Fixing terrible ground manners in new horse

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Field04

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I have a new horse, she is quite old so am slightly worried that the ground manners are going to be very difficult to change. Her old owner, it turns out used to give her treats for what I would call bad behaviour. Barging, scraping hoof on the ground and using you as a scratching post.

So when I get her in from the field we have about a 500 metre walk down an alley lined with grass. Her field does not have a lot of grass left so can imagine she would love to eat this grass. We stop for a bit of a graze, but then if I want to walk on she will run past me dragging me along to get to the next bit. Then barge me out of the way. Unfortunately she is on livery, and they do not want to put any hay in the fields yet. So on one hand I feel that she may geniuenly be hungry, but on the other hand she should respect my space. She is also slightly overweight so do need to be careful about what she eats anyway.

Then when she is tied up, she tries squash me against the wall. But the worst is putting the bridle on as she tries to pull free and shakes her head repeatedly so I can;t do it up.

However, in the school she is well behaved. And on hacks we have only had one big napping moment, but otherwise small naps (normal new horse kind of stuff). However the big nap was a bit scary, but thats another story.

I think the napping is also to do with her confidence wiht me and her obvious lack of respect. I am thinking of taking her out of livery and bringing her home. I have a field, but hacking is difficult as we are on a main road wiht lots of lorries and not sure we are ready for that. However, at home we could do more work on the ground, bonding and schooling. Is it bad to leave hacking out of the equation for while, just to get to know each other? Am thinking of having her home during July and August.

Am also looking into getting a rope halter, just for ground work to learn pressure and release. Any other good ground work exercises and ways to retrain these bad habits. At the moment my vocab mainly includes the word no withher and pushingher head away and backing up!! It does get very stressful though!

Sorry its so long and any helpful advice would be great.
 
Don't use a headcollar - use something like a controller or even a bridle to bring her in.

As for the tying up issues, a poke in the side should sort that one out pretty quickly.

However, if the grazing is lacking, and she's not in overnight for hay - then I suspect hunger will always get the better of her (understandably). And certainly if your grazing has not picked up by now, I would say it's unlikely to.
 
amymay said:
Don't use a headcollar - use something like a controller or even a bridle to bring her in.

As for the tying up issues, a poke in the side should sort that one out pretty quickly.

However, if the grazing is lacking, and she's not in overnight for hay - then I suspect hunger will always get the better of her (understandably). And certainly if your grazing has not picked up by now, I would say it's unlikely to.
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The problem is the grass has already all gone in her paddock. Is a controller, the same as a rope halter?
 
Bring in a bridle and a use a lunge line .
Poke her in ribs if she has the cheek to squash you don't take any cheek.
Be firm praise correct behaviour be as black and white as you can and I would cut out treats completly apart from perhaps one for being caught.
Hack out in company for a little while till you have got it together.
Good luck with it all .
 
Goldenstar said:
I always lead brats that I have bought that don't know their manners in a bridle stallion chain and a lunge line they are polite people in no time.
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That works for you - which is great.

It's not something I would do or advise, however, as the implications for something going wrong is just too great - in my books.
 
Don't let her stop to eat the grass, because it then becomes confusing for her. Either she is allowed to eat it or she isn't. So if u don't want her dragging you then don't stop at any point and let her have some. Agree with a controller or bridle. If she trys to sqaush you give her a sharp jab in the side with a quick sharp "ah ah" praise her lots when she is doing the correct thing.
 
I have had success with a Be Nice halter to stop my (very strong) cob dragging me to grass. Irrespective of whether she is hungry, she does need to be under control on the walk between field and stable, for your safety. You are giving her slightly mixed messages at the moment - sometimes it's OK to grab some grass, sometimes it's not...you need to be consistent.

If you can get her to listen to 'back', 'over' etc, this should help with her walking all over you. I know this isn't for everyone, but if my pony barges/pushes me, and doesn't instantly move back when asked, I pinch his chest hard until he takes a step back. At the end of the day, it's half a ton of horse and it needs to respect your space. Try to avoid letting her make a move that you don't ask for, if she moves towards you, move her back (as amymay says, a prod in the side). Can you tie her up a bit shorter so she can't fling her head around.

I'm sure there's no reason why you can't improve her ground manners - just be firm and consistent.
 
Also...try to take some deep breaths. I read somewhere that a horse will tell another horse in the field off for bad behaviour but it won't hold a grudge - it just tells the other horse off and moves on. Correct her, take a deep breath, let it go, and carry on with what you were doing - try not to let the stress build up.
 
