Fit for breeding?

jenki13

jenki13

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Hi all,

I have been thinking of breeding my mare for over a year now, but would appreciate any thoughts &/or advice on the matter.

She's a 16hh shire x TB don't know her exact breeding but 2 half brothers are intermediate eventer's last heard & we know the person who owns her full brother. She is just rising 13 now is this ok for a maiden mare? We may even wait till next year which would make her foaling at 15.

Conformation wise, she is quite good, ok paces, nothing flashy but tracks up well. Jumping she has a lot of scope, powerful & picks up in front well.
However, she works heavily on the forehand & could do with an improvement in her movement. She is slightly long in the back.. Would like something with nice uphill movement & possibly something to refine her a little.

Looking to breed an all-rounder, for keeps not to sell on (hopefully!). What breeding would anyone suggest? Also is it better for a mare to be fit when she is put in foal?

Photo:
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Hi There, its the oldest question in the book really, why do you want to breed and can you say you will def keep the foal?
Problem is with such good youngstock being produced and sold for peanuts you need to be sure its what you want to do and have the financial means to do so.

If you do decide to, make sure you chose something that will be saleable if you find yourself in the position that you cant keep the foal/youngster.

Look for a stallion that will improve your mare and give you the best chance to get an improved foal, make sure you can and meet any potential daddy that you chose!
 
Thanks for the reply. This mare has a fantastic temperament & has good talent which unfortunately due to me having an accident & then being away at uni for 3 years hasn't really been fully reached. I'd love to breed from her to have a youngster for myself to bring on. I got the current mare at 7 but at the same level as a 5yr old regarding training. Although I understand that the foal may not develop mums attitude!

I would definitely keep the foal. My family own the land my mare is currently on & we make our own hay/haylage so costs are kept to more of a minimum & it would have to be a grave financial crisis to have to sell it. I would rather loan it out than do so. I'll also add that my Dad has had the thought of breeding from her even after having her for a reasonably short time.

I'm not looking for the next badminton winner but predominantly would want it for eventing/SJ. Also by the time the foal is 4 the mare would be 18/19 & probably reaching retirement so it would hopefully provide a nice subsequent horse for me.
 
Oh & also what size stallion would you suggest? Might sound stupid but does the stallion have to be bigger / same height as the mare if having a natural covering?
I don't particularly want anything too big, as I'm quite short, although I know that she could throw a large foal.
 
You might find it easier to go down the AI route, opens you to a bigger range of stallions and is less of a risk of the mare getting injured during covering. Also means you can pick a smaller stallion without any issues.
Other factor is how much do you want to spend on your stallion fee!
 
What will you do if she throws something that looks like a full shire? It's a big risk breeding from a cross breed like that. I had a horse who was much heavier and taller than either his father (who was shire cross but did not look it) or his mother. I once saw one of his half brothers, out of a TB mare, and it was 18 hands and looked like a full shire.

She does, though, look very sweet and if she's straight and sound, personally I'd give it a go if you fancy a foal to keep, but definitely go for a purebred stallion so as to minimise the possibility of getting something you don't want.
 
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I've really posted a couple similar questions; i'm considering breeding when my mare is 14. been told that basically thats not too old if she's healthy and it helps if the mare is fit when shes put in foal-but dont take my word on that as there are some very experienced breeders on here and im just repeating what they have said! :)
 
cptrayes said:
What will you do if she throws something that looks like a full shire? It's a big risk breeding from a cross breed like that. I had a horse who was much heavier and taller than either his father (who was shire cross but did not look it) or his mother. I once saw one of his half brothers, out of a TB mare, and it was 18 hands and looked like a full shire.

She does, though, look very sweet and if she's straight and sound, personally I'd give it a go if you fancy a foal to keep, but definitely go for a purebred stallion so as to minimise the possibility of getting something you don't want.
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Her 2 half-brothers that event are heavier than her & her full brother is a lot finer looks almost pure TB! She is only 1/4 shire so I'm hoping that she won't throw anything too heavy & is also the reason I am wary of introducing another heavy horse crossbred such as IDxTB. So just because they look more like full shires doesn't mean the aren't able ;) :) so in answer I would still keep it.

Thanks for the advice, I've looked at a couple of pure TB stallions & I've also looked at a couple of arab x TB stallions. The others I've found are all warmbloods? Not sure what crossing her with one would result in :confused:
 
jenki13 said:
Her 2 half-brothers that event are heavier than her & her full brother is a lot finer looks almost pure TB! She is only 1/4 shire so I'm hoping that she won't throw anything too heavy & is also the reason I am wary of introducing another heavy horse crossbred such as IDxTB. So just because they look more like full shires doesn't mean the aren't able ;) :) so in answer I would still keep it.

