First-time Labrador owner

dree said:
The people who don't vaccinate complete (natural rearing) are few and far between, although there are far more than you would think. All of the pups I have bought from breeders have not been vaccinated at my request. (At 8 weeks old, the pups are still covered by the maternal protection of the mother....so any vaccines are a waste of time, and simply putting chemicals into a young body that is not ready for them. Many concerned breeders now are more up to date with how vaccines work.....one vaccine at 14 weeks (when mother's immunity has waned) will last at least 7 years.....if not a lifetime. (Check out Schultz's work.....just google him.) My pups are allowed to build up their own natural immunity. (Very carefully, let me assure you.) I understand that this is not for everyone......but one vaccine of DHP at 14 weeks, and then titre test two weeks later to make sure the vaccines have taken. And no Lepto. It is the most dangerous vaccine that has ever been given to a dog.
Click to expand...
Dobiegirl said:
That last line is untrue, having lost a dog to Lepto and he presented sick on a Sunday morning,seen the vet, back Sunday afternoon and he was admitted and he was on everything you could think of but he had to be put down Monday afternoon to stop him from suffering. This was a young 4 1/2 year old dog fit as a fiddle who looked a million dollars and he had first class care yet still died .
Click to expand...

Can I ask if he was vaccinated against Lepto? And was an autopsy done to confirm Lepto? I am truly sorry to hear that you lost your dog. I also wonder why he was sent home if he was so seriously ill? This is not a criticism of yourself. But a dog with Lepto would be so seriously ill it could not go back home to be watched by yourself. Lepto, if treated quickly with the correct antibiotic will recover. But if the wrong antibiotics are used, then they will not work. Again, my deepest sympathies at the loss of your dog.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
TBH, if there is water anywhere near, a Lab will find it!
Click to expand...

I am aware that this is what the vets are saying......rats, water, blah, blah. But my dogs go everywhere with me all over the country. Imo, and it is only my opinion, the dangerous side-effects of the vaccine are more prevalent than the actual disease. Also, if vaccinated against Lepto, and a dog catches Lepto, the vet will not immediately think Lepto, or treat for Lepto because the dog is vaccinated against it, so they will think it is safe from Lepto. In fact, if you look into the vaccine, the manufacturers state that the Lepto vaccine does not totally protect against the disease......it only gives the dog a lesser affect of the disease. But it still has it.....but if the vet presumes, because it is vaccinated, that it does not have lepto, then the treatment, which needs to start immediately then the dog will become more ill. The kidneys, etc. will now be affected. Vets don't see lepto very often (because it is, in fact, very rare) so they will look into other diseases before they start to treat for lepto. It is a very dangerous vaccines because (a) the side-effects are horrific and (b) the vet will not immediately think lepto, and lepto needs to be treated quickly.
 
Cinnamontoast said:
Absolute anecdote, a colleague got a seemingly healthy pup and is now suing the vet because it died after the vaccs, including Lepto 4.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of anecdotal reports being sent to Merck due to pups dying after the Lepto jab. Particularly the Lepto 4, although L2 is a bad vaccine too. There are also dogs becoming ill with kidney failure, paralysis, epilepsy, death. :(
 
These are stats for dogs on Lepto. 471 for the last recorded year. https://assets.publishing.service.g.../attachment_data/file/637401/hpr2817_zoos.pdf

Scroll down and you come to this:- Quote: "Leptospirosis (data from the Leptospira Reference Unit) There were twelve confirmed cases of leptospirosis reported in the second quarter of 2017, compared with seventeen during the second quarter of 2016. Nine of the cases were male (aged 23-56 years, median=30) and three were female (ages 36, 50 and 65 years). Cases were reported from the following regions: London (3 cases), South East (3 cases), West Midlands (2 cases), and one case each from the North West, South West, Yorkshire and the Humber, and Wales. Two cases reported exposure to rats; one case was a farmer with occupational exposure who reported recently cleaning out a shed infested with rats. Water exposure was reported by one case who had been white water rafting in Scotland." Unquote. So very few human cases of Lepto....which, again, is easily treated. Not nice, but treatable.