How long have you had her?

It is quite normal for horses to be silly/naughty when they first move to a new home.

Lead her in a rope halter, take a short whip with you and hold it up in front of her face should she try to run past you, dont be afraid to thunk her one on the front of her face, you will probebly only need to do it once - it makes a great noise!

Do some work on the ground with moving over, stepping back and stepping forward on command.

She'll soon settle.
 
So what is she eating? If she has no grass in the field and your not allowed to out hay out. Then she comes in and has no hay?
 
bex1984 said:
Also...try to take some deep breaths. I read somewhere that a horse will tell another horse in the field off for bad behaviour but it won't hold a grudge - it just tells the other horse off and moves on. Correct her, take a deep breath, let it go, and carry on with what you were doing - try not to let the stress build up.
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Aggree with this don't bulld this into a big issue just be firm and quick to praise.
 
I wouldn't say that The GreyDonk had particularly bad manners when he came to us, but he certainly tested the boundaries (because that's the sort of horse he is).

I think the first thing you need to do is sort out in your own mind what's acceptable and what's not - and have a strategy for dealing with each "behaviour." Also, find out what motivates your horse - is she a quick learner, does she genuinely want to please, is she playful? All of those things will, IMHO, help guide you to the right strategies for dealing with her naughtiness.

Re the towing you to grass . . . others are right, don't graze her in hand at all . . . not ever. I think you need to be pretty black and white on this one. It isn't fair to her for it to be acceptable to have a munch while being lead some of the time, but unacceptable at other times. When taking her out to the field, whether you lead her in a rope headcollar or a bridle, don't dawdle - be purposeful, keep her head up and march - don't give her the time or the opportunity to take matters into her own hands. If she goes to put her head down, give her a reminder (for Kal it's now just a shake of the leadrope and a verbal cue) and immediately release . . . she will eventually get the message and you'll find leading her easier. If she's hungry, can you not make sure she's got something in her belly before you take her out? A small haynet or small amount of hard feed?

Re the squishing you - I find an elbow to the ribs works really well. Ditto spending lots of time working on the ground on "over" and "back." When we first bought Kal, he would rush to his stable door and pretty much flatten you . . . now I just have to put my hands up and approach the door and he steps back for me.

Also sounds like the mare spends a fair amount of time moving YOUR feet rather than obeying any instructions you may be giving her to move hers. You need to address this pronto. Outsmart her. Don't put herself in too many positions where she can essentially force you to get out of her way by barging into you - Kal used to do this by either swinging his back end into you while tied up on the yard, or nudging you off your feet with his head. I simply stopped standing within nudging range and taught him "back" . . . and to solve the swinging quarters issue, I simply backed him up every single time he did it. Every. Single. Time. This or employed something pointy - usually my elbow, once or twice the end of a broom - strategically placed so that when he ran into it it surprised him into stopping. Essentially, I had the last word. He got the message.

Kal does paw the ground if tied up for too long . . . but he's usually trying to tell me something (most often, "I need a wee") and as battles go, it's one I choose not to choose (if that makes sense). My strategy for this one is a) to not leave him tied up for too long; and b) if I have had to leave him for a while, recognize that he probably has a reason (i.e., he wants to have a wee) and put him in his box or turn him so that he can.

Also, I would cut out all treats fed by hand. Kal gets an occasional treat by hand these days, and by occasional I mean once or twice a month. At the moment, because he's on boxrest with suspected laminitis, I am offering him the odd handful of goosegrass/cleavers and cow parsley . . . but if he gets treats at all they're in his treatball.

P
 
Can you do some groundwork in the field before bringing her in?
I once spent 2 hours standing with a bargy youngster in the field. He had to stand where I had chosen. Keep still and wait for further instructions. He stood for 2 minutes then went to move,was corrected,replaced and so on. He tried all his tricks,flinging the head around,pawing,exploding,rearing but each time he was quickly corrected(I had a 12ft line and control headcollar and was wearing gloves and hat!)I managed to remain calm and he eventually got the idea that it was much easier to be quiet and obedient. When it came to the rest of the groundwork,like walking alongside at MY chosen pace,stopping and paying attention to me,he only needed telling the once if he got things wrong!So that 2 hours in the field was time well spent IMO.
When it comes to being squashed I would suggest using a hoofpick for the poke. Hands tend not to be decisive enough and one can end up pushing which causes further squashing.
Does your bridle fit? Is she happy with the bit? Teeth ok?She is probably just being bolshy and has been allowed to get away with the behaviour,but she could be uncomfortable.
Good luck. You are absolutely right that a lack of respect and trust on the grond will soon show up under saddle.
 
