first-aid cover at shows- is this too much to pay?

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Lolo

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yesterday we went to forest edge arena to compete in the indoor eventer trial.
the cost per class was £10 PLUS £3 per competitor for first aid cover. I asked who was covering the first-aid as there was no sign of a para-medic car and was told that the owners have their first-aid at work certificate which covers them to provide the first-aid cover

as there were in excess of 100 competitors there, this fee increased their takings by £300- which is fine if this is then being paid out to qualified medical people, but i was quite grumpy about lining other peoples pockets when not really getting the level of cover being paid for....

BTW this £3 is also charged for dressage comps.....

what do others think- or am i just being grumpy????
 
Bit of a cheek if they aren't paying for professionals. Like you I don't mind paying if you know you are getting proper cover, but just someone with a first aid certificate (which they have to have anyway) is taking the mick.
 
I don't mind paying £3 when there is a visible paramedic, but I would be upset to pay it for someone who has only done the basic course and doesn't have all the right equipment
 
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Bit of a cheek if they aren't paying for professionals. Like you I don't mind paying if you know you are getting proper cover, but just someone with a first aid certificate (which they have to have anyway) is taking the mick.

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^^^ What she said!
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I'd ring the BSJA and make sure they know because it doesn't seem right to me...
 
By law the centre must have someone with a first aid certificate. If the charge was to supply St Johns first aid cover then I think everyone would pay.But to be asked to pay for something which they have to have anyway is wrong.Put the class cost up by a pound or two but don't try to charge for first aid cover you don't have .I think I might wont to sue them if I was injured and they had not supplied the cover paid for.
There was this problem with The Royal Leisure Centre in Sussex 7 or 8 years ago and trading standards got involved
 
But they would've paid to take their First Aid at Work courses which is not cheap. A lot of shows will charge £3 per competitor, and put it as First Aid and Arena Fees. It's to cover the arena party and first aid fees.

At BSJA shows you have to have a visible qualified first aider, at ringside. Most of the time, the £3 per competitor does not cover how much the first aider costs.
 
I think it sounds alot if there was no visable St John or red cross present, they normally cost upwards of £400 per day so £3 per competitior would be reasonable, if they only had someone with their first aid ceertificate this seems alot to me.
 
It would be interesting to know what first aid kit they actually have. Having completed a course is one thing, having the correct equipment to hand is something else.

When I've been at these shows when the organisor is the 'medic', when anything happens it takes ages for them to come as they're always off doing something else.

They probably see it as some easy income but if something happens & the correct treatment isn't given or the right equipment is not to hand when it clearly should be they could be sued for a fortune. It is a dangerous & foolhardy money saving venture in my view.
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Under bsja rules now if you charge first aid cover then there has to be a person visible and purely just doing first aid. You can no longer have your secretary, cafe lady, collecting ring steward, etc as your first aider.
This year I have witnessed two quite serious accidents: The first was actually at our own show with our own jockey on a young horse in the arena who jumped the fence and put his head up and knocked out the jockey! She was unconscious before she hit the floor. At our shows we charge £4 per day per rider but have full paramedic cover with state trained paramedic who are now working privately in their own business (horsey background too which helps). They carry gas and air and can provide on site ambulance with full kit carried.
The second accident happened this Sunday at a local show to my son who fell off in the collecting ring. The first aid cover was £3 per rider but the first aider/paramedic did not have any gas and air and very quickly called an ambulance. Both the first aider/paramedic and the organiser of the show were on scene throughout.

I have no problem paying these amount for proper qualified care because when you do have a problem it's these people that make all the difference.
But agree, I do begrudge paying this amount for purely a first aider, which I am myself, because I would not have felt qualified enough to deal with either of the above situations.

Cookie for those who got this far!
 
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By law the centre must have someone with a first aid certificate. If the charge was to supply St Johns first aid cover then I think everyone would pay.But to be asked to pay for something which they have to have anyway is wrong.Put the class cost up by a pound or two but don't try to charge for first aid cover you don't have .I think I might wont to sue them if I was injured and they had not supplied the cover paid for.
There was this problem with The Royal Leisure Centre in Sussex 7 or 8 years ago and trading standards got involved

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Not strictly true, down to local authority interpretation, and I would expect FE to be a small enough business not to require first aid at work trained first aiders.