This site is also worth looking at. http://www.lepto.co.uk/lepto-survey-results
 
Last edited:
Clodagh said:
I know I am a champion thread derailer but tbh if OP wanted info as a first time owner she is now just getting pages of antivax. Dree, how about you start an anti vax thread for debate seperate to a more general info stuff on here for the OP?
Click to expand...
Whilst I know I do not own this thread, especially being new to this but I am confused by Dree, I was wondering whether to just ignore but I do not think that will make a difference, time and place for your opinions on vaccinations and lepto I don't think this is it. I'm asking for peoples opinions on Labradors and how to cope with neighbour dogs in general.

P.S I am a he not a she but lets not get into some gender debate here, although I'm sure lepto sees no gender anyway
 
If you select a nice calm pup that's half the battle. You give the dog confidence not to worry about trivial things. My two dogs are chalk and cheese personality wise, one was living up a mountain on his own, the other was in a town in a family home in a busy housing estate. Both ignored the shouting going on in the gardens all around them in their new home from day one. They just consider it none of their business.

As before, dogs that go off alarming at nothing all day are generally bored or insecure.
 
The choosing of the puppy I know is a huge deal, like I do not want the one that is front and centre going for the attention but equally do not want one that is shy or backing away. Its going to require a lot of patience and visits I'm sure, will require a lot of restraint not to visit a puppy litter and then convince myself straight away to get one.

The dogs next door are definitely bored, I don't see how they could be anything else I've never seen them with a ball or any sort of dog toy for that matter.
 
Sukhpreet Aujla said:
Whilst I know I do not own this thread, especially being new to this but I am confused by Dree, I was wondering whether to just ignore but I do not think that will make a difference, time and place for your opinions on vaccinations and lepto I don't think this is it. I'm asking for peoples opinions on Labradors and how to cope with neighbour dogs in general.

P.S I am a he not a she but lets not get into some gender debate here, although I'm sure lepto sees no gender anyway
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But having seen people who just follow what their vet says and then end up with a very ill pup, it's become a bit of a crusade for me to warn people to at the very least look into the Lepto vacc, and see if they actually want or need it. Won't bother you any more.
 
Sukhpreet Aujla said:
The choosing of the puppy I know is a huge deal, like I do not want the one that is front and centre going for the attention but equally do not want one that is shy or backing away. Its going to require a lot of patience and visits I'm sure, will require a lot of restraint not to visit a puppy litter and then convince myself straight away to get one.

The dogs next door are definitely bored, I don't see how they could be anything else I've never seen them with a ball or any sort of dog toy for that matter.
Click to expand...

You may well find that the breeder recommends the right puppy for you. Ours have always recommended ones that they felt would be ideal. When you visit the one you chose last time will be asleep this time, and so on. The breeders may not encourage too many visits anyway, it is all extra work, as in they have to be there. You may be third or fourth on the list as well, so you get to pick from the ones that are left. As long as the bitch is confident and friendly I would go on that, more than what the puppies are doing.
 
dree said:
Can I ask if he was vaccinated against Lepto? And was an autopsy done to confirm Lepto? I am truly sorry to hear that you lost your dog. I also wonder why he was sent home if he was so seriously ill? This is not a criticism of yourself. But a dog with Lepto would be so seriously ill it could not go back home to be watched by yourself. Lepto, if treated quickly with the correct antibiotic will recover. But if the wrong antibiotics are used, then they will not work. Again, my deepest sympathies at the loss of your dog.
Click to expand...


Yes he was vaccinated but as you may or may not know there are many strains not covered by the vaccine and my vet said he had only seen one case like this in 30years of practice. He was sent home initially because they didnt think it was Lepto as he was vaccinated, they tested for parvo which he was innoculated for and that was negative. They thought initially gastro and he had injections and was sent home with tablets. As I said he started to deteriorate and coughed up a significant amount of blood and I took him back at 3pm where they kept him in. The head vet rang me the next morning, he said they were treating it as a rare strain of Lepto and it was pointless taking a sample and sending it off because the results would take 3 days to get back. He rang me in the afternoon to say he had deteriorated again and they wanted to pts to save further suffering, I went straight there. He was in an isolation unit and they didnt want me to touch him because of Weils disease but I spoke to him and he lifted his head to look at me and then flopped it back down. I held his paw and spoke to him when they pts, he was just so weak he slipped away. I couldnt even have his collar and obviously they wouldnt let me take him home to bury him. I didnt have an autopsy done, it was pointless.