Thanks for the advice, I've looked at a couple of pure TB stallions & I've also looked at a couple of arab x TB stallions. The others I've found are all warmbloods? Not sure what crossing her with one would result in :confused:
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a warmblood x tb x shire really would be a lottery! I'd stick closer to a full tb or 15/16th tb, or as you said an anglo arab would still give you the fine blood, warmbloods unless you pick a particularly tb influenced line could still give you a throw back to the older style heavier set warmbloods in combination with the shire blood.
 
dianchi said:
You might find it easier to go down the AI route, opens you to a bigger range of stallions and is less of a risk of the mare getting injured during covering. Also means you can pick a smaller stallion without any issues.
Other factor is how much do you want to spend on your stallion fee!
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I was unsure about AI as it increases the cost having to have the vet to do it..
Currently looking at stallions of £500> if I can find a suitable stallion... A lot of stallions that i've found who are more expensive are also miles away so probably wouldn't be able to get to see them, which is a pre-requisite in my books.
 
if you're trying to breed and eventer i'd go for more TB.
there are so many awesome TB eventers out there to choose from.
if you want there are also trakehners to add blood but i'm not sure how the cross would go.
for refinement and blood personally i'd look at Grafenstolz.
he's 1000EUR LFG. although again, i'm not sure how the Trak blood would mix with Shire x TB
 
Tazhazzamoose said:
I've really posted a couple similar questions; i'm considering breeding when my mare is 14. been told that basically thats not too old if she's healthy and it helps if the mare is fit when shes put in foal-but dont take my word on that as there are some very experienced breeders on here and im just repeating what they have said! :)
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I'll check your thread out! But its good to hear, that most think this age is fine :) . Hope you have luck with putting your mare in-foal! :D
 
hello. she looks a lovely mare and if you are planning on keeping the foal then i don't see any reason why you shouldn't breed from her. her age is not a major problem, although she may need more in the way of oxy jabs to clear fluid and so on - in breeding terms she is already an "elderly" mare.

if you want to breed an eventer it makes sense to use a stallion who is doing that job, and as she is a cross bred horse with heavy parents, i would agree with the people who have said use a TB, anglo arab, Trakehner or similar.

suggestions would be:

Primative Proposal. slightly more than your stipulated stud fee, but very proven and marketable. he is a pure TB.

Contis. another horse producing good quality foals. some dressage blood to improve the paces, but with a good jump as well.

Persiflage. beautiful anglo arab - i liked the look of this one at the stallion display.


i would recommend getting your vet to do a pre-breeding examination to check she is going to be straightforward to breed from, and remember that the stud fee is the cheapest part of breeding.

good luck with your decisions.
 
...and anyway, I'm bloody sick of people lecturing others on how they shouldn't be breeding because they might not be able to keep the foal for the rest of its life dadeedadeeda... and how you ought to really look at buying the foals THEY have already bred and don't seem to be able to sell, while they themselves carry on sending their mares to be covered year in year out regardless... :mad:

Anyway, rant over, and before I duck for cover as I am likely to be shot down in flames for the above comment, I would just like to say that I think your mare looks a very nice stamp from that photo. And the 25% Shire blood she has is no different from any other heavy breed used to "beef up" thoroughbreds and steady them up in their head, but I agree with others that as throwbacks DO happen more with cross-breds, sticking to a TB would be a good idea.

I propose Kings Composer.
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_29095.html
He is short coupled, moves & jumps well, I have seen some cracking progeny by him (noteably one out of a TBXWelshD mare, who did very well at the Futurity), has progeny being successful both BE & BSJA, does natural cover and is well within your price range... which means you have a few ££ to play with to say, pay a transporter to take her down to him, if you are not close by.

Good luck, do your homework & ENJOY breeding! ... and let us know who you pick! Very exciting!

ETA - a 13 year old maiden can conceive, carry & foal easily if all her bits are working & a fit mare of any age is better placed to breed than an unfit one.
 
jenki13 said:
I'll check your thread out! But its good to hear, that most think this age is fine :) . Hope you have luck with putting your mare in-foal! :D
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Ok :D let me know if it helps at all! Yes it is, I was unsure at first ... Thanks and same to you-keep us updated if you decide to go ahead with it and who you choose as daddy! :P
 
Thanks Eventrider, I hadn't found that stud & they aren't too far away from me.

Prosoup, looked up primitive proposal after been suggested the louella stud. I am willing to stretch a little bit for a good stallion, as long as they aren't too far away.
Contis was one that was on my shortlist so good to hear as a suggestion.
Had looked at persiflage, but not sure how much the stud fee is? Its also getting to the reaches of travelling.

Ginnie I think he might be a little out of travelling range, newquay is over 4hrs away in the car so not a nice journey for the horse.. & travelling cost would quite possibly outweigh the saving on stud fee :/ .

