Finding a talented youngster without spending £100k

Kahlua said:
Although I said I won’t rule out any bloodlines, because I honestly believe each horse brings its own merit despite its lineage, I do look for particular proven lines in terms of stallions that have consistently produced horses that make FEI (Don Schufro for example, I also quite like a Furstenball, Donnerhall etc).

Confirmation wise I like them leggy but more compact as I don’t quite have the energy to steer a 4yo titanic around an arena ? Built uphill and the neck coming directly out of the wither, a lot of horses have a “dip” out of the wither into the neck which can (note I say can, not can’t) make it difficult for them to make the poll the highest point. Not moving wide behind in the trot.

And then the really big thing, and probably the most important for me, but something I’m not seeing, is good movement but with natural rhythm. I watched a video where just slightly offside (I had to rewind the video to confirm because it was very quick), in order to get knees up around ears, there was clearly someone shaking a bottle with rocks in it off camera. I understand why this is being done, why people chase young horses with bags etc. but unless someone is going to be chasing me around a test with a bag than I want to see the horses natural, not manufactured ability. The rhythm is so important to me, because it’s not that hard to make a horse look quite flash by sending it around the arena a-million-miles-an-hour, but how does it look when you dial it down, is the hind leg still active, do the footfalls still track up, does the back look soft, is the tail swishing or swinging? I do look for the obvious good canter and walk, but if there is good jump in the canter and activity in the walk, with a hind leg that comes well under, and some adjustability (do they show a normal canter and a bigger canter for example) then it doesn’t need to have the biggest paces as some horses can find it hard to close as you get up the levels.

There are other things I look at too but this is already a very long list, and even when I read this back I didn’t quite realise how picky I am being ???
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I actually look for a lot of the same things. I have crossed over from Warmbloods to Iberians though.

Of course the horses natural ability is important, but when it comes to a gait such as the trot, so much can be brought out and improved on. That's one of the goals in dressage, in my opinion, to bring forth the best gaits possible. My horse can move around like a loaf but if I ride him properly to our best abilities, his movement goes from a 6 or 7 to a 9. There are certain qualities I also look for in the walk and canter especially. If the rhythm is there in the trot, I don't stress too much. If there's a good baseline, I know that I can generate more later on in training. So that "manufactured ability" is something that you may be able to tap into later when the horse has more strength and education, but I like to see the horse move naturally too.

One time in a dressage clinic I was stressing a wee bit about our canter quality (I was being super strict about our canter being on par and the horse really using his hindend correctly before I began the flying changes), and the clinician said, "His hind leg comes underneath your leg at the canter, I think you'll be fine!" and we've been fine :p but I do tend to look for a compact horse, I also prefer the same qualities in the neck attachment as you. So you're likely looking for the exact same type I am when I shop, so I guess I am picky too! When you have a good eye for watching sales vidoes, you can really see a lot.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I actually look for a lot of the same things. I have crossed over from Warmbloods to Iberians though.

Of course the horses natural ability is important, but when it comes to a gait such as the trot, so much can be brought out and improved on. That's one of the goals in dressage, in my opinion, to bring forth the best gaits possible. My horse can move around like a loaf but if I ride him properly to our best abilities, his movement goes from a 6 or 7 to a 9. There are certain qualities I also look for in the walk and canter especially. If the rhythm is there in the trot, I don't stress too much. If there's a good baseline, I know that I can generate more later on in training. So that "manufactured ability" is something that you may be able to tap into later when the horse has more strength and education, but I like to see the horse move naturally too.

One time in a dressage clinic I was stressing a wee bit about our canter quality (I was being super strict about our canter being on par and the horse really using his hindend correctly before I began the flying changes), and the clinician said, "His hind leg comes underneath your leg at the canter, I think you'll be fine!" and we've been fine :p but I do tend to look for a compact horse, I also prefer the same qualities in the neck attachment as you. So you're likely looking for the exact same type I am when I shop, so I guess I am picky too! When you have a good eye for watching sales vidoes, you can really see a lot.
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All of this exactly!! And I’m sure we’re not the only ones with these wants, which is why I was trying to work out how to get direct to the breeders, as I think a lot of them never even make it to a website advertisement before they get sold. I do have to get some confidence around buying at auction, I saw a lovely 3yo recently that is selling for €55,000 but 6 months ago unbroken sold at auction for €10,000!!
Edited to add: A video tells me a thousand stories! I tend to skip forward to the canter and I can usually tell in about 30secs if it’s what I’m after. Thank goodness people put videos on their adverts, otherwise I would have pestered 100s of people ?
 
