Find me a feed

SpottedCat said:
The trouble with things like readigrass/graze on is that the protein is much higher but the DE is about the same as fibre beet, so I don't really see how it will help with weight gain? In the most basic sense doesn't the principle that calories in need to increase in order to put on weight, so what will I gain by feeding it which I can't get by upping the amount of fibre beet? I know the fibre beet is fed wet, but I do weigh it dry, and she is getting 1kg a day of it.
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I don't know (told you I wasn't scientific about feeding :o) Grass makes horses fat when other things don't. I have no idea what is special about grass that makes it do that but I know, sure as sure, that once the grass starts to come in my horse will pick up. Even though the feed I am feeding her in a bucket is technically more dense in calories and even though I feed ad lib hay.

I wouldn't suggest swapping FB for graze on. More using the grass as a partial (higher calorie) replacement for hay. That's how I feed it. Bucket feed, trug of grass, pile of hay.

You must be pulling you hair out. At least mine will eat pretty much anything. Apart from MagOx annoyingly!
 
Thunderbrook is a new one on me - will also look them up, thanks!

I have no objection to trying readigrass etc, but I think the reason that proper grass puts weight on them is because when it is growing it is v high in sugars, especially the ex-dairy stuff we tend to keep horses on here. The sugars are water-soluble ones for the main part, found in the leaf not the stalk, so drying the grass and using stalk rather than mainly leaf = dried grass being less good than fresh in terms of weight gain. When the grass is growing they're eating mainly leaf.
 
Three things to try are.

Oats
Copra
Soya bean meal

They are all high in calories (DE 15 - 18) and the latter two are high oil so slow release.

Mine love Copra but then they love Linseed too so I would get hold of a sample first to try as it isn't cheap and it is distinctive. Not tried Soya bean meal myself but know people who have had good results.
Oats cheapest (£5 a bag for the own brand and my local supplier) and most horses seem to like them,

Just to add, my tb is looking a bit ribby at the moment where usually he's tends to be overweight. It's been a tough winter.
 
I feel your pain as my TB looks the worst he ever has coming through this winter. He's on a similar management routine to yours in regards to turnout and I know for a fact it's the lack of grass and that I can't feed in the field that is the culprit. He simply can't eat enough haylage over night to keep his weight and he's basically licking bare soil in his paddock :(.
I pray for grass! He's not fussy like yours though which helps but he's on full ration of comp feed and looks slightly better but still rubbish imo.
For your girl I wouldn't normally suggest this but at Hero's where we got my mums TB they fed D&H stud mix. The horses got 3/4 small feeds of it a day, 3-4 scoops. They also mixed some other stuff in it Carron oil and a bit of chaff and oats I think.. All their fussy TB's ate it and they maintained none of the horses got worked up on it.
Sounds like rocket fuel to me but tbf our hero's horse was very well and calm on it. Needs must and all that, you could always try her on something like that untill she puts weight on ?! Then can leave her a trug of FB over night with her as well?!
 
Would also say use grass nuts in additon to the fibre beet. You can add them to the fibre beet to just give her more fibre volume, but grass nuts are more conditioning than alfalfa, even if the theory says otherwise ;) madam will also refuse to eat anythig with added mint in, but she gobbles up speedibeet and alfalfa nuts v(she ddoesn't need more weight!) but I would swap this for Speedi beet and grass nuts if required for weight. Alternatively, I would have thought the releve and fibre beet together should provide enough if you can get enough down her to increase her weight. It may be worth tryog linseed lozenges instead of micronised linseed?
 
Linseed lozenges - had not thought of that, good one! Will try and get hold of some as I think the linseed did help a bit when she was eating it. It certainly made her really glossy!! I don't think I'd twigged linseed came in another form other than micronised. Of course if it is the taste it won't work...

I think it'll have to be releve to start with and then see how we go. It's forecast to rain this week, so if we get that and a bit of sun the grass should start growing I hope.
 
Just a thought but have you tried different varients of pure feeds? Mine wasn't keen on pure condition but will wolf down pure easy - not great for an underweight horse I know - hence the copra, but I did manage to sneak in half a scoop of pure condition cubes.
 
