finding a dresassage stallion for a SJ mare line

[wernbach]

Help required!!! I have a 7 year old mare (maiden) who has been out hunting, done a little dressage up to novice level winning on most outings, but her main purpose is showjumping. She went out to spain last year jumping small tour. Bloodlines Sire/Acodetto (Holst) Dam Pabraxis (KWPN) Dam sire Hinault. She is quite a tall mare 16.3, Fab temp,very gentle and kind. Basic paces are good but nothing flashy. She is quite long and neck could have a little bit more to it. Hoofs def need improving.
I am an amateur rider and would like to carry on with dressage working my way up the ladder so rideability has to be top of the list, I also think a little more activity/power from behind wouldnt go amiss. I did look at the trakehner breed but they seem to be quite fine and I think she could do with a little more bone as she does look quite thoroughbredy (not sure if thats a word!!) Strong dressage bloodlines are a must! Any help greatly appreciated. I will do my best to get a picture on but not very good on the computer!!

 

[sarahhelen1977]

My boy is over 50% trakehner, and I certainly wouldn't describe him as fine, so don't discount them!
Without pics it is hard to make suggestions, but there are lots of lovely stallions in the UK showing great trainability
My boy - Adonnis (Gribaldi x Mondriaan x Palfrenier) might be worth a look.
I am an amateur rider and have trained and competed him myself. We have gained over 200 BD points and are about to go out at Medium level (he's waiting for me to be ready at the moment!) he has a natural ability to 'sit', and I plan to take him all the way through the levels - oh, and my farrier really likes his feet!!
His website is a bit out of date as my computer broke and so I lost the software I needed to change it, but he does have a facebook page! PM if you want any further details

 

[Murtle]

Help required!!! I have a 7 year old mare (maiden) who has been out hunting, done a little dressage up to novice level winning on most outings, but her main purpose is showjumping. She went out to spain last year jumping small tour. Bloodlines Sire/Acodetto (Holst) Dam Pabraxis (KWPN) Dam sire Hinault. She is quite a tall mare 16.3, Fab temp,very gentle and kind. Basic paces are good but nothing flashy. She is quite long and neck could have a little bit more to it. Hoofs def need improving.
I am an amateur rider and would like to carry on with dressage working my way up the ladder so rideability has to be top of the list, I also think a little more activity/power from behind wouldnt go amiss. I did look at the trakehner breed but they seem to be quite fine and I think she could do with a little more bone as she does look quite thoroughbredy (not sure if thats a word!!) Strong dressage bloodlines are a must! Any help greatly appreciated. I will do my best to get a picture on but not very good on the computer!!

Your list is almost identical to mine for my mare. I have decided on this stallion:

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_52821.html

and bonus, he is stood at Meadow Stud, I have used them before and got an excellent service, so I am happy.

 

[Lgd]

I have two by the KWPN stallion Mooiman out of my 7/8 TB mare (had 3 but lost one to colitis as a 7 week old foal).
Mum is quite old-fashioned NH TB bloodlines so not overly fine and really bred to event - she hated SJing despite being a very scopey mare - so switched to dressage. Competed to Inter I level and did all the GP stuff. I like short-coupled so looked for a stallion that was not overly long. Needed more suspension in the paces and wanted to improve the hind leg as mare is typical TB and a bit straight in the hind leg, although bends it well.

Mare is the bay in the album, chestnut is the first foal - she was reserve champion foal at her KWPN keuring.


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.35569552977.43359.673237977&type=1&l=d67711ecf8

This is the filly we lost

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150208094157978.333768.673237977&type=1&l=8c7639ac04

This is my then 2yo (now rising 3yo) at his Futurity. He is being a bit slow to mature (so was Mum and his big sister) and has bulked up considerably since these pics and has shot up in height over the winter. He is very laid back and easy-going despite being entire. He was away to be long-reined late autumn and the chap doing the work says he has never met a 2½ yo so sensible and trainable.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151087376537978.460986.673237977&type=1&l=d58f63e9ec

This is the only ridden pic I've got of the oldest, afraid it is a bit fuzzy and not her at her best as she was a bit tense (it was her first time ridden in an indoor arena).