Thanks for all the posts though :)

Oh also would get a full vet check before putting in foal to check that there's nothing obvious that would cause problems.
 
She looks a grand type and with two intermediate eveinting brothers is well worth breeding from. I agree with the others and go with a full TB. I really wouldn't go WB to be honest as you could end up with a very heavy set animal. A smaller more compact Tb's be perfect I think. It will add a dose of athleticism and lift to her. All the stallions i would suggest are over in Ireland I'm afraid so I can't help you there! Good luck and let us know what you decide :)
 
Personally I would go to a TB with her - this would produce a good eventer type. Agree that Primitve Academy would be a good cross. He's currently at £600 for his fee, but don't forget to have a go at negotiating! Don't AI. Send her to stud for natural covering. Reduces your costs and if you go to a No Foal No Fee stallion then it's even better (as is Primitive Academy). Also I know they don't have a website yet, but Vauterhill Stud in Devon have some nice TB stallions and Graham Heal is exceptionally knowledgeable about sport horse and TB pedigrees and very helpful too. Hope this helps.
 
jenki13 said:
Thanks Eventrider, I hadn't found that stud & they aren't too far away from me.

Prosoup, looked up primitive proposal after been suggested the louella stud. I am willing to stretch a little bit for a good stallion, as long as they aren't too far away.
Contis was one that was on my shortlist so good to hear as a suggestion.
Had looked at persiflage, but not sure how much the stud fee is? Its also getting to the reaches of travelling.

Ginnie I think he might be a little out of travelling range, newquay is over 4hrs away in the car so not a nice journey for the horse.. & travelling cost would quite possibly outweigh the saving on stud fee :/ .

Thanks for all the posts though :)

Oh also would get a full vet check before putting in foal to check that there's nothing obvious that would cause problems.
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Just to let you know as I saw your based in worcestershire, Bazaars stud aren't a million miles away in Stafford, they stand a few stallions, bazaars chief who's pedigree is full of who's who, old time classic names, he's also eventing himself. They also stand his sire Exclusive who really needs no introduction! And also a tb stallion grey ghurkha, I believe they are all natural cover too.
 
jenki13 said:
Prosoup, looked up primitive proposal after been suggested the louella stud. I am willing to stretch a little bit for a good stallion, as long as they aren't too far away.
Contis was one that was on my shortlist so good to hear as a suggestion.
Had looked at persiflage, but not sure how much the stud fee is? Its also getting to the reaches of travelling.
Click to expand...

Contis is a lovely horse. i am afraid i do not know the studfee for Persiflage, i just liked him at a stallion show.

a trakehner or anglo arab would be as suitable as a TB - they are all closed studbooks and so pure breeds, and there would be no danger of a throwback.
 
She looks a lovely mare, and if you're breeding for you then do exactly what you'd like!

I can thoroughly recommend Graham Heal's Vauterhill stud in Devon. Last night my mare had a filly by one of his stallions (very sweet, destined for the racetrack) and am expecting another (full WB by Urkel) imminently. Graham's inexpensive and hugely knowledgeable regarding thoroughbreds. I went to look at his new stallions over Easter and he has a really good selection of TB types. He caters to the local showing and hunting market, as well as the race and point-to-point breeders. He does have a lovely new stallion, Arvico, which hurdled in France and looks a good strong type - I'm thinking of using him on my TB mare to get something either to race or event.

Louella is also good and they're very helpful. Graham Heal stood Primitive Academy last year and neither he nor Primitive Proposal are over-big.

I can't tell you how much fun it is to breed something for yourself - not without much worry and, sometimes, heartache, but it is incredibly fulfilling.
 
Sorry to drag up an old post but thought I'd let you know what I'd decided to do.

Not very exciting unfortunately, as due to me having had my dissertation & exams to do & the fact that I have no idea where I am going to get a job for at least the next year it has been decided that we will wait another year before attempting to put Charl in foal.

Hopefully in this time my employment will be (more) secure, I can sort out a couple of fencing issues & also Charl will be fitter so will be in a better position for breeding. Obviously all the necessary checks will conducted to assess her suitability & then stallions will be researched in to more depth.

The stallions / studs that I am currently thinking of looking are Primitive proposal (will look at primitive academy aswell), contis, bazaars stud & possibly a couple of the welton stallions.
 
her age for a first foal is fine.

i would look at anglo-arabs for her, arab blood is very potent so is good tb, sounds like an eventer of the future in the pipeline.

shire crosses can reach high levels of dressage with the right riders.

don't be put off, we had a shire cross (50 per cent) he was reserve champ at royal inter as a working cob, as a youngster he was very, very active and well balanced
 
Your post and your reply explain that you are very wise person and you gave him a rational advice.I entirely agree with you that why do he want to breed in this circumstances.
 
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