Find a horse for a 18stone + rider

[ycbm]

Interesting, these are quite high. About 9 stone 6 lbs for a 13 h pony, I would not think that many children weigh that much even dressed to ride. Does it maybe include the tack?

Adults ride ponies and either ride show ponies themselves or warm them up for children to show them.

 

[palo1]

I read the Kay Hastilow post and it just seems like simple common sense to me. I wonder why saddle fitters don't just routinely ask their clients 'How much do you currently weigh'? when doing a fitting. Perhaps it is not in the saddle fitting culture - particularly where saddle fitters feel anxious about being replaced by a fitter who won't ask personal questions I know it can be difficult to address BUT there are several ways that conversations can support riders - saddle fitters can suggest that current weight requires a different approach (limited riding) or they are able to clarify that in their view the rider's weight is not an issue re: saddle fitting and the horse's health. Having been larger and smaller as a rider myself I think it is horribly awkward if you are concerned about your weight and no-one says anything constructive! I tried to ask questions about my riding weight some years ago and those questions were brushed off in a rather embarrassed fashion. I have a different fitter now and I know that she would find a way to raise the conversation if I didn't. Now it is just part and parcel of the saddle check appointment. I find it useful personally in fact. It would be hugely helpful to have that clarity from an equestrian professional tbh. I guess though that if riders don't have an on-going relationship with their saddle fitter then that could be tricky; it's maybe not so easy to have that conversation with someone 'new' though it could be understood as a routine part of a fitting. I mean, having a horse is one thing for people to do, riding it is another and it just seems obvious to include the rider's weight in saddle fitting/horse health checks !

 

[ozpoz]

Not just saddle fitters. Vets and physios should broach the subject too when treating equines. My horse physio does as a matter of routine even with lightweight riders. It is a welfare issue, and we know that rider weight can have a significant impact on ridden horses.

 

[Birker2020]

I am really bearing my soul here so could do without any unkind comments please. This is me on my 17.1 WB. The first image was taken around Oct last year when I was 17.5 stone and the second photo was taken around 2014 when I used to compete reguarly. I deliberately try to get photos of me facing towards the camera as I don't like seeing the size of my legs when I am heavier.

I have started back at the gym swimming and will take up spin classes when the studio is back open again. I am also watching what I eat and have been having soups and salads for lunch and tea.

I'm up against it as two of my three prescription medications cause weight gain but I am on a list to see a spinal neuro surgeon for a back operation so hope to come off them. This is the year I am determined to make a difference to the rest of my life. I hold weight in my upper legs and tummy.

I would die for more confidence so I am hoping that if I lose weight this will come. I also worry that I think realistically this is probably the last year I will have my horse and when I have to find another I am dreading trying them out at my current weight. People can be very shallow and judgey and NEVER offer me a ride on their horses, they just look at me and I know....it makes me feel so sad. However, there is one lady on the yard that lets me ride her horse and she really is my hero, she can never understand just how much it means to me at the moment.

I used to compete regularly years ago and know that I am a balanced rider and I think this makes the difference. I'm just horrendously out of practice.
If riders are heavy then there is normally a problem, we don't just stuff ourselves day and night, there are reasons why we are like we are and some of us are desperate to lose the weight and not be judged by people.

 

[sportsmansB]

I understand that many people have horribly unfortunate reasons for being heavy (medications etc)
But horses shouldn't have to take that into account / put up with it as such
If people own a horse but are too heavy to ride, the horse most likely won't care that its not being ridden as long as it is well looked after, exercised in another way and all other needs met.
I would have much more time for a heavy person who was not riding, than one who was
There are lots of other sports that heavy people also can't be doing, I don't get the feeling of entitlement to ride.

I have a big boned 16.3hh ISH, and tbh I wouldn't put more than 14.5st on him.

 

[Michen]

I had a horrible shock going to the doctors the other day, I knew I’d put on weight but wasn’t expecting to be closer to 11 stone than 10. My 15hh connemaras weigh around 420kg and I am determined to get back nearer to the 10 (or under) for their benefit. And that’s still within the 20% guideline but I have a young horse and a horse with an injury, why would I want to make it harder for them.