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151149668487978.472283.673237977&type=1&l=a01074ba86

She is only 15.2hh having thrown back to her pony grandmother but has huge athletic paces and is really well-balanced and very uphill. I backed her as a 5yo because she was quite immature but despite that she is already solid Elementary, working all the medium level stuff and has started her half-steps.
I work full time so she does not get worked as much as I would like. Says a lot for her that after being stuck in for 4 weeks due to the weather I lunged her for 15 minutes and then just got on and rode. I did question my sanity as she rodeo'd round on the lunge, but she was a perfect lady - quite forward but easy to channel the energy into her work.

Mum is now retired from breeding but if I had the ££££ I would ET like a shot to get another sibling.

This is Daddy

http://www.holdenfolddressage.co.uk/mooiman.html

 

[amy_b]

I like Bubble Up, saw him at Hartpury and ontop of everything else looked very sweet.
Have you looked at Treliver Decanter? He might compliment your mare quite nicely.

 

[competitiondiva]

never seen bubble up, looks nice, but sandro hit, flemmingh AND Jazz very very good lines, but could be he throws hot blood, all of these are very 'professional rides' if i'm not mistaken? if he has competing/ridden stock out see what they are doing. I am an amateur rider and have a Jazz grandson, who is as much horse as I would want (don't get me wrong, he's bl***y amazing!! but not an 'easy' ride). And he is out of my very very laid back non hot blooded mare!!! So doesn't have the added sandro hit and flemmingh! Not saying to avoid because he does look very very nice, just bear in mind depending on what your mare is like in her own temperament. Otherwise I would suggest rubinstein lines like Rockstar, known for their rideability, and still with good presence and action.

 

[Oscar]

Olympic Relevant (Rubenstein) stands at Constancia stud, Devon.

Also Woodlander Supertramp looks stunning, but in not sure if he passes his ride ability on.

 

[wernbach]

Thank you all so much for your replies, I have looked at a few stallions, given the info on my mare what do you think of the following, Keystone Rhondeo, Amour g, millenium,san liberty. Quite a varied choice I know but just cant seem to pinpoint anything, looked at her hind leg conformation tonight and its quite straight! Her best pace is canter, Iam looking for a good walk and a expressionate and elastic trot! All help is very much apprecited

 

[Lgd]

Flemmingh lines are known for good temperament - often put onto the hotter blood lines like Jazz to improve rideability.

Have to say Moo improved the hind leg and trot with all of mine. Walk - harder to say as Mum has a good walk to start with, but both got 9 walks. (Stallion got 9.25 for his). Mum has a good canter but the little mare has a phenomenal one. My trainer is a list 1 judge and even she went WOW! the first time she saw her canter.

In terms of choice go and look at the stallions because what you see in pics/vids does not always ring your bell in the flesh and vice versa. Also try and see foals out of various mares so you get an idea of how he is stamping the offspring. I spent 18 months selecting a stallion for my mare. Lots of internet trawling to narrow down the selection and many miles and viewings. The only other one that floated my boat was Treliver Decanter but at the time he was young and I wanted a proven GP horse, plus he was a bit too tall for the mare.

 

[Bedlam]

I'm not sure why nobody has yet said this, but I think you'd be much better off financially to buy a dressage bred youngster than to try to breed one from a SJ mare.......?

 

[Fahrenheit]

Bubble Up is by Sandreo (Sandro Hit x Flemmingh), a stallion known for his good temperament and rideability, which he has certainly passed to Bubble, who is probably the most horizontal stallion I have met. Yes he is out of a Jazz motherline, Jazz offspring do have a reputation but you can't argue with the fact that Jazz is the number one producer of dressage horses in the world and I personally am finding Jazz is popular on the mother side Jazz offspring may not be for everyone but when looking at a future offspring of Bubble Up, the Sandro Hit and Jazz would be in the third generation and Flemmingh in the fourth, far enough back not to send people running for the hills I hope

http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1519846

Without seeing the mare in the flesh, Bubble does seem to tick your boxes, he is compact in the body, very good over the neck with good feet. He is extremely rideable, even after being yard bound for a couple of weeks with bad weather I can safely let a small amateur lady exercise him, in the school, on the roads or in open fields, he truely is a gentleman to ride and a doodle to train I maybe biased tho, I am his mum

 

[christine48]

If she was mine I'd go for an athletic, good moving jumping lines rather than mix dressage & jumping lines.