Have you tried Omega Rice? I know she's rejected EquiJewel, but despite their virtually identical ingredients they are massively different for Reg...
 
Yes, done all the variants of pure feeds including the conditioning pellets. Hmm, did not know that re the linseed lozenges.

Not tried omega rice because it is virtually identical to equijewel and it's the taste with equijewel. She likes the idea of it, but takes a mouthful then very carefully spits every last pellet out!
 
SpottedCat said:
Yes, done all the variants of pure feeds including the conditioning pellets. Hmm, did not know that re the linseed lozenges.

Not tried omega rice because it is virtually identical to equijewel and it's the taste with equijewel. She likes the idea of it, but takes a mouthful then very carefully spits every last pellet out!
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Also, have you tried soaking stuff in apple juice/ apple squash? With Lily, mum started liberally dosing stuff with apple squash which helped...
 
If she is eating 3% of her body weight in dry matter per day but not gaining weight then maybe metabolic issues are something to consider - does she have salt for example (caveat - mine took a while to get used to the taste so start small :)), not a salt lick but actual salt added to her food? Or could there be a mineral imbalance - perhaps it would be worth asking Sarah at Forageplus for suggestions. www.forageplus.com/
Is she on a decent balancer, I have heard good reports of 365 complete?
 
If you wanted to try barley rings I've got a sack at home that I was going to throw away (bought too many bags) you could have, then if she doesn't like you've not wasted any money.

Didn't hot up my mare at all through the winter, just added condition nicely :)
 
Apple juice doesn't help - was one of the first things I tried!

She's on a balancer, yes, and I'm feeding it at the rate for the weight she should be rather than the weight she is.

If she doesn't pick up when the grass grows then yes, I will start looking at metabolic issues/getting blood tests etc. But she has had a massive life change - she went from living in a field to coming into work, being in 24/7 because the fields were flooded, moving yards, wolf tooth out, working consistently etc. She hasn't lost weight since I got her, if anything she's put a bit on, but nothing like enough.
 
What sort of balancer is she on? Is it worth trying a more "comprehensive" one instead of a "leisure" one for example?
 
wench said:
What sort of balancer is she on? Is it worth trying a more "comprehensive" one instead of a "leisure" one for example?
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She's on one which is almost identical to topspec comprehensive - I don't think the balancer is the issue. I've only just found one she'll eat, so that stays!
 
Ok I will firstly admit I only read to page 6 so if someone has since written this I'm sorry!

I have fed boiled barley with success. Didn't think he'd touched it but he did!

Also (this is a bit hard to explain!) find out who her bestest bud(ies) are. If they will allow (and her) let them share feeds to see if you can intice (sorry if spelt wrong I have dyslexa) her to try their's, especially if they munch theirs down quickly. So if her bud is eating some cubes/mix will she try and steal some from their bowl. Try and do this as soon as she comes in from the field before tucking into her FB/hay/hayledge. All ours try and steal/share each others, you know the grass is always greener!

Also agree that as a 5 yo she may be growing/changing which you won't see (ours did this alot) but just seems to require energy!!!

My super fussy ponio won't touch alot of supplements but quite likes Feedmark ones, which could be worth a try (he can smell 1/4 of a scoop (25mL) of a general multivit from other companies and will immediatley turn his bowl upsidedown in disgust!!!

I also agree that good grass and sunshine will do her the world of good but like everyone else we are still waiting for this!!! Though if she will eat it feed her 3 big carrots per feed (will help IMO).

Good luck
 
Spotted Cat, I should also say that Fibrebeet wasn't very successful with mine and they did lose weight on it - mainly because the energy content is relatively low, no matter how much they ate. I swapped them onto Speedibeet at the time and that worked well. Would she eat Speedibeet instead? An equivalent volume would be higher in calories.
 
I used Topspec super conditioning flakes with great success when I first got Pidge as he was very underweight. 3 feeds a day to start with and then dropped off the flakes after 9 months. I still feed these over the winter as he can run a little light, if you want some to try let me know and I'll send you some over?
 
