First dog training class- thoughts?

[Nicki85]

So today Rusty and I had our first dog training class, I was bit unsure of some of their methods/ thoughts- could I have your opinions please?

We were asked to only do road walking with our dogs for the next 3-4 months (obv. on lead) and never to allow them to pull. After that we could walk them in the forest/ park on lead- again no pulling. Once we had mastered this offlead then we could allow them to run.

I said that I would not road walk my dog as he would be crazy if he didn't get an off-lead walk (7month Springer...). I was told that the reason why dogs need exercise is because we condition them to need it... We take them for a walk and so therefore they want more walks. Wolves etc. in the wild would only chase their prey and the rest of the time would be spent socialising with the pack- not running around. Fair enough but when a dog has been bred to work all day for hundreds of years surely this does not apply? The trainer said that if you were not to walk your dog for four or so months they would not want a walk again.

Anyhow, I thought this was all abit odd.. Rusty already walks to close in the forest if needed and I'm working on it more.

Also, what are your opinions on clicker training? I've always trained with a clicker and I find dogs really respond to it. But it seems that not everyone agrees...

Lastly, I've got a fair bit of experience training (helping out at the local club, training last Spaniel to a a good level) but I haven't done any clubs for a LONG time (say 6 years or so) so I guess things move on...

Oh and Rusty was a complete star, best behaved dog in the class!

 

[Vizslak]

Sounds bonkers to me Added to that I would imagine that after week two of the no exercise off lead rule you would have real issue trying to keep the pup to heal!

 

[stargirl88]

How is your dog meant to socialise on pavements? I don't agree with that WHATSOEVER. Agree with the no-pulling though.

Clicker training - I find the people who don't think that it works are those who have not used it correctly. (as in, they keep clicking and expect something wonderful to happen) clicker-training is a communication system more than anything. I'm too clumsy to use a clicker so use a word. It's the same thing. Although it is not the be all and end all.

I would probably be looking for another training class if that's what the woman is telling you. I thought she might just be referring to over-exercising!

 

[Nicki85]

Glad it's not just me then that thinks it's crazy. I understand the need to keep them under control but you can teach them without keeping them on the lead all the time- and on the pavements!

 

[Booboos]

The trainer sounds totally bonkers! Dogs should have as much exercise as possible for their physical and mental health. Sounds like you have a lovely dog, who recalls well, so both of you should enjoy long, off-lead walks.

I would find another trainer to be honest.

I really enjoy clicker and would not go to a training class that used anything else (although I have come across the odd clicker trainer who had no clue either!).

 

[CAYLA]

I am glad you questioned the methods and the madness I always say to people " you will hear many opinion and be given varied advice, use your common sense as to what sounds alarming or down right dangerous" this to be is alarming. Telling someone if you don't walk a dog they never need it so what about the other behaviour that comes with denying that dog the exercise it needs and what of it's wellbeing.
And to tell someone to stick to roads for walking, even more so with large breed weight bearing pups imo is not good.

It worries me when I hear of outlandish advice given in regard to training/dealing with dogs, I believe we are headed for more behvioural problems and more discarded dogs than we have ever seen before!
Did they show you how to get your pup to stop pulling? I take it they did and did not just say " don't let them pull"?

Ps, wolves don't live in our homes either lol

 

[Nicki85]

Well no, they did not show us how to make them not pull- thats next week!!! I got told off that Rusty pulled to say hello to the other dogs and I let him. I hate letting dogs meet on the lead anyway as thats when there is likely to be problems, espically if you have a tense lead... I don't care if he wants to say hi to the other dogs- i've checked they are friendly and he knows how to say hello nicely!

My older spaniel has always walked at the end of the lead infront of me- slight tension on the lead but not pulling, I don't mind... she still knows I'm boss!

Dogs thrive on running around off the lead...

I've paid for 6 weeks so will stick with it, using the methods i'm comfortable with, I know how to train a dog and he's not a "problem" dog.... I just thought it would be nice to train with others and for him to socialise! I'm aiming him at agility so once he's a year he will move to that anyway. Doubt I will continue with this club after the 6 months though.

At least he didn't question it when I said that i'd just started moving him onto raw food... (after him having bakers in his last home!)

Oh...one last thing what are your views on teaching sit, down, stand with hand signals only? We were only allowed to use them, no words.... confused!

 

[padderpaws]

The advice sounds very random. What are the trainers qualifications? they should have some but many don't.

As for clicker training it is a very useful tool but it is not the be all and end all.