 

[wernbach]

I have no need for a show jumper, hence asking for advise on what would be a good mix in the blood to produce a dressage horse, as we all know sometimes the mix of SJ blood is very beneficial in creating a good dressage type. At the moment Keystone Rhondeo is looking like a big possibility, does anyone know how he stamps his foals?? Also considering Addonis (I have a soft spot for the trakehners!) has anyone seen him move, or perhaps know where I can find some footage. Thanks for your continued advice!

 

[competitiondiva]

Horse and country channel did some coverage on one of the stallion parade/demo things! (Mind gone blank!) I reneger seeing him on one of them, might be worth seeing if there still available to view on there. Also have a look at wolkenderry, a stallion which would be top of my own list of I were looking at breeding again.

 

[competitiondiva]

Adonis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6V5gJ49oA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdNtCGnvL6M&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Wolkenderry, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_S1wyh8AXk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[wernbach]

Thanks will have a look!!

 

[eventrider23]

SJ lines are always useful in dressage breeding as a decent jumping line will add impulsion and elasticity to some of the heavier lines especially. Not to mention there are pure jump breds who have been VERY successful at dressage such as the GP stallion Chequille Z, Millenium (SJ dam line) and others.

The SJ bred stallion Caretino Glory could be a useful one to look at as he would help your mare retain her jumping lines if you were to sell the foal someday whilst being able to move. CG's sire Cheenook as a GP dressage horse as well as jumper and CG himself could easily have turned his hoof to dressage instead of jumping. Up to today I saw one by him out of a TB mare who moves better than most pure dressage breds with the most phenomenal extensions.

If you like the Trakehner lines, a friend of mine has a super boy in the stallion Craig. He is eventing himself but comes from one of the strongest Trak lines and is the full brother to the Trak stallion Connery.

Are you coming to the SSGB stallion show next weekend? A lot of stallions will be there for you to have a look at including the really exciting young Woodlander stallion Supertramp.

 

[Oscar]

Sorry but Wolkenderry was very unhappy in his mouth or was ridden badly at the stallion show, he was very unsettled in the mouth -put me right off, he needs a more sympathetic rider.

 

[competitiondiva]

Who rode him, he's had a few different riders from what I know.

 

[sarahhelen1977]

You are more than welcome to see Adonnis move in the flesh - he is based in Herts

 

[burge]

Olympic Relevant (Rubenstein) stands at Constancia stud, Devon.

Also Woodlander Supertramp looks stunning, but in not sure if he passes his ride ability on.

Supertramps first babies will be on the floor this year so will be a bit before it is known about whether or not he passes this on. He does though have Rubinstein on his mother line if I remember rightly.

 

[wernbach]

I would love to go the SSGB this weekend but unfortunateley I am working
I will have a look at carentino Glory, could you let me know the details of your friend with the trakehner stallion pls, I will hopefully be travelling around sometime after 11 feb to view some of the stallions we have talked about on the forum, would like to come and have a look at Addonis in the flesh and possibly see him loose if that would be ok. It has been so difficult to find a something that has the power at the back and expression/elasticity as well! Like ive said im breeding for me and not to sell so I know im being extremely particular

 

[christine48]

I have no need for a show jumper, hence asking for advise on what would be a good mix in the blood to produce a dressage horse, as we all know sometimes the mix of SJ blood is very beneficial in creating a good dressage type. At the moment Keystone Rhondeo is looking like a big possibility, does anyone know how he stamps his foals?? Also considering Addonis (I have a soft spot for the trakehners!) has anyone seen him move, or perhaps know where I can find some footage. Thanks for your continued advice!

The trouble with mixing blood lines is, if it doesn't turn out to be what you want or doesn't have good enough paces for dressage it won't be as saleable. However if you use a jumping stallion with the trainability and athleticism, if it doesn't turn out as you expected it would be saleable as a SJ.
On the continent they usually stick to either dressage or SJ lines rather than mix. Interestingly the last one we bred by Karandasj out of an Atlantus jumping mare ( bred to SJ) is showing enormous talent as a dressage horse. Karandasj put such a good brain on her so you never know what you will end up with, that's why I love the breeding side.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Oscar]

And yet Sandro Hit is show jumping lines, yet he is now one of the most used stallions in dressage breeding!

A lot of top breeders say you need a good SJ every 5th generation to keep the canter.