A friend of mine was going to be riding one this weekend. I’m afraid when she told me her weight (I didn’t ask) and it was nearly 12 stone (like me we’ve both enjoyed too much cake over lockdown!) I had to say no. A really hard conversation to have but ultimately even for one ride I don’t want my horses working harder than they need to.

20% “rule” or not, it seems madness that we spend so much on saddle fitting, vet bills, physio etc without addressing the one thing that could probably make a significant difference to our horses.

So my next remit is not only to lose a little weight but also get fitter too.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

...

 

[smolmaus]

So again having read that article should men not be riding then? I wonder what Some of these well built riders weigh.

We seem to focus on us being overweight women and overweight being fat. Many people can be overweight and still perfectly fit and thin looking. Should we be losing muscle mass along with fat to make sure we are a perfect weight?

For my height I’m overweight at between 9 and 10st. However at 10st I’m a size 10/12. At 9.7st I’m a size 10. If you looked at me I’d look fine but I’m still looking at a BMi of over 25.

Also unless a saddle fitter is going to carry a set of scales with them and ask you to hop on then there is now way they can prove what someone weighs. Even if I was 10st if I was asked to hop on scales the person asking me would be told to beat it under no uncertain terms.

I get that people go in about the horse and the effect it has on them but it means that male riders will be watching their weights constantly and many will be too heavy by those standards to ride.

Indeed. Following post not directed at you btw, just following on I think.

I am not an expert by any means (but then again neither are most people) but the 20% rule seems to suffer from the same problems as BMI when we start using it as a RULE and not just a fairly arbitrary line in the sand because well, I suppose we need to draw a line somewhere?

BMI is not a measure of health, it is at it's most basic a ratio of height and weight. It suffers considerably when it comes to women and POC and at either end of the height spectrum. It takes no actual health-related measurements yet it is often used as a measure of health (BMI>25? DIET TIME ?) by people who don't know better. When you are looking at diverse, large populations it might be useful but on a personal level it really gives very limited information to the point of being completely useless.

The 20% rule is just weight vs weight, taking nothing about conformation, fitness or even general health into consideration (for both horses and riders). It gives extremely limited information on a personal level even though maybe, when you have a large enough sample size, it might be "correct". I personally have no problems with riding schools or individual owners setting hard weight limits on their horses using the 20% rule in principle ( I know some people do) but if you have access to more information, like horses fitness, conformation, workload etc and the rider's general fitness, musculature, balance, experience etc then the 20% rule or just weight vs weight should be doing very little work. You have enough information then to make a DETAILED assessment, not a ballpark one. 90% of people do this subconsciously I'm sure, they'll just call it "making an exception" to the rule rather than acknowledging the rule is too vague to be very useful a lot of the time anyway.

 

[ihatework]

Birker2020 it’s a really difficult and emotive subject. People all have different body shapes and metabolisms which mean there is a vast variation in what their natural correct weight should be. Add onto that the myriad of reasons that can then put someone into the obese + category (eg medications, menopause, psychological issues) then it’s an awful subject to have to admit to yourself or broach with someone else.

I can only speak for myself but over the last few years have put on a horrifying amount of weight. Although nowhere near your current weight. I’m a good rider, but it impacts your balance, your effectiveness and your confidence. I have pretty much stopped riding bar the occasional hack on big (17hh +), fit, sound horses because I don’t feel I can justify my weight on any horses back regularly. I have a 16hh 5yo I bred that I would love to have a sit on but am refraining until I’m 13st. Even then it will only be a sporadic hack.

You have to choose your own path on this, but it’s a brave thing to do to admit and change the course of things

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Indeed. Following post not directed at you btw, just following on I think.

I am not an expert by any means (but then again neither are most people) but the 20% ‘guideline’ seems to suffer from the same problems as BMI when we start using it as a RULE and not just a fairly arbitrary line in the sand because well, I suppose we need to draw a line somewhere?

BMI is not a measure of health, it is at it's most basic a ratio of height and weight. It suffers considerably when it comes to women and POC and at either end of the height spectrum. It takes no actual health-related measurements yet it is often used as a measure of health (BMI>25? DIET TIME ?) by people who don't know better. When you are looking at diverse, large populations it might be useful but on a personal level it really gives very limited information to the point of being completely useless.

