First time of really feeling unsafe!

[JoBo]

Otto was a little sod last night and I really don’t know why?

I rushed down the yard as I wanted to get out for a hack while there was still a bit of daylight. Tried to get him in and he didn’t want to come out of the field (properly because Gem was still out there with another horse) so I pulled and pushed and eventually got him in. Tacked up, jumped on (wouldn’t stand still), and tried to get down the drive way out on to the road, now I’m not kidding I was having to do ‘pony club’ kicks to even get him to move.
Eventually got out onto the road, turned onto another road which has two small ponies in a field on it. Well the bugger planted his feet (I know he’s not keen on these ponies but has always gone past), and would he move, like hell would he! I kicked, I shouted, I even resorted to giving him a bit of a whack. I didn’t actually want to hit him to much because I thought he might rear up, not that he ever has with me, but I just wasn’t quite 100% sure, probably just being stupid.

So I gave up jumped off and lead him past the ponies. He grew about 2 hands and I was literally hanging off the end of the reins (he’s actually a bloody big horse when he wants to be). I also now feel guilty as I had to soak him in the mouth a few times to actually get him under control.

So I walked him home as there was no where safe to get back on and he was just being a prat! So in the 5 months I have had Otto this was the first time I have actually felt unsafe on him, and I went home feeling such a failure because I had to get off him.

Once I got home I lunged him for a bit in the school (just incase there was something wrong) but he lunged beautifully. I think he knew I was upset with him as he kept giving me his puppy dog eyes, and even once he had his tea kept putting his head up to look at me.

This just isn’t like Otto. At least I feel a bit better now I’m getting off my chest and telling you guys. My OH just didn’t understand last night why it had upset me!

Thanks for reading. Any advice incase I have to deal with this again?
JoElla

 

[kellymorgan]

poor you maybe it was a one off!
bertie played up last night aswell i got home and i rushed to ride to ride and wen i was going to the school the swang onto bertie and made him rush through as he is a wimp and he broke my stirrup leathers. i have to find some more now before sunday!!!!

 

[catherinep]

Welcome to spring! they know that spring is in the air and I guess that many of our dearly beloved are trying it on a bit at this time of year....

There was a good forum a few weeks ago on napping/planting feet - I put my very naughty cob into reverse, quietly go backwards, turn him round and on he goes - beats tyring to beat them into it!!!

I think that they are all starting to feel the effects of the sap rising etc etc - more work, less food is my tried and tested solution!

 

[JAK]

I think spring is on its way JoElla, some of ours are being right little s*ds at the moment too!

Little Black One dumped littlest daughter unceremoniously in the mud (by suddenly trotting off VERY briskly!) & went scooting back to the gate, looking TOTALLY unperturbed (& not remotely guilty!) by this & then spent 10 minutes galloping flat out on the lunge, bucking, snorting, rolling his eyes & doing a good impression of the Black Stallion!
(He's in his 20's with a supposedly dodgy knee...yeah, right!)

Small White Useless One was led round yesterday by (very!) large father instead of small child, as I thought she had a 'look' about her & sure enough.......much spinning, snorting, spooking (at everything!), plunging & rearing ensued before a gruff voice told her to 'pack it in, you little twerp!'

Don't know what Otto's fed on but I have already knocked some of the alfalfa on the head now & food-wise, am starting to prepare them for spring, so will be cutting back on the balancer shortly too!
They are starting to leave a bit more hay now as well, so are obviously no longer requiring full 'winter rations'! Course, mine are all ponies, so they're a bit different to horses anyway but even the horses on the yard have been getting very 'silly' of late!
(One TB mare broke her lead rope 3 times the other night & went charging off at full-pelt, despite us all standing around like 'cricket fielders', we just weren't quick enough to grab her! LOL)

 

[AmyMay]

Isn't it typical - always on the days we are in a hurry?

Even our trusty old nags have off days - and sometimes you've just got to get off and put them away for another day.