We charge whe nwe have St John and do not charge when our (first aid at work) trained staff provide cover
 
Ive paid £6 for First aid at a BSJA show recently, for a medic in a car. I dont think £3 cover is steep as dependant on entries, you may not cover the medics cost.
QR sorry but what is the moot point about £3 FA at a dressage comp..er, a fall is a fall, likewise accidents could happen in a lorry park?
 
Likewise I think it's tosh to be expected to pay anything for a First Aider with as much experience as a Girl Guide: recovery position, check airways and call an Ambulance.

I paid £3 per class for Medical Cover and 'Arena Party' at a showing show last year. There WAS no arena party. In an indoor school and we were doing in-hand showing.

The steward was a 12yr old child with clip board in hand who did nothing other than keep the judge company.

And there WAS no medical cover either, unless it was the woman serving the burgers in the cafe.

A total rip off!

As most of these competitions are run as businesses, surely they come under the same Trading rules as others? Trade Descriptions Act and all that?
 
Went to a show recently where we were charged FA cover PER HORSE! Thought this was hilarious a haven't seen many horses going to A&E in an ambulance! It was a new centre and their first show so we will give them the benefit of the doubt, HOWEVER when son did have a fall in view of the St Johns they did not even move to come to our assistance. Their response when I asked them later why not was that 'the child is often embarrassed and I should have asked for their help'! God give me strength!
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It's not unusual to have to pay 'per horse'. After all surely a rider with two horses is increasing their risk of having an accident by two? And they will possibly have more helpers around so therefore more people that may be hurt?
However, going back to the OP, I also think it's taking the mick to charge for a certificate they have to have.
For my extra money I'd like to know that the organisers had paid for specific first aid cover.
 
I always end up paying £2 per horse at BSJA shows, but the guy is always there and the one at Summerhouse froze a friends finger and put it back in place after she dislocated it jumping.

The first aider at Hartpury was very concerned when I hit the deck, but then very disappointed that I was fine!! I think they get a bit bored at the shows where no one has an injury!
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I would be annoyed at paying £3 if the first aider wasn't prowling at the arena waiting for warm bodies to help!!
 
What a shame that you did not take the time to speak to me personally before making such assumptions regarding our first aid and officials donation.
We have to take our first aid at work courses by law and this is indeed all most centres have in place. It is a one day course which covers very basic first aid, but does however involve time and a cost. Here at Forest Edge Arena, we certainly do not think this is an adequate cover for equestrian sports, I myself am a qualified nurse, I have worked in the A&E dept at the Norfolk & Norwich Hospital and was a practice nurse at Wroxham and Swaffham during my career, which I guess qualifies me to provide a degree of cover! We also had a St John's Ambulance person on site to provide any back-up required. We also have a GP who can be called at any time when needed and was actually on site on Sunday.
The ambulance station at Swaffham is given a list of show dates and I have ensured that they know the exact location of the Arena and that the nature of our events may require an air ambulance at any time.
We have provided a first Aid room, not an official requirement, equipped with more than the required equipment, to ensure that there is a private area available if required and that there is direct access both from the Arena and to the exterior for any emergency vehicles required. I would like to know which other Centres provide this level of service, care and expertise!
We also have veterinary and farriers on call at all times.
We have spent a tremendous amount of time, thought and money to update the Health & Safety at Forest Edge, we consider this a major priority and have spoken to the local H&S officer to ensure that all possible measures are taken to ensure the safety of everyone attending. We have separated horses, pedestrians and vehicles for instance and provided separate areas for spectators to watch safely. The glass between the Arena and spectator galleries has been replaced with Polycarbonate sheets, which will not shatter if fallen against, etc, etc. All this costs money.
At shows the donation also covers the costs of officials, not just first aid. For all Show Jumping shows we provide an Advanced BSJA Course Designer, 2 judges, a Show Secretary, 2 Arena Party, and a Gate Steward. For Dressage shows we provide a Judge, writer, show secretary, gate steward and arena steward. All these people cost money, some of which is covered by the donation, on a bad day, the donation nowhere near covers the costs. Other types of event also involve officials of varying types.
When we bought Forest Edge in April, our aim was to create a professionally run, safe and friendly Competition Centre, we provide a variety of affiliated and unaffiliated disciplines, all of which are run correctly, safely and in a professional manner. All staff are trained to be friendly, helpful and courteous to visitors.
Having come from a business background, we intend to run Forest Edge on a commercial basis, certainly not with any prospect of making a fortune, but to allow us to continue to invest in providing the Equestrian community with a continually improving and enjoyable place to compete. We intend to still be here providing that service when others who are just relying on cut-prices to establish themselves are no longer viable.
Every week I receive emails and comments from competitors and thier families thanking us for establishing Forest Edge and for some aspect of the care they have received here. These are the small things that make Steve & I keep working 15 hour days, 7 days a week. Since April we have had a total of 5 days off and have taken no drawings at all, we have tried to remain cheerful, helpful and approachable to everyone, including those who phone at 10pm on a Sunday with some mundane query.
We certainly dont pretend to get everything right, but yours is the first complaint we have had regarding the donation, as always, any problem will be discussed within the team and a decision made where applicable.
Penny at Forest Edge Arena
 