The 20% rule is just weight vs weight, taking nothing about conformation, fitness or even general health into consideration (for both horses and riders). It gives extremely limited information on a personal level even though maybe, when you have a large enough sample size, it might be "correct". I personally have no problems with riding schools or individual owners setting hard weight limits on their horses using the 20% rule in principle ( I know some people do) but if you have access to more information, like horses fitness, conformation, workload etc and the rider's general fitness, musculature, balance, experience etc then the 20% rule or just weight vs weight should be doing very little work. You have enough information then to make a DETAILED assessment, not a ballpark one. 90% of people do this subconsciously I'm sure, they'll just call it "making an exception" to the rule rather than acknowledging the rule is too vague to be very useful a lot of the time anyway.

I get that you aren’t having a go. I typed that all up then just decided it wasn’t really worth the arguments it would cause.

My old 14.3hh Welsh d x went between 480-500kgs so by the 20% rule he could carry up to 96kgs. That’s 15st. My friends 16.2/3hh BWB is 610kgs so can carry up to 122kgs. That’s 19st. So it is very vague and age/type/fitness dependant.

 

[ihatework]

God I hate the 20% rule. It’s not even a rule based on any objective science as far as I can tell. I really think there are very few horses out there who can carry that regularly without causing them harm. Strong boned, short coupled, well muscled, fit, sound and with a perfectly fitting saddle and a good balanced rider maybe. But that rarely happens.

 

[ozpoz]

There is no 20% rule!!
15% is more realistic. And less is much better for the horse.

 

[Michen]

There is no 20% rule!!
15% is more realistic. And less is much better for the horse.

Yep, I wonder how many horses are actually carrying that. Very few I bet. Take a 420-430kg 15hh connie like mine (of which I see many a chunky rider on).. that would be 9 stone 9 pounds without tack.

That's actually pretty slim for someone who is say, 5"6/5 "7. At 9 stone I look overly thin.

Quite horrifying really.

 

[ester]

I suspect F did but he'd never been on any scales so it would be a guess from that POV.

 

[ycbm]

People can be very shallow and judgey and NEVER offer me a ride on their horses, they just look at me and I know...

They aren't being shallow, B, or judgey of you, they are being judgey about whether they are prepared to have their horse carry your weight. I have never owned a horse I would have been happy to invite to ride by someone who weighs over 18 stone with the saddle. I wouldn't be judging you about that, just my horse.
.

 

[ycbm]

There is no 20% rule!!
15% is more realistic. And less is much better for the horse.

I agree 15% is my top for any horse, less for the young, green, old, injured but recovered, and not very well put together.

I also use 1.5lbs per square inch of panel that sits on the horse as a top limit. I think that one at least has been scientifically proven.
.

 

[ester]

I was pushing 17st last summer (medication/mental health stuff mostly - I was still fit), I self imposed a riding ban (though didnt' have my own anyway) so that I didn't put anyone in the awkward position of saying no - and also though 1 or 2 of them might have said yes it didn't matter to me it did, I'd crossed the line I'd happily get on something.
It's been a slog, I've had to have quite a bit of help. I started riding again sub 14.5 st as a friend nearby had something suitable.

I did get asked by my PT why my aim was X by Y - I said well that's the usual RS limit and the weather will be getting better by then

 

[AandK]

If it makes me "shallow and judgy" to not want someone 17st plus riding my horse, then so be it. I'm more concerned about his welfare than what other people think about me...

ETA, the 20% rule would mean 17st would be okay on this horse, he is a 16hh ex flat racer... Nope!!

 

[Michen]

I agree 15% is my top for any horse, less for the young, green, old, injured but recovered, and not very well put together.

I also use 1.5lbs per square inch of panel that sits on the horse as a top limit. I think that one at least has been scientifically proven.
.

Hanging my head in shame as I'm at 16% without tack! Putting down the bagel...

 

[stormox]

The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?

 

[ycbm]

Hanging my head in shame as I'm at 16% without tack! Putting down the bagel...

You should take yourself in hand immediately and flagellate yourself with a hunting whip ? Ride naked, that would get you back in limits ? ?

 

[Annagain]

The issue with the 20% rule is that it doesn't take a horse's type into account and unless people have access to a weighbridge, they're guesstimating at best.