It was devised to train animals that you cannot touch or push and pull about eg marine mammals, zoo animals etc.

There are many good methods of teaching dogs and if a trainer does not use one it does not mean that they are not a good and competent trainer. Many methods are a lot quicker and easier IMO.

As long as you are happy with the method you use and you are getting results then all well and good. If you are not happy find a new trainer. Lots and lots of road work on lead is not necessary especially for puppies.

 

[Nicki85]

Trainer qualifications are-
Affiliated to the British Institute of Professional Dog Trainers (ABIPDT)
Academy of Dog Training and Behaviour (ADTB)
DAQ-DAward
National Certificate in Canine First aid
ESVPS, KPPI
Kennel Club Examiner

 

[Booboos]

I don't think one should add a command word until the behaviour is established so if that what the trainer meant I think it's good advice, but how is he planning on establishing the behaviour in the first place? If he randomnly gets you to give hand signals it's as useless as randomnly using words the dog doesn't know.

I appreciate you have paid for the course but it might end up costing you more to stay than to walk out at this stage.

There is a bewildering array of qualifications and bodies, but I find trainers on this list tend to be more in line with what I find useful: http://www.apdt.co.uk/

 

[Nicki85]

Ok, understand that- Rusty already knows down, sit and stand to a word command so I guess it was aimed at dogs at a lower level than him ...

I've checked that list and I will be moving over to a different trainer that is in the same vicinity but supports the methods I use (clicker etc.) and also does gundog training which I may be interested in... Wish i'd seen that list before now! Thanks for posting it ;-)
Oh and they are not on it....

 

[Spudlet]

There are a lot of different bodies - personal recommendations are the best way IMO. You won't find us on the list Booboos posted, but I'd like to think we are not entirely useless

The class certainly sounds interesting, and perhaps not entirely in line with what we would advise, although of course there are many different methods and without seeing the class I wouldn't want to be overly critical. I would be concerned about people being told not to let their dogs pull, but not being shown how to stop them - could lead to people yanking their dogs about, confusing them with poorly timed commands etc. That would be like me telling a class to practice a complex retrieve or the stop whistle without actually covering it in class. You need to show people how to do it before you give them homework IMO. Otherwise you end up doing more harm than good.

 

[Booboos]

I didn't mean to imply that the list is exhaustive of good trainers!!!! Far from it! But I have found it, on the whole, to be helpful. Nor is being on that list necessarily a guarantee of being a good trainer. Just a good place to start!

 

[Spudlet]

I didn't mean to imply that the list is exhaustive of good trainers!!!! Far from it! But I have found it, on the whole, to be helpful. Nor is being on that list necessarily a guarantee of being a good trainer. Just a good place to start!

No worries Just pointing out the pitfalls of finding a good trainer! There are so many organisations promising that they have the best methods of everyone... as a trainer, deciding where you sign up is also a bit of a minefield. I think I know where I'll be registering, though I still haven't signed up. It's very hard to know - and there is unfortunately also a fair bit of infighting between the organisations, it seems to me. As far as I can see the main advantage of signing up is that it gives some degree of legitimacy (although I'm not sure how much of a guarantee of quality it really gives, if I'm being really honest) and puts your name onto lists for people to search through.

Ultimately, I think the best thing to do is go along to a class and watch for yourself, before you hand over any cash and commit to anything. I would be very wary of any class that wouldn't let you watch and also have one taster session before you sign up to a course.

 

[ladyearl]

Sounds nothing like the advice that is given at my club. My club is quite realistic and often the instructors refer to how the training indoors can relate to walks and practising while the dog is off the lead on the walks etc.

Clicker is great I went to a workshop and have started doing things with Tess. Amazed at how quickly she's picking it up with the aid of the clicker. I think I am better with the clicker as my brain gets me to click at the right moment without overthinking it - which I am guilty of in regular training.

oh and our club is pay as you go .....

 

[Kitty B]

I personally don't agree with street work only. If we had done that, my dogs never would have been socialized! They have learned a lot more about manners with other dogs playing with them in the park than they have walking past them on the pavement.

As far as clicker training goes, usually I get on with it very well, but my Dalmatian doesn't seem to grasp the concept. He spends all his time trying to figure out why it is making that noise! He's easily distracted. I haven't tried it with our Patterdale, but another dog we had a few years ago took to it very quickly.

 

[lexiedhb]

In some circs I can see why someone would say this. NOT with a 7 month old Springer tho.

Can also be true the more you exercise a dog the more they need- that is not to say they dnt need exercising at all.