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I think when you have one budget for one horse it’s hard because all your eggs are in one basket .
So you will need to invest a lot of time in finding the one .
Don't discount British bred young stock but it means lots of driving .
Buying unbroken is a bit of a gamble but that may be the best route to finding a correct young horse and started as you would like .
The example you give above is a good one get a three old start it well it shows talent there’s a profit to be made or capital held within the horse if you train it on .
But it’s gamble because you never know how it’s going to go that’s why they cost so much more started .
 
Goldenstar said:
I think when you have one budget for one horse it’s hard because all your eggs are in one basket .
So you will need to invest a lot of time in finding the one .
Don't discount British bred young stock but it means lots of driving .
Buying unbroken is a bit of a gamble but that may be the best route to finding a correct young horse and started as you would like .
The example you give above is a good one get a three old start it well it shows talent there’s a profit to be made or capital held within the horse if you train it on .
But it’s gamble because you never know how it’s going to go that’s why they cost so much more started .
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Absolutely, and it is the old adage of only ever spend what you can afford to lose. I have normally ridden horses for clients, so they are what they are and you just try to get the horse to it’s best, where it’s happy, so this is the first time in about 10 years I have actually bought my own horse. At this point I’m not willing to part with my money on something unbroken, I do like to see them under saddle, even if it’s only the 4th ride, but it’s definitely something I’m going to explore down the track. I will probably buy another in 6 months or so after the first purchase. So just trying to get this one under the belt first. I would definitely be happy to look at British bred, I think there are some fantastic lines here. Sadly anyone I’ve enquired to doesn’t have what I’m after at the moment, but there was some that were coming back in to work over summer after their baby break, so you never know what crops up! Emotionally I’m in a rush because I’m desperate to be back on a horse, but also luckily being so picky I know I am going to have to take my time and be patient ?
 
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ihatework said:
I’d buy a 3yo unbroken and then save some of the budget for production the way you want it done.
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I think that’s a great idea, it’s what I will do if I end up with a 4yo as I have a training budget as well. Personally I like to see them under saddle as in my experience the way a horse goes can be completely different, and also it’s a lllooooonnngggg way to FEI from a 3yo ? but I do think there are merits for doing it absolutely!!
 
Kahlua said:
I think that’s a great idea, it’s what I will do if I end up with a 4yo as I have a training budget as well. Personally I like to see them under saddle as in my experience the way a horse goes can be completely different, and also it’s a lllooooonnngggg way to FEI from a 3yo ? but I do think there are merits for doing it absolutely!!
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Agree, but I think what you are probably seeing is the good ones done right either aren’t for sale or are mega mega bucks. The ones you are seeing in your budget are done quickly with corners cut. I’m not massively into dressage but exactly the same pattern can be seen in the eventers.

Interesting you have Furstenball on your list, I spent some time at the auction in Germany and he definitely throws a lovely model. Always caught my eye. But behind the scene someone very experienced was of the opinion they were auction horses not future GP horses
 
ihatework said:
Agree, but I think what you are probably seeing is the good ones done right either aren’t for sale or are mega mega bucks. The ones you are seeing in your budget are done quickly with corners cut. I’m not massively into dressage but exactly the same pattern can be seen in the eventers.

Interesting you have Furstenball on your list, I spent some time at the auction in Germany and he definitely throws a lovely model. Always caught my eye. But behind the scene someone very experienced was of the opinion they were auction horses not future GP horses
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You are spot on, which is why I haven’t seen anything yet that really tickles my pickle, and also why I’m trying to get behind the scenes, as I do believe these horses are there, but not publicly available.
Ahh isn’t it funny! My connection who has ridden in the Olympics, World Cups and trained many many horses to GP loves a Fuzzy Ball!! Edited to add: they are also looking for me, but cut a lot. Also as I’m not confident to buy sight unseen, the old ‘rona did obviously slow things down for me.
 
Kahlua said:
You are spot on, which is why I haven’t seen anything yet that really tickles my pickle, and also why I’m trying to get behind the scenes, as I do believe these horses are there, but not publicly available.
Ahh isn’t it funny! My connection who has ridden in the Olympics, World Cups and trained many many horses to GP loves a Fuzzy Ball!!
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Fuzzy Ball ?
Time will tell on them I suppose, relatively young sire. He definitely stamps them.
 
ihatework said:
Fuzzy Ball ?
Time will tell on them I suppose, relatively young sire. He definitely stamps them.
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The ones I know of and have looked at have been crossed with proven sires so that’s probably more what I like is the cross rather than a straight up reliance on FB to be honest! I do think he can throw something quite elegant, so if I can cross that with something trainable, and in my budget then I’m on to a winner. Can anyone say needle in a haystack ?
 
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