Take heart, bad manners even in mature horses can be improved considerably. In my opinion the key is clear, consistent boundaries.

Totally agree at the idea of using a chain or Be Nice type halter to give you some leverage with the snacking behaviour. While that is an issue I wouldn't allow grazing in hand at any point during the trip from field to yard and back again - it just risks confusion. Moving over on you - an immediate, loud 'No!' and a jab in the ribs again every single time it starts.

A new horse always pushes the boundaries to find out where they are, this horse has the added issue of having been rewarded for inappropriate behaviour.

While I wouldn't advocate starving a horse, I wouldn't expect any horse of mine to be dragging me to grass even if it was half dead from hunger. It may seem mean, but my horses are well-mannered and have security in understanding what is expected of them.
 
amymay said:
Well I suspect feeding the horse may make a world of difference to her behaviour then........:o
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I know, and I am actually quite stressed about it. I pay for field livery, but this should include hay. However, they do not want to use the hay yet! I was bringing her in for a hay net, to not stress out the other hungry ponies. But they actually moved the hay that was left in the store away so I can't use it!!!!! I can bring her back to mine at the end of the month, where she will also have hay!!
 
LaurenBay said:
So what is she eating? If she has no grass in the field and your not allowed to out hay out. Then she comes in and has no hay?
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Yep, thats about it! Its why its really difficult to deal with, as you can;t really blame her for wanting to eat the grass. I have replied to another post about the hay situation, its a nightmare really.
 
What am I missing why can't she have hay when you bring her in.
If she's really hungary it will affect her manners.
 
Field04 said:
Yep, thats about it! Its why its really difficult to deal with, as you can;t really blame her for wanting to eat the grass. I have replied to another post about the hay situation, its a nightmare really.
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Why can't you just go and buy a couple of bales to tide you over until you move her?
 
Goldenstar said:
What am I missing why can't she have hay when you bring her in.
If she's really hungary it will affect her manners.
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The YO is not giving hay to any horses yet. And now has even taken the remaining hay off the yard!!!! She will only feed the hay once the ground is completely dried up! Anyway she is only there until the end of the month and I will bring her home, where she can have hay to her hearts content!!
 
Just retread the thread ,would buy some HiFI lite molasses free or something similar and bring her in for a few kilos of that every day.
Sounds like a strange livery yard good job you are moving soon.
 
ihatework said:
Why can't you just go and buy a couple of bales to tide you over until you move her?
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I've got an order being delivered but not unitl the end of the month. However, I am going to see if I can get some of the small bales now to tide her over. Really peed off now having looked at it in black and white, and realising that I am not being unreasonable to want her to be fed hay! Especially as I am paying for it. God my YO is a tight arse!
 
amymay said:
Not really, you just speak to the YO's about your horse needing hay. If they are not going to provide it - go and buy some.

I have, and they won't give any yet. You must not of read the previous post where I said I would go and get some small bales while waiting for my delivery.

How much do you pay in livery?
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Cheeky.... enough, its not DIY. Yes I know YOs have costs etc, and I'm not saying I want this and that for pennies. I am only saying I would like her to have hay, when there is no grass left in her paddock. Anyway, back to the ground manners.... I have looked at the link to the controller and it looks good, am going to order one so thanks for that tip.
 
Anyway, back to the ground manners
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If the horse is hungry, it doesn't matter what you do - her ground manners will remain poor (and no wonder).

And I wasn't being cheeky, merely curious. I'm glad you're sorting her out with hay now though, as this will make all the difference. It will cost you extra, obviously esp. with bedding etc. But at least your horse will now be fed adequately, and you will reap the rewards by her starting to behave better for you.
 
amymay said:
If the horse is hungry, it doesn't matter what you do - her ground manners will remain poor (and no wonder).

And I wasn't being cheeky, merely curious. I'm glad you're sorting her out with hay now though, as this will make all the difference. It will cost you extra, obviously esp. with bedding etc. But at least your horse will now be fed adequately, and you will reap the rewards by her starting to behave better for you.
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I like your posts, they make me laugh (not in a bad way!!) you are very blunt and to the point, there's no messing about with you.:)
 
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