First barefoot trim mustang roll into white line.

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scewal

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Shoes came off last 8 days ago. Sound on grass and concrete, footsore on hard core,
First barefoot trim yesterday with mustang roll into the white line? Now very uncomfortable, sound on grass but sore stood on concrete, very tender on hardcore.

Is this to be expected? Think farrier has trimmed according to Pete Ramey.
 
I've just finished watching pete ramey's DVD where he says that trimming must leave the horse the same or preferably more comfortable as before, so your trimmer has not trimmed according to pete's ethos.

I'm very surprised the horse needed trimming 8 days after the shoes came off. Other than lightly rasping round any rough edges most horses are best left well alone for the first few weeks.
 
Sorry, my post is misleading, he didn't remove any hoof as such but did a mustang roll. It was pointed out today that the roll is very large and gone into the white line, just as shown on Pete Rameys website.
Just wanted peoples opinion on this type of large roll.
 
Pete doesn't go into the white line except for cases of extreme flare or distal descent of p3 (& poss some other pathologies). Is it def the white line, or is it the water line? (Inner hoof wall which is unpigmented, so looks white).
 
Bottom line is, white line or water line, a trim shouldn't leave a horse less comfortable than before hand. So whatever the farriers done, make sure he knows that it didn't suit the horse, and that it shouldn't be repeated :).
 
ETA: (can't edit on phone) bear in mind that its very early on, so what makes the horse sore now may be totally fine in 9 months time.
 
Two stroke exactly the point of my post, as its her first 'sort of trim' I don't want to go in with guns blazing to farrier 'if' this sort of thing is normal first time.

Will take pics later.
 
Tbh, it could be a rookie mistake by your farrier, if he hasn't transitioned many horses to barefoot. Or it could be an unusual reaction to a small trim. If the farrier has indeed gone into the white line, then it's probably the former. A pic would help to establish what's been done exactly :).
 
was your farrier just your normal farrier or a one who specialises in barefoot horses?

Did he tell you what he was doing and explain why? I think you need to point out the horse is more uncomfortable and ask him about the trim. He may have a very good explanation or if it is going to keep happening it may be the case of finding someone else.
 
According to Ramey - how did he learn, do you know?

In the first book Ramey says to trim bars and frog. He changed this later. Has your farrier trimmed bars or frog?
 
Yes he took a very small amount from her bars, but don't think he trimmed her frog. Off to take some pictures.
He is my normal farrier, but does a barefoot trim my sons pony who has always remained 100% sound.
The difficulty i have here is that a barefoot trimmer looked at her feet (didn't ask her to look!) she is very much anti farrier and said this and that was wrong with his trim. So being new to barefoot i want to get a 'third' opinion so to speak.
 
It is shockingly unprofessional of the barefoot trimmer to give an unsolicited opinion on your horse's feet and to be so blatantly critical of someone else's work. Unless she looked closely at your horse (including seeing her move) and had a detailed discussion with you, how would she know what was wrong with the trim?

It's easy to stand there and criticise someone else, but she really shouldn't be getting involved unless invited!

I agree with paddy 555
Did he tell you what he was doing and explain why? I think you need to point out the horse is more uncomfortable and ask him about the trim. He may have a very good explanation or if it is going to keep happening it may be the case of finding someone else.
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I would be on the phone to the farrier and have a polite discussion with him about your horse. I hope she recovers soon.
 
There is a lot of argument about the so called white line strategy which Pete Ramey does use but doesn't call it that. In my understanding he only uses it along with heel trimming for acute laminitics in severe pain, Get some styrofoam pads and tape them on or use boots. Keep to soft surfaces. Backing up the toe forces a longer stride and heel first landing, this can make horses very sore indeed if the back of the hoof is infected (thrush) or weak and heels have been trimmed at the same time.

ps. A 'mustang roll' does not go into the white line, the inner wall is the bearing surface and left intact.
 
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Pictures:

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That's not a roll

You can't roll a thin wall - he's just rasped the wall away. Looks like he decided to take the toe back to encourage the hoof to shorten a bit. That's Ok, but the rest is questionable imho.
 
scewal said:
Pictures:

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IMG_1234_zps7598e8a7.jpg


IMG_1238_zpse353785c.jpg


IMG_1239_zps1e99b29e.jpg
Click to expand...

Pictures can be deceptive but it looks to me as if your farrier has certainly removed callous at the toe and probably remove callous round the entire edge of the sole. No wonder she is sore if this is not a trick of the photos.
 
All he has done is to thin the hoof wall. In hooves that don't have a thick wall, a "roll" is kind of not really useful and only reduces wall thickness. Agree with CPT - looks like he's removed callus at the toe

Certainly wrong trim for the horse at this time if she is sore - a few weeks' growth and she'll be fine though.
 
Thanks Brucea, in your personal opinion what do i need to ask him to do or not to do for her next trim? Sounds like no roll and leave toe callus? She seems much happier today, not half so sore.
 
Looks to me like he has backed up the toe by rasping the toe wall to the white line. If shoes have only just been removed there may well not have been a toe callous.
Looking at the black, raggy frogs I would treat for thrush.
 
She'll be fine, overall it;s not a horribly bad hoof :) Just needs to have a break from trimming.

I use foot rot spray for the thrush - Septi-Clense - it seems to be working quite well. Everyone has a favourite concoction - but this is quick and easy. Just don't spray your hands or they will be purple for a week :o
 
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