One of my best friends is a vet nurse and I showed her the Invoice with all the meds on and she said they had given him the right abs as I was questioning whether he had been given the right abs, she is not in anyway connected to this practice.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Yes he was vaccinated but as you may or may not know there are many strains not covered by the vaccine and my vet said he had only seen one case like this in 30years of practice. He was sent home initially because they didnt think it was Lepto as he was vaccinated, they tested for parvo which he was innoculated for and that was negative. They thought initially gastro and he had injections and was sent home with tablets. As I said he started to deteriorate and coughed up a significant amount of blood and I took him back at 3pm where they kept him in. The head vet rang me the next morning, he said they were treating it as a rare strain of Lepto and it was pointless taking a sample and sending it off because the results would take 3 days to get back. He rang me in the afternoon to say he had deteriorated again and they wanted to pts to save further suffering, I went straight there. He was in an isolation unit and they didnt want me to touch him because of Weils disease but I spoke to him and he lifted his head to look at me and then flopped it back down. I held his paw and spoke to him when they pts, he was just so weak he slipped away. I couldnt even have his collar and obviously they wouldnt let me take him home to bury him. I didnt have an autopsy done, it was pointless.

One of my best friends is a vet nurse and I showed her the Invoice with all the meds on and she said they had given him the right abs as I was questioning whether he had been given the right abs, she is not in anyway connected to this practice.
Click to expand...

The main point in your post was that they did NOT suspect Lepto because he was vaccinated. This is one of the danger points when you have a dog vaccinated against Lepto. There are only three main strains of Lepto in this country.....a "rare" strain is their "get out" clause. If they had treated him straight away, he would have had a chance......but going home and then going back....it has to be given quickly. Sadly, this proves my point that vets rule out Lepto if a dog is vaccinated against it. Many, many cases of Lepto are from the vaccine itself. And the vaccine manufacturers themselves state that the vaccines does NOT protect against Lepto.....the dog gets a "milder" form......but if not treated quickly that "milder" form will still cause death. Again, my sincere condolences on your loss. :(
 
dree said:
The main point in your post was that they did NOT suspect Lepto because he was vaccinated. This is one of the danger points when you have a dog vaccinated against Lepto. There are only three main strains of Lepto in this country.....a "rare" strain is their "get out" clause. If they had treated him straight away, he would have had a chance......but going home and then going back....it has to be given quickly. Sadly, this proves my point that vets rule out Lepto if a dog is vaccinated against it. Many, many cases of Lepto are from the vaccine itself. And the vaccine manufacturers themselves state that the vaccines does NOT protect against Lepto.....the dog gets a "milder" form......but if not treated quickly that "milder" form will still cause death. Again, my sincere condolences on your loss. :(
Click to expand...
My dog was seen Sunday morning and was pts Monday afternoon, I cant help thinking you are twisting the facts for your own ends. It was a really hot summer so no standing water anywhere, my dog had not been in the river and had not killed any rats or been anywhere near any. He didnt have a temperature or any muscle stiffness so no reason for the vet to suspect Lepto initially, as for a rare strain being their get our clause is fanciful at best. I just hope someone like Aru who is a member on here and a vet can comment and correct some of your comments. You are anti vaccine I get that but you cant go twisting things to prove your point. The vet didnt mention because he was vaccinated against Lepto they were ruling it out, if you look it up he wasnt displaying Lepto symptoms.
 
Dobiegirl said:
My dog was seen Sunday morning and was pts Monday afternoon, I cant help thinking you are twisting the facts for your own ends. It was a really hot summer so no standing water anywhere, my dog had not been in the river and had not killed any rats or been anywhere near any. He didnt have a temperature or any muscle stiffness so no reason for the vet to suspect Lepto initially, as for a rare strain being their get our clause is fanciful at best. I just hope someone like Aru who is a member on here and a vet can comment and correct some of your comments. You are anti vaccine I get that but you cant go twisting things to prove your point. The vet didnt mention because he was vaccinated against Lepto they were ruling it out, if you look it up he wasnt displaying Lepto symptoms.
Click to expand...

If you look up Lepto symptoms, some can be very vague.....particulary in vaccinated dogs, as the lepto is not so severe....therefore is not treated quick enough. I shall be interested in a vet disagreeing with the actual manufacturer.

Again, sorry for your loss. No-one likes to lose a young dog. :(
 
Tiddlypom said:
Dree, please take the advice given to bog off and start your own anti vaxxing thread if you must. Do not further hi jack this one.
Click to expand...