 

[JoBo]

Yeah, you are all properly right, spring is in the air, great! Otto is normally such a chilled out soul that it probably shocked me more then it would normally say if I had been on a different horse. He is on quite a large quantity of food at the moment as we were finding he was lacking in energy when being schooled but maybe you are right JAK about downing the Alfa-a slightly.

I know I shouldn’t but I just thinking ‘oh why did I sell Ella, who was a fantastic schoolmistress to buy a youngster?’. I know in my heart that I needed the next stage and I had taken Ella as far as I could but it was just going round in my head last night.

I’m going to do a bit of jumping on him tonight so hopefully he will redeem himself.

Horses, they give you such highs but at the same time can give you such lows!

JoElla

P.S Hope you daughter was Ok after Little Black One dumped her!

 

[Vindaloo]

Hi Jo,
I've not been on here for ages and having read your post can totally sympathise. I have been through EXACTLY the same with Dougal. For a while he went through the bucking stage, we got through that with very determined riding and the judicious use of a strudy neck strap!

He knuckled under and has been an angel ever since BUT... tokk him out a couple of weeks ago and we had to go past a golf course which was hidden by trees. All Dougs could hear was the swish, thwack, ping of the clubs hitting the balls. He grew from the 17hh monster he actually is to something close to a skyscrpaer. Jogging sideways, snatching at the bit, half rearing when I asked him to stop for a car, swinging his bum in to the middle of the road....in short HORRIBLE and I was pretty shaken up since he is usually such a sane chap.

I guess not only is it spring but they are like children and need to constantly try us out. In my opinion you did exactly the right thing in getting off. Although some say that is letting them off the hook I don't agree. He still had to go past and do as he was told and you minimised the risk of an accident and an argument you may not have won. If you really are going to have to take him to task over something you need to be in the safest surroundings pref with someone there to help.

I often worry I've taken too much on with a youngster but Jo, look at what you have achieved with him so far. I am STILL aiming to meet you out on the circuit with the big, grey dollop. You're a LOT further on with your chap so don't let this get you down.

xx

 

[JAK]

Well, as I say, mine are all ponies (fat & greedy!) but so far my priority has been keeping their weight stabilised over winter but with spring just around the corner, I'm not too bothered if they drop a few pounds here & there from now on in!

It's difficult if Otto is prone to being a bit lethargic anyway as you don't want him turning into a complete blob but if he IS having any feed that could be considered remotely 'heating', especially stuff that you won't necessarily be wanting to feed over the summer anyway, I would've thought NOW is the time to be cutting it down a little!
Play it by ear, just a handful taken out here & there should do it!

Just MHO, if they are no longer needing their current feed level partly just to stay WARM, it's going to be channelled into other areas of 'usefulness', isn't it?
And ours are being ridden MORE now, which is the opposite to what you'd expect but it's obvious from their moulting etc. that they're hardly considering freezing to death at the moment, so we're making the most of their energy levels to get 'em a bit fitter & put said energy to good use!

I don't CHANGE our lot's food much......but I TWEAK it quite a bit!

 

[JoBo]

Thanks, that's really nice to hear! Yesterday I was just so unsure if I had done the right thing by getting off and then I felt guilty because I did have to be really strong with him. Then all last night I was doubting my ability of being able to own a youngster.- You know all these thoughts keep flying though your head, don’t they?

My instructor did say to me that Otto is going though a bit of a ‘teenager stage’, as he is just starting to really muscle up and is coming out of himself personality wise, e.g testing the boundaries. I suppose not having a youngster before I didn’t realize the stages they can go though.

Thanks again for all your kind words. We are off to another dressage comp on Sunday so hopefully he will be a good boy there, which is when it matters most!

 

[charlottenicol]

Know exactly how you feel, self preservation also takes a grip, my 17h 7yr Clydesdale started playing up in January and I had 2 really nasty falls, have now asked for help from my friend who is probably the most experienced person I know and she is working wonders with him, they also run trail riding holidays, so am going to send him on a couple of trails, suppose a bit like a fun boarding school for him. Love him to bits but he really changed, but his getting back to his old self now which is nice to see.

