improvements from it to be able to particularly recommend it. What worries me is that everyone is saying it only works for a few months whereas I got the impression it was a longer term fix....... What is the long term outlook for this, I know loads of people over the years whose horses have spavins without seeming to worry about it, but I can see my horse is fine in walk and actually gave me some ok trot today (seems better in warm weather) canter is a disaster - bunny hopping on the back end, how can this seemingly just turn up almost overnight.....?
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I haven't come across cartophen but in terms of treatment of hocks, I'd agree that I've heard vets sounding kind of ok about them. Not great obv., but seem to be very treatable and many respond well to steriods (although can need to be re-injected). If they work, I do think they can make a significant improvement although not necessarily overnight, can take a few weeks to really show up. According to my instructor, a lot of competitive horses have regular jabs for their hocks (presumably it shows on tests though).
 
Thanks Bernster, I just hope my horse is one of those that it works for, bute didn't have any impact and I tried a couple of supplements which didn't either so goodness knows what I do next if it doesn't help. He had a KS op as a baby and I have to keep him in correct work to keep his back strong - I don't know why, but I am slightly feeling the term "Rock and a hard place" seems to apply at the moment!

The worst thing from a selfish pint of view was that when he was at the vets last week I felt like a completely spare part, didn't know what to do with myself, he is such a huge part of our family, I dithered around killing time despite having loads of jobs to do!
 
it is difficult to comment without knowing WHICH levels of joint in the hock are involved.. If it is the 2 distal rows of bones only then I would definitely be going with C/S injections only to (hopefully) keep the horse pain free whilst allowing the degeneration to progress to the point there the 2 rows of bones fuse. The lower 2 joints are very minimal movement joints so fusion removes the pain but does not affect how the limb functions.
If the DJD involves the upper 2 rows of bones I would go with corticosteroids and HA, as you need to try and maintain normal motion in those joints.
 
Thanks Joe. I am a bit confused too, but I think it might well be the lower 2 causing the problem - I think what you are saying is the same as my vet and I do trust him, he is a very decent person and he knows how much I love the horse, so I think he is being pragmatic as he doesn't believe in throwing loads of things into the mix that may not work and will just up the bill. I think he genuinely believes this is the right thing to do, when I asked about some of the other treatments he said expensive with short term impact and also that some of these treatments had escaped the area being treated and were found elsewhere in the body which he wasn't comfortable with, therefore because it is hock and not higher up this would be his preferred choice of treatment.

My little horse has been such a rollercoaster to own over the last 10/11 years but he has the most fantastic personality, hence my wanting to do whatever I can to help but I don't want to put him through treatment that won't benefit him as he has had enough stress in his life poor boy. Thank you that has really clarified things for me - I hope the djd solves it quickly for me!!!
 
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