I had already decided not to.....see my post saying that people should think about vaccines before buying a pup. And I felt that Dobiegirl deserved a response.
 
Clodagh said:
You may well find that the breeder recommends the right puppy for you. Ours have always recommended ones that they felt would be ideal. When you visit the one you chose last time will be asleep this time, and so on. The breeders may not encourage too many visits anyway, it is all extra work, as in they have to be there. You may be third or fourth on the list as well, so you get to pick from the ones that are left. As long as the bitch is confident and friendly I would go on that, more than what the puppies are doing.
Click to expand...
The advice on the bitch makes sense, I've been reading a lot about puppy farming and how to avoid them and one of the ways was to see how the bitch interacts with what should be her litter, as long as the parents are both of the "show" variety I think that's a good starting point. The more I read about puppy farming the more wary I am of all breeders, apparently Wales is the hub of puppy farming and the one puppy I have come very close to was from Wales, I declined because the sire had elbow score of 1 but it does stick in my mind (I know this doesn't mean all breeders in Wales are puppy farmers obviously).

Regarding Dree and the lepto, you are obviously passionate about animals lepto vaccinations etc but have some respect for what I am trying to do here, if you felt someone deserved a response that you had to give I'm sure you can message them privately. If you are on a crusade to warn people about it then start your own thread, you have that option and that will obviously get your message out to more people rather than continuously posting in a thread labelled "First-time Labrador owner".
 
OP, can I point out, that contrary to at least one post on your thread, when you get your pup you will be training it all the time, whether you intend to do so or not. Every interaction will teach your pup something about you and your expectations.

I, personally, don't like to have a single dog but if you do, it will be dependent on you for companionship, as well as for meeting all its other basic needs. Labs, especially show-bred ones, generally are lovely, relatively easy dogs who make super family pets. You have made a good choice of breed.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
OP, can I point out, that contrary to at least one post on your thread, when you get your pup you will be training it all the time, whether you intend to do so or not. Every interaction will teach your pup something about you and your expectations.

I, personally, don't like to have a single dog but if you do, it will be dependent on you for companionship, as well as for meeting all its other basic needs. Labs, especially show-bred ones, generally are lovely, relatively easy dogs who make super family pets. You have made a good choice of breed.
Click to expand...
Was it a post by myself? Training is an everyday thing to do I thought so I should not have said anything to the contradict that, I am looking for help from a professional dog trainer but not to do the work for me.

I personally feel going from zero dogs to two in one go would be way too much, with one I can give it 100% of my attention. Companionship won't be an issue, preventing separation anxiety will be a bigger concern. I've always loved Labradors so I'm lucky that particular breed is ideal for a first dog, although I wasn't aware of the difference between working and show Labradors until I started researching them.
 
Sukhpreet Aujla said:
Was it a post by myself? Training is an everyday thing to do I thought so I should not have said anything to the contradict that, I am looking for help from a professional dog trainer but not to do the work for me.

I personally feel going from zero dogs to two in one go would be way too much, with one I can give it 100% of my attention. Companionship won't be an issue, preventing separation anxiety will be a bigger concern. I've always loved Labradors so I'm lucky that particular breed is ideal for a first dog, although I wasn't aware of the difference between working and show Labradors until I started researching them.
Click to expand...


No it wasn't one of your posts. The point I was trying to make is that 'training' is something that you do all the time with your dog, especially with a pup. You can't just train it at specific times and let it do as it pleases, or even worse leave it in a crate,the rest of the time. Every interaction you have with your dog should consistently reinforce your expectations of normal, everyday behaviour. Of course if you decide to work your dog or do agility classes or something that would need specific training when the pup is older.

By the way, I am not against crate training, my 2 pups are having a rest in their crate with door shut atm, but I am against leaving them in there for most of the time.
 
Okay that makes sense, I always thought of training as something fun to do and help create a bond with the dog anyway so I'm expecting to do it everyday. Also I assume the training needs constant reinforcing as the dog goes from puppy to adult picks up new habits and learns more.

I only want my dog in a crate overnight, in the day I will leave try to the dog alone in a playpen area and try to help it be okay on its own for a while, probably starting with 10 minutes alone building it up slowly. I work in the evenings and my parents can help out then so in theory the dog could never be on its own, but I still want it to be okay alone should it need to happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top