We had a weighbridge at our camp a while back and as a little fundraising thing afterwards I took side on confo type photos of 10 random horses and put them all together in a poster with a little bit of blurb with each horse's height, breed and age. People them paid £2 to guess the weight of the horses and there were prizes for the closest to the total weight. Although it wasn't meant to be, it turned out to be quite an interesting experiment. Generally people over estimated the weight of TB types and underestimated the weight of more cobby types. Many of the horses were around the 550kg mark but they ranged from a 14hh heavy cob to a very slight 16.2hh TB. I know which of those two I'd rather put 110kg on.

Even with my two oldies who are very similar types and weights, (obviously when they were both fit and sound, they're both currently carrying 0kg!) I'd be happier putting more weight on Archie than Monty. Archie's actually the lighter of the two at about 650kg fighting fit to Monty's 670kg but he's much shorter backed, wider shouldered, deeper girthed with nearly an extra inch of bone than Mont who is long backed (and necked) with a huge backside but puny legs. Having said that, there's no way I'd would have put 20 - 21 stone on either of them which is what the 20% rule suggests. I suspect Charlie's a similar weight but I wouldn't put anywhere near as much on him at the moment as he's still a bit gangly and needs to fill out. When he's done though, I think he could carry more than they did - not that he will.

 

[Michen]

You should take yourself in hand immediately and flagellate yourself with a hunting whip ?

I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though

 

[ihatework]

The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?

How frequently are state occasions and how often is your rider pootling?
Is you pootling horse as fit as the HC ones?
Is your pootling rider as balanced as the HC ones?

weird comparison

 

[AandK]

The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?

I'd hazard a guess that the Household Cavalry have horses and tack appropriate to the size and weight of their riders, as well as the horses and riders being fit to do the job. Your average overweight rider pootling around is not as likely to be on a fit, well conditioned horse if they are only pootling for half an hour or so.

 

[ycbm]

The Household Cavalry's full uniform weighs around 4 stone - add this to the weight of a tall man for the duration of a state occasion or a parade.....surely this should be considered a lot more wear and tear on the horse than an average large overweight rider pootling around for half an hour or so?

Two wrongs .....

Just because they can .....

Etc.

There's no getting away from it, is there, horses weren't designed to be sat on at all, never mind to carry 20%of their own bodyweight that way.

 

[ycbm]

I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though

View attachment 69921

Nobody would realise, you look great. I do think you can afford to take account of the fact that you also run your horses nicely lean. So there's at least 10kg spare that they aren't carrying of their own fat that other horses are.
.

 

[Annagain]

I'd hazard a guess that the Household Cavalry have horses and tack appropriate to the size and weight of their riders, as well as the horses and riders being fit to do the job. Your average overweight rider pootling around is not as likely to be on a fit, well conditioned horse if they are only pootling for half an hour or so.

I also imagine the HC has quite a strict weight limit and isn't afraid to monitor it. I know the police do and considering the size and type of horse they ride, it's a fair bit lower than most people would expect.

 

[Michen]

Nobody would realise, you look great. I do think you can afford to take account of the fact that you also run your horses nicely lean. So there at least 10kg spare that they aren't carrying on their own fat that other horses are.
.

Thanks, black clothing hides a multitude of sins...

True and they are kept very fit with lots of hacking and hills. So I'm not going to immediately stop riding them now I've discovered the weight. But this thread has really helped motivate me to do something about it.

And hopefully it will motivate others to get on the scales and do the same, we owe it to our horses to all be honest about ourselves.

 

[tallyho!]

Very interesting article I read a while ago which changed my mind from the absolute rule of 20%, to being between 20-15% taking into account the horses’ healthy fit weight, not the flabby fair-weather hobby horse weight.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/equusmagazine.com/.amp/horse-care/weight_carry_062608

https://horse-canada.com/magazine/rider-health/size-matters/

Really, the 20% should only be applied to a horse that is fit and at its optimum weight for its size.
So, Birker, I admire you for posting those photos of you and your fab horse... he looks fit and at an ideal weight for his size which could be 650-700kg and you are 17.5stone which is 111kg so puts you at around the 17% mark.