 

[chestnut cob]

It just sounds like one of those days! Sometimes they don't want to cooperate at all. Don't worry about it, they all have these days (mine has more of "those" days than any other!! Last night he decided if he couldn't tank me off into the huge jump left up then he was going to canter round madly on the wrong leg, or completely disunited

).

Spring is definitely on the way though. What are you feeding him? Mine is now only getting about a quarter of what he was getting. He's down to just a scoop of Hifi Lite and 1/4 of a scoop of economy mix. When the bag of mix runs out (about 3 days time!) he won't be getting it at all!

 

[JoBo]

Yeah, it does seem to be quite a fine balance the whole food issue.

Otto is only on Alfa-a oil (which I know has more energy then the original but it’s meant to be good for condition) and Allen and Page’s calm and condition, so nothing to high energy but as you say it’s getting warmer so he doesn’t need it to stay warm.

I will speak to my instructor on the weekend just to see what she thinks.

Next hack out will be with my sister and her horse, I bet you he is as good as gold though, little (well not so little at 16hh) sod!

 

[JoBo]

Was just speaking to JAK about the whole feed issue. He is getting quite a bit because we found he was lacking energy when schooling. He's on alfa-a oil and calm and condition, so nothing to heating.

But I will talk to my instructor and see about cutting it down a bit?

Thanks!

 

[chestnut cob]

TBH I think it's more just one of those days. If the feed was heating him up I think you'd probably have seen signs of it before now.

Ride again tonight and try not to think about it. I'm sure he'll be fine today!

 

[Sal_E]

Poor you

These things do sometimes happen. He was obviously put out by being brought out of the field, he's then picked up on your rushing which, as he was in the wrong state of mind, has wound him up further. The fact that he didn't want to be taken away, you were rushing, it was getting dark, presumably nearly dinner time etc but just started you both off on the wrong foot. Now you know he can do this, even if very rarely, with hindsight I would say that maybe you should have taken him in the school where you would have felt safer & therefore more comfortable to insist that he worked on your terms.

With regard to getting off, getting after him & winding both of you up further, I can totally related to how you felt as I got totally stuck by the gypsy site inbetween your yard & mine last weekend! She just planted her feet, grew a hand, stuck her head in the air, rigid neck & shook. Scary stuff, just waiting for a possible explosion! If I put my leg on, she backed up & got more wound up. So, I said fine, we'll just stand here (thank god there were not cars as I was stuck in the middle of the road...). We stood for several minutes, I relaxed my reins by had my hands very forward so that if she did anything I could immediately bring my hands back & have short reins - you don't want to be scrabbling for reins mid spin... After a few mis I asked her to walk on, she went backwards. I firmly made her stand for probably nearly 5 mins, asked again, she took a couple of steps forwards whilst I rubbed her neck & told ehr she was good in a light hearted voice (didn't feel that confident really!). She planted her feet again, I said fine, lets stand again. Chatted to her & rubbed her neck whilst laughing & telling her she was daft. Just kept doing this & occassionally asking her to go on. I did tap her neck with the stick once but she lifted her front legs off the ground so I could tell that was not thing to do. In the end, she shot off, I kept her at trot as I knew she wouldn't walk & its always safer to let them go forwards then try to fight with them.

I think you should have made him stand, even if you were there for 20 minutes - not sure if daylight would have allowed this - you may need to avoid dodgy light for a while now so you don't risk running out of time. Next time you go past there, probably best to go with your sister but keep Otto in front so you can judge his reaction - he may now decide this is his bogey spot, or he may never do it again - who knows!

It is scary but I personally think best reaction is NO reaction - there is no point putting him under pressure as he will win if he wants to. You need the time to sit it out & make out that it's just no big deal. Then, there's no falling out, he hasn't won & he's not wound up...

I'm sure it was just a blip!