Contact John at Gravenhorse feeds http://www.gravenhorse.co.uk/Products.html and ask him for some free samples of their full fat soya flakes, acceler>8, bodybuilda & Lingold to see if she'll eat any of those. Or he may have some other suggestions, he's very helpful. You can tell him I sent you :)

I feed C the full fat soya flakes and he's not a big eater but will eat a few cups of those a day and they don't heat him up.
 
Sorry in advance as probably repeating something that's already been covered but I've just skim read.

Copra isn't like Equijewel/Omega rice; it's a coconut derivative. It's 15 Mj/KG and iirc around 10% oil. It can be fed dry, damp or as a mash. I know of one person who's TBs didn't like it but I've honestly never met anything that didn't love it. I'd get mugged if I had any still on my hands after making feeds. It smells lush to me and like I said it's always been wolfed down. In Oz it was fed to the working horses with plain Lucerne, they had red dust and sticks for grazing but were doing over 50kms a day working. They held condition easily and had plenty of (controllable) "oomph" for working.

Their other option is the Powerstance which is a fine white powder; more like a supplement than a feed in it's appearance and volume fed. I think the Mj/Kg was something like 27; although it's low in starch it was very high in protein and my boy came out in a rash. He'd been scoped and as he already had a "barefoot" high fibre diet the vet said that we should be feeding horses fats but that volume of oil required would be unpalatable. This coconut fat is the only saturated fat that's not animal based as far as I'm aware.

http://www.stanceequine.co.uk/horsefeedproducts.php?PowerStance-3#nutrient

Have you tried a digestive supplement like Yea-Sacc and/or Brewers Yeast?

Will she eat Speedibeet? It's slightly higher in calories than FB; I found that surprising as I always thought FB was the conditioning version until I looked into it properly when my boy dropped condition when I swapped him to it in an attempt to add condition. Lesson learnt to read labels and not assume!

One of my friends (Scarlett on here) has started feeding KeyFlow feeds. Although they appear higher in starch the cereals are processed differently making it easier for the horse to break down in the guts. Scarlett's horses are all barefoot TBs so their diets are carefully managed too. She has a fussy horse and he likes it although he did eat linseed/OR/releve/winergy iirc. Might be worth getting samples? http://keyflow.co/key-products/mark-todd-range/

Can you get hay analysed and/or buy hay with a higher calorie content?

Roll on spring...
 
I've spoken to both thunderbrook & gfw feeds who's products sound good for fussy poor doers & are coming to the top of my list to try. I'm reluctant to change my feed at the mo as mines eating & putting weight on but then we're lucky enough to have a decent amount of grass which I find is really the only way mine will maintain weight & even then he still needs some feed which he is then reluctant to eat as hes full of grass! I had a graven soya sample which went down ok, I managed to source soya at feed place up the road from me which I didn't even know was there & it's only £13 for 25kg! I did buy some BOSS last summer which he wolfed down but I decided would work out too expensive to carry on with. I want to buy another horse soon-ish & anything that is fussy & ridiculous with food will be rejected! After 15 years of this one I've had enough of faffing around!
 
If your horse will accept a powdered supplement, try Equine Answers 365 Complete supplement - fed at double-dose (2 x small plastic supplement scoops). I used to have my horse on a well-known balancer but then he started turning his nose up at it, so switched him onto 365 Complete (after hearing good reviews about it on this Forum) and he's doing so well on it and looks in great condition. I feed it alongside the feed merchant's own label 16-plus mix and chaff. Also, I found 365 Complete is much better value than the balancer I was buying. Equine Answers have a website and I'm sure if you contact them, they'll send you out a sample.
 
Complicated! I have had a quick read so apologies if this has already been mentioned. How about SS just grass [Dried Spring grass]? Or like others have mentioned grass nuts? Would she not tolerate something like lucie-nuts soaked as FB is speedi beet & alfalfa? The only other thing that I have seen which intruiged me was on this post ...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=602397

The AllTech LifeForce [not something I have used]
 
I'm currently trialling LifeForce but as I'm only on day five I can't say whether it is working or not yet.

Will happily update everyone in a month's time if they want me to though. I've heard good things so I'm cautiously optimistic :)
 
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