findus!

[patchwork puzzle]

People who are even slightly concerned about eating meat from poor welfare standards should look up the Earthlings video, an award winning film about the treatment of animals

Oh dear god, I have just watched a minute maybe two of the trailer and I feel sick, horrific is not the word.
If everyone was a veggie, it would just cause other issues, there will always be welfare issues as there will always be hideous evil people, but that short part of the trailer has affected me hugely, I certainly couldnt watch the film, for me it is enough to make me a veggie again, I actually feel so sick at some of those scenes and I think the only reason I am not crying is because I feel in shock, I am shaking!

Just a note- a chose to watch it, the warning about it is on the post that mentioned it and I am in no way implying that I wasnt expecting to see what was on there, but it is so graphic and there were a couple of scenes which I did not understand what I was seeing or why, just that it was horrific!

 

[Wagtail]

Whilst I understand other people's views on eating horse meat, and the benefits that can come from it. I personally couldn't eat it, I've spent so much time around horses and I know how intelligent (most of the time ) they are which would make eating them hard. I mean they form bonds with each other and humans, I'd find it hard to look at Sandy everyday knowing that I'm eating his species and other horses like him, who are equally as capable of intelligence and love as he is.
I personally couldn't do it, then again Sandy is more of a pet to me and as oppose to something which is there to serve a purpose or as livestock.

Still, I'm not opposed to others eating it and I understand the potential benefits if it were introduced

Cattle are equally as intelligent, loving, and form close bonds too. Pigs are even more intelligent than horses and even dogs.

 

[tallyho!]

See I wouldn't mind eating horse. What I dont like is the concealment!!!!

The horrible barbaric way they are transported and killed. Chickens get better treatment treatment these days.

Stop hiding it, stop hiding what's in our food. If horse is a viable meat source, then farm it, properly with proper care and considered welfare.

There is clearly an oversupply of horses for playing with so why shouldn't excess be used for meat, managed AS MEAT and not buted or drugged. It makes perfect sense.

Half the planet starves to death, the other half chuck food in the bin to rot in plastic bags on the outskirts of Swindon (just an example).

Humanity is ILL right now. This is just another symptom of how ILL we all are.

 

[PandorasJar]

PM. Id like to think mostly harmless blood and water.
Either way it's not cost effective buying cheap meat!

Always nice to be eating the same amount of meat as you put in the oven

 

[PandorasJar]

Agree wagtail.

Pigs are the most intelligent animal I've worked with. Goats while I'm not chasing them away from whatever they're destroying (because tent is edible but most greens are certainly not unless hand fed and things like purple sprouting broccoli) I'd also say we're smarter than lots of animals. I have one who when has had enough will cough and collapse to the ground. She worked this out when something got caught in her throat and people moved away. She also lies down in protest when she doesn't want to move

 

[Polos Mum]

Pigs are even more intelligent than horses and even dogs.

Based on how long our pigs take to get food out of the treat ball (designed for horses) compared to the horses I'd definitely agree to that.

Pigs are lovely clever, sensitive animals but carefully handled at the end I believe there is no stress to mine from being breed for meat.
Just as horses handelled in the correct way could be usefully used in the food chain rather than left to rot uncared for on verges and waste land

 

[PandorasJar]

Based on how long our pigs take to get food out of the treat ball (designed for horses) compared to the horses I'd definitely agree to that.

Pigs are lovely clever, sensitive animals but carefully handled at the end I believe there is no stress to mine from being breed for meat.
Just as horses handelled in the correct way could be usefully used in the food chain rather than left to rot uncared for on verges and waste land

If you don't mind treating them like a pet and can take half an hour out sometime.. try training them.

I trained a pig (all know heel already) to sit, wait (with a treat against his snout), lie down and "rear" which I taught against a hurdle first and then on ground in the space of about 30mins. It really is quite incredible how quick they are to learn and how gentle they are doing it - far smarter than any dog I've known! Most of the rewarding was done with a belly scratch too.

Absolutely agree with your last point too. Ours are all walked through and show no sign of stress and is a very quick process. They have had a good life first too. Not left in a field in poor condition slowly dying.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I eat veggie on flights as well, not for welfare or halal reasons, just because the meat meals are bogging.

Ah well, 'they' have been legally killing us for years with cigarettes, alcohol, salt and sugar, they might as well chuck Bute into the mix as well.

 

[joeanne]

See I wouldn't mind eating horse. What I dont like is the concealment!!!!

The horrible barbaric way they are transported and killed. Chickens get better treatment treatment these days.

Stop hiding it, stop hiding what's in our food. If horse is a viable meat source, then farm it, properly with proper care and considered welfare.

There is clearly an oversupply of horses for playing with so why shouldn't excess be used for meat, managed AS MEAT and not buted or drugged. It makes perfect sense.

Half the planet starves to death, the other half chuck food in the bin to rot in plastic bags on the outskirts of Swindon (just an example).

Humanity is ILL right now. This is just another symptom of how ILL we all are.