 

[JoBo]

I'm sure you are right. I know he's not keen on small ponies anyway (the only time he has ever done a real spook was at a foal!). Don't know why but maybe he was picked on by one?

Yeah you are right I should have gone in the school, but I have been going in the school all winter and I just fancied getting out. Especially as I have a lesson on Saturdays and our out most Sundays at some sort of comp.

I have never had to deal with a horse that plants its feet before; Ella was more of a run past it as fast as you can type of pony. So I didn’t really know the best way to deal with but thanks for your advice, and if the little git tries it again that’s exactly what I will do!

 

[Sal_E]

For some odd reason, small ponies are the most frightening thing ever for so many horses! Foals & shetlands are the scariest for sure!

 

[chestnut cob]

PMSL! True! Mine is terrified of those mini shetlands! Will not walk past them. There are some near the yard and it takes ages to get him past them. One of them runs along the fence neighing and that sends my horse off into orbit!!

 

[dressagespain]

JoElla,

Don't you think that if you were in a rush, you sent vibes to the horse that there was something to panic about? It always happens, I see it time and time again, and have been guilty my self of it. If you are in a rush, then the horse thinks there is something to panic about. This is the reason why he will be acting like he is, it will be a lack of confidence. You said he was a young horse??

Word of advice - NEVER get off a horse that is acting on on a hack, you do not have any control from the floor, you need to be on his back to have the control.

 

[Sal_E]

Dressagespain, I think that is potentially dangerous advice. I agree that it is bad to get off a horse, they are more likely to get away from you & not great for solving the problem for next time. However, to say NEVER get off is not right. You have to think of your own safety first, if the bloody horse is on a death wish you HAVE to put yourslef first. You should stay on, try to defuse the situation (getting after a horse on the road is not what you want to do) & not cause an argument (as elaborated on in my earlier post) - BUT, if you are beaten, you have to be sensible & big enough to admit that - get off, get home & then decide what action needs to be taken. Personal safety first.

Jo felt she had no choice, she was caught short - I think she possibly could have stayed on & solved it by keeping him still but we weren't there - she made the decision to get off & I'm relieved that was her story, not that both horse & rider went down on the road because she tried to 'sort him out'.

 

[JoBo]

Thanks for you opinion dressagespain. I just did what I felt I had to at the time. I felt I was getting no where by just kicking, and I didn't want to give up and not go pasted the ponies. I have never dealt with a horse that naps before and yes Otto is my first youngster.

I just fancied going out for a hack as I have been going in the school all winter and just felt we needed a change (I have a lesson on Saturday and out at comps most Sundays, just little local stuff).
Ok, so you are right I shouldn't have rushed and yes maybe Otto did pick up on my vibes but I just wanted to do something different.

Lesson learned.

Thanks,
JoElla

 

[JoBo]

Thanks Sally, I just did what I felt was right at the time. You know what it’s like when you are on your own and you have to make that quick decision. I’m sure people probably think that I shouldn’t have brought a youngster but at the end of the day I could have gone out and brought an older horse and had 100 times more problems then I really have had with Otto, don’t you think?
At least I’m not doing it on my own, I have a very, very good instructor that I have lessons with every week, and she schools Otto for us once a week as well.
Well this is what I was telling myself last night when I was questioning whether I should have brought a youngster anyway!

 

[dressagespain]

Sally, It is not dangerous advice. If you get off a young horse whilst out on a hack, you are making more problems for yourself and can potentially end up with yourself damaged anyway. And IF by any chance you feel it is a good idea or that you may have to get off the horse, you should always have a long rope with you to hold onto the horse.

I have personally seen too many accidents where people think it is a) a good idea to hack a youngster out alone, most especially near a road, no matter how quiet and b) do not ride out with appropraite tack on that they can stay in control of the horse.

I have had many many youngsters - my latest 4 yr old is 17.2 and I am 7 stone. And i never hack him out with out someone there on the ground at the beginning and then when doing it on my own, with stronger tack on, I always take my time and go as far as the horse wants or is confident enough to go.