Seems to me Penny that the problem is not the charge, but the answer the OP was provided with when they queried the provisions being made? Maybe it would be worth making a poster outlining what provisions have been made for that show and putting it in the secretary's office?

Well done for setting the record straight so calmly - not everyone manages that!
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"far far in excess of any of the charity suppliers!!! "

But in my experience the charity suppliers are not reliable - they can be short of volunteers at the last minute. We gave up using St Johns when we kept getting let down at the last minute. This was over 3 years ago AND we were paying nearly £200 then.
 
Ive paid that before, although usually its £2. Odd thing is that it doesnt seem to matter if they have a professional there or not. Sometimes they have someone who happens to have their first aid certificate - well I got that when I was at school, Im no way good enough to deal with a fallen rider so it makes me cringe!
 
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£400 won't get you an ambulance in Gloucestershire.... doubt your guys will travel that far!!!!

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Completely reliable...and Nationwide does mean Nationwide, staff all over the UK.
And in this case £400 would most def get you an ambulance or rapid response fully equipped emergency vehicle and crew.

From reading this thread, I'm starting to wonder how many events are being charged silly prices and therefore passing the costs to the entrants!!!

What I will say... when mms provide cover...the fee to riders is usually £3 or under
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It sounds to me that the OP was simply peed off that her "day out" cost her an extra £3. FGS In the grand shake up of owning a horse! Also if they had been hurt in any way shape or form & you had coped admirably I wonder if people would then post on a public forum.
We have had a similiar complaint regarding an event my OH offered his services to (voluntarily & for free) to help raise funds. The organisor actually asked a fee towards First Aiders. The fact that he is a Qualified advanced paramedic cut absolutely no slack, well not until someone fell off & dislocated their jaw. Outcome, it was dealt without even a trip to hospital. Some times you wonder why you bother.
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i was simply asking what was i getting for £3 per competitor and was it excessive?

yes, in the grand scheme of things £3 is nothing, especially where horses are concerned, and if i had been given the correct information ie that st. johns were present, then i would have been happy.


BTW as a qualified nurse in the nhs myself i am only too aware at how quickly people will sue rather than say thank you for saving their life.....
 
Surely the point is that even if there are only First Aiders present, they have had the training & the updates to spot the signs of serious injury. ie getting further professional help when necessary, meanwhile keeping the patient safe & providing accurate information when the medics arrive. I do not know of any external FA teams that work for less than £400 per day. On the flip side, what happens when an early rider takes a bad fall & proceedings have to be halted for long periods & in some cases abandoned. All other competitors will require there money back, yet the FA team still require the fee for the day. Unfortunately this isnt a perfect world.
 
NoSurrender - can I answer your question honestly. No it isn't too much. First Aid cover at shows costs a fortune and is required under most societies. bite the bullet - pay and hope you don't need it!
 
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