Totally agree Tallyho
And I think the reason this has happened is because we have become a nation of lazy individuals who would rather pay 99p for a prepacked bit of rubbish, because its convienient, than buy the raw ingredients and cook it yourself!
Perhaps the way forward if you are dead set against eating horsemeat (although its no different to eating a cow!) is to buy from a local butcher who has a traceable source.
Cheap meat is (as we are not discovering to our cost) cheap for a reason.

 

[jinglejoys]

Goats collapse to the ground because they can loose consiousness when a certain nerve in their neck is pressed usually by something pulling on the collor the wrong way

 

[lazybee]

I used to be a veggie when I was a child, and have to say that would be beyond appalling if that came to light!

Veggie burgers probably contain Uniquorn

 

[maree t]

I dont think it is as much laziness that makes people but this stuff but lack of knowledge. Hugh (river cottage) did a comparison with people that usually lived on junk and showed them how to cook it and how to make it actually cost less.

But watch out vegetarians my brother said one of the major supermarkets are withdrawing veggie burgers, it was discovered that they contain uniquorn !!

 

[PolarSkye]

Or eaten the food on a flight...... or in a school canteen.......

And even those of us who don't buy burgers or ready meals, how do we know that the mince we are buying (even if from the butcher) is what we think it is? How many people buy a joint of beef and mince it themselves? Even then, would they know if they were sold a similar looking cut of horse meat instead? I suspect that unless you are a butcher you would be unlikely to know. The only way to really know is to buy a carcass and butcher it yourself or witness someone butchering it.....

Or been to an event, horsey or otherwise, and had a burger from the van? Oh the irony!

We were talking about this at the yard this morning . . . odds are that some of us have eaten horse meat without knowing it . . . as you say, unless you only buy local meat from a reputable butcher and mince/cook it yourself and NEVER eat out, how do you know?

Personally, I wouldn't knowingly eat horse meat . . . BUT I have a much bigger problem with Halal meat being served to Muslim prisoners . . . that's not personal choice, that's a religious belief.

The passport system as it currently operates is a joke. The silhouette in my horse's passport doesn't match him and it's never been updated with owners, etc., but because it's been signed (by me - not his previous owners) to say "not for human consumption) and the microchip matches it's apparently fine. What a flipping farce.

We DO need tighter regulations and more traceability. There are bigger issues here than unwittingly eating a horse . . . there are welfare/transport issues, not to mention the potentially harmfull drugs entering the food chain. If we legalize horse meat for human consumption will it make things better?

P

 

[Rollin]

Well, do any of us know what's actually in our food? Even standing in the butcher's, do you know which animal that piece of meat is from? Unless you raise it yourself, cook it yourself, none of us really know. The very thought of what goes into sausages makes me come over all faint.

All my butchers in France have a post in the shop saying where the beef comes from and what breed it is. I never buy supermarket beef.

I only buy veal from two butchers, so I know it is not crate reared and sausages from our village charcuterie - who is a specialist pork butcher.

I don't find it more expensive to buy from a butcher - there are only two of us to feed so I can buy very small quantities and the meat is not wasted.

 

[Wagtail]

I wonder how many microchips people have eaten...

It is a serious issue because beef farmers are probably being priced out of the market by peddlers of horsemeat, and traces of bute have been found in the findus lasagne.

 

[spottybotty]

Tell you what, its gonna be a great thing for the horse, now someone might realize what a farce the passport system is and how lapse it is...

My gut feeling is that there will be more of a hoohaa about Bute getting into the food chain than the welfare of the horse. The current passport system in the Uk was set up to prevent drugs entering the food chain because as a nation we did not want to see the banning of Bute as directed by the EU.

 

[Beausmate]

Anyone remember the film Soylent Green?

Where nobody realised they were eating .... people!

I wonder if it's been tested for human DNA

Just thinking about this. Apparently they think there might be some criminal (value meat products? Criminal in many ways!) involvement. Mmm, criminals + nefarious dealings = dodgy meat? Maybe concrete blocks and building sites are getting harder to come by for disposing of certain 'items'?

 

[spottybotty]

I wonder how many microchips people have eaten...

It is a serious issue because beef farmers are probably being priced out of the market by peddlers of horsemeat, and traces of bute have been found in the findus lasagne.

Its an absolute mockery! There are such stringent welfare and tracebility rules in the UK, why the hell are we not buying BRITISH beef etc to put in these products, oh thats it to keep costs down and profits up for the supermarkets.

 

[Wagtail]

My gut feeling is that there will be more of a hoohaa about Bute getting into the food chain than the welfare of the horse. The current passport system in the Uk was set up to prevent drugs entering the food chain because as a nation we did not want to see the banning of Bute as directed by the EU.

My fear is that they will have to ban it. That is an awful thing for horse welfare, but I can't see them doing anything else due to the expense of policing the system.

 

[PandorasJar]

Trust me after having owned her for about 5 years I have watched her trying several different ways to clear people off. She coughs a couple of times and when no-one moves she goes down. Soon as all are clear she hops up and toddles off. There is no loss of consciousness, she is very much awake and places herself down.
She also has a multitude of tricks for when leading. She mixes between planting, walking sideways and when that doesn't work will lie down and stick legs in the air. She'll walk beside me without showing a hint of this though. It's is purely taking the mick out of people.