BUT it is all a learning curve for people new to having young horses, and I admit that you should accpet when you are beaten but perhaps a better idea is not to take the risk at all?? Youngsters are not at all like an older horse and absolutely everything has to be done with them in mind and not other factors.

 

[dressagespain]

JoElla,

Of course you should have bought a youngster, at least then you can learn together!! Its so rewarding at the end of the day when you know the work and results are your own making.

Sometimes its a steep learning curve!! I fell off one of my youngsters nearly everyday for 6 months when he was 3 and he is still a bugger now at 8!!! But you always keep learning.

You should always just keep it in your mind that they are only kids!! Have endless patience - which is sometimes very hard!!!

Good luck with him, which one is he on the photos??

 

[JoBo]

He's the bay with the blaze. He really is such a laid back chappie, well normally, that's why I was a bit shocked, (think he was luring me into a false sense of security)!

He's actually 6 this year (born 2000) but was only broken last March but did nothing (not even hacking) until I brought him last September. He really is doing well (got 60% in our last dressage test). I have hacked him out a few times on his own before and have never had a problem. In fact on our last hack together I even felt brave enough to have a little canter. I think that’s why I just felt so disheartened.

I would like to carry on with the lone hacking just because I only really have my sister to hack with and I don’t always want to rely on her. I’m thinking next time of coming past the ponies but doing it on the way home to the yard as opposed to on the way out? Funny how last weekend I hacked him over a bridge which goes over quite a main road (I was with my sister on her horse), and he didn’t batter an eyelid and yet ponies are the scariest thing in the world. Horses are funny creatures, but you wouldn’t change them for the world, would you?

 

[chestnut cob]

I have got off my nappy horse before now when he won't go past something or go forwards. I know a lot of people don't agree with it but in my case I felt it was better that he went forwards, however I had to do it, than we turned around and went home. The next time we went to go past it (some gates he didn't like!) there was less of a problem.

 

[dressagespain]

I know what you mean, my 8 yr old will go past something making a load of racket but show him a bush that wasn't there before and all hell breaks loose!!! But hes a star really!!

 

[lordflynn]

I have as well-its better than admitting defeat although I might be wary if it were a very big horse. Mine had a freak out and some ever so scary white piping last night when I was longreining him around the estate so I led him over it (3 times

)-dont see anything wrong with it-we have a good on-the-ground relationship and he trusted me enough to follow me even though he didnt fancy going first.

 

[Sal_E]

DS, it IS dangerous advice!!! I believe you are totally wrong.

OK, I do not get off myself but that's not to say that I will never do that, I've just not had reason to do so in the past. Let's say you are on a road, the horse is spooking, you get caught out on a slippery surface, you can hear hooves scarbling around for balance, you're on a blind bend & you can hear something coming - motorbike, van, tractor, whatever. You are frightened, don't know what to do, feel out of control & are clearly nor riding proprely because the fear has taken hold. Are you telling me you are still best to sit there & let events take hold of themselves? I think not. Right, so that's an extreme & there's an argument for 'what were you doing there in the first place' BUT, like Jo, we can all get caught out at times when a horse does something totally out of character, as Otto did. Jo purchased Otto on the belief that even though he was young, he was pretty laid back & safe - far more so that lots of older horses in fact. So far, he's proved her right & they've come on in leaps & bounds - she's done thing slowly & sensibly (as you suggest), with professional advice at all times. She got caught out, simple as that. I got caught out on the weekend, I stayed on because I was able to diffuse the situation - however, if my horse had started turning herself inside out in the middle of the road & if I could hear cars coming, I may well have got off. My safety comes first - as should all riders.

 

[chestnut cob]

That's exactly the same as mine. He is definitley a follower, not a leader. If something is terrifying he would rather I went first!

I have the same thing with water. He hates the hosepipe and having his feet washed. What I've started doing is hosing my feet first, so he can see that, then hosing him after. He's much better now that he's seen mum have her feet hosed off! He still doesn't like it but he doesn't dance around and shiver!