 

[PandorasJar]

^ jj she has never done this while being led either. She does it in the middle of a field when the kids are crowding her.

 

[tallyho!]

I love goats!!! My granny had a few. They really are very intelligent. In malaysia, you can keep and slaughter your own food. *Everyone knows where their food comes from, the kids probably played with their food while it was still alive. There is nothing wrong with that.

Goat curry is my absolute favourite meal.

*things are going very western over there now and they have tescos so who knows what's in a malay burger!!!!

 

[Rollin]

My gut feeling is that there will be more of a hoohaa about Bute getting into the food chain than the welfare of the horse. The current passport system in the Uk was set up to prevent drugs entering the food chain because as a nation we did not want to see the banning of Bute as directed by the EU.

I am curious about this supposed EU ban. BUTE is available in France although vets are reluctant to prescribe it!! I can obtain it from my local chemist without a vet prescription provided I buy 100 sachets. A friend buys Danilon from the UK on a blank signed scrip from a French vet.

 

[Orchardbeck]

I'm glad to see some sensible suggestions like people stopping buying processed rubbish and buying from local butchers instead - turning veggie is not going to sort this situation out. There are some wonderful beef breeders in the UK who invest their all in to providing the best welfare standards, feeding, accommodation , bloodlines for beef cattle, along with preparing them for sale to reputable butchers who ensure they are slaughtered humanely.

This situation should encourage people to choose who they buy from wisely, rather than pick microwave rubbish off the supermarket shelves. It will be a real shame if the beef industry is made to suffer as a result of these criminals. We all know that the French eat horse meat and breed for this purpose, not sure about the Polish, but what is possible is that the poor equine beasts that have been used here were not bred for this end, otherwise it wouldn't be as cheap, with the added danger of them receiving medication at some stage.

 

[Spring Feather]

Anyone remember the film Soylent Green?

I always think of that movie when I see things like this Unfortunately, and probably not in my lifetime, but it wouldn't surprise me at all that this may happen at some point in the future.

 

[Passtheshampoo]

If horse meat was eaten as a regular thing in this country, then the regulation of horses going into the food chain would be as stringent as any other livestock. This would actually mean there was some point to the ruddy passport system. If you keep animals which are normally used for meat, they must have tags, you must have a holding number and you must register their presence with the LA. If the same applied to horses, then the over breeding etc would stop.

And you have to list every medicine an animal has during it's stay with you. We keep horses (for pleasure) pigs and sheep for meat.

 

[YorksG]

And you have to list every medicine an animal has during it's stay with you. We keep horses (for pleasure) pigs and sheep for meat.

We keep sheep for pleasure and the wool, doesn't stop me having to follow the rules. I see no problem with keeping a record of medication my horse has had. If horse meat was eaten more in this country (knowingly) then some of the 'waste' from the 'industry' would have a better end, with a much shorter journey IMO

 

[jinglejoys]

PandorasJar I reckon you've got a fainting goat (bred with a brain disorder so they faint when under stress and the wolves take them rather than the sheep) I actually saw some for sale in the UK this year but not sure whether it was a phishing advert.Can't see the point of them myself

 

[1stclassalan]

None of this is a surprise to me, I expect it's been going on for years and it doesn't take much to see the reason why.

Just look at the type of person that's involved in horsetrading for meat - shady, low life's one and all - the likes of Spindle's Farm and he only got caught because he went a bit doolally and mistreated his animals - if he fed and watered them as he has done for years - no one would be the wiser. That man - his family and several others of his ilk have been buying and selling literally thousands of horses and ponies a year - yet at his trial, it was said what happened to them was largely a mystery.

On top of that, if anyone cast doubts on processed food, my old mate use to say - if you don't want any nasty surprises never buy a piece of meat that you can't recognise whether it mooed, bleated or oinked e.g. from a proper butchers and cook it yourself - sauages, he reckoned contained nothing but earhole, eyeholes and ar**holes.

 

[Passtheshampoo]

None of this is a surprise to me, I expect it's been going on for years and it doesn't take much to see the reason why.

Just look at the type of person that's involved in horsetrading for meat - shady, low life's one and all - the likes of Spindle's Farm and he only got caught because he went a bit doolally and mistreated his animals - if he fed and watered them as he has done for years - no one would be the wiser. That man - his family and several others of his ilk have been buying and selling literally thousands of horses and ponies a year - yet at his trial, it was said what happened to them was largely a mystery.

On top of that, if anyone cast doubts on processed food, my old mate use to say - if you don't want any nasty surprises never buy a piece of meat that you can't recognise whether it mooed, bleated or oinked e.g. from a proper butchers and cook it yourself - sauages, he reckoned contained nothing but earhole, eyeholes and ar**holes.

With regards to sausages, if you buy from a reputable traceable source (ours are free range traditional breeds and we are a very ssmall scale producer) you will only find belly, shoulder and ends of joints in our sausages. There again we are more about animal welfare than making a fast buck!!