Fizzy TB Feeding Issues

[Double JD]

I would really appreciate any advise you have please.
Have owned my TB for 12 weeks or so now, he was not in work at all and fed Speedibeet & chaff twice a day but was underweight with no condition.
Since buying him and increasing his work he was on A&P Calm & Condition with Dengie alfa a oil but quickly became incredibly strong, stroppy, jumpy and excitable.
After advise from Baileys they recommended No 21 with fibrebeet but wowzers..... not even a week into his new feed and this boy is on fire!!!! He seems to have lost the ability to walk and just wants to go 100mph everywhere! Not enjoyable at all.
I am going to go back to basics and start all over again but some recommendations would be much appreciated.
He is out 24/7 and currently in very good condition so hoping to keep his weight on. Ad lib hay available which is amazing quality as not much grazing left. Rugged up adequately.
I am wanting to include some micronised linseed as have read this is really beneficial to them especially through these colder months.
Thinking of going back to speedibeet and not fibrebeet, but which chaff would be best as would really like my rideable boy back asap ?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I don't have TB horses but I have Arabs and they are both hot bloods so I suppose they can react very similarly to feed.

I have found I can't feed any thing with molasses, alfalfa, or high starch luckily mine are good doers, but when one of mine was young I struggled to keep weight on him, I fed him as much hay as he would eat he got hay in his field in winter, I find grass chaff is ok unmolassed sugar beet and micronised linseed works well, his also had Copra and pink mash in the past and none of those made him silly.

I find any sort of conditioning nuts and mixes send him nuts so does alfalfa and I steer clear of soya oil as well, I tend to stick to a basic straight diet and anything else he needs added I buy in a powder form rather than a feed that contains it so I can control the feed amount.

I know a lot of people feed grass nuts and find them good for weight gain although I have never tried them they might be worth a try.

 

[Double JD]

I don't have TB horses but I have Arabs and they are both hot bloods so I suppose they can react very similarly to feed.

I have found I can't feed any thing with molasses, alfalfa, or high starch luckily mine are good doers, but when one of mine was young I struggled to keep weight on him, I fed him as much hay as he would eat he got hay in his field in winter, I find grass chaff is ok unmolassed sugar beet and micronised linseed works well, his also had Copra and pink mash in the past and none of those made him silly.

I find any sort of conditioning nuts and mixes send him nuts so does alfalfa and I steer clear of soya oil as well, I tend to stick to a basic straight diet and anything else he needs added I buy in a powder form rather than a feed that contains it so I can control the feed amount.

I know a lot of people feed grass nuts and find them good for weight gain although I have never tried them they might be worth a try.

Thank you
I am steering towards unmolassed chaff but as he is a TB ex racer I also need to consider an ulcer friendly option. He doesn’t have any but being aware and preventing these is really important.
As he was originally on speedibeet originally I am thinking this is a good option and will definitely be including micronised linseed.
Would really like to have him safe and rideable again because at the moment he is like a ticking time bomb.

 

[windand rain]

Get him off alfalfa and feed grassnuts and grass chaff, Emerald green are free from any chemicals in production. Then add in linseed very slowly to see if it affects his temperament. He can have quite a lot eventually. Soak the grassnuts for 10 minutes or so to prevent bolting and choking. I have never had one do it with soaked ones

 

[AmyMay]

Get him off alfalfa and feed grassnuts and grass chaff, Emerald green are free from any chemicals in production. Then add in linseed very slowly to see if it affects his temperament. He can have quite a lot eventually. Soak the grassnuts for 10 minutes or so to prevent bolting and choking. I have never had one do it with soaked ones

I absolutely agree.

 

[Double JD]

Get him off alfalfa and feed grassnuts and grass chaff, Emerald green are free from any chemicals in production. Then add in linseed very slowly to see if it affects his temperament. He can have quite a lot eventually. Soak the grassnuts for 10 minutes or so to prevent bolting and choking. I have never had one do it with soaked ones

Would you recommend Dengie Meadow Grass?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thank you
I am steering towards unmolassed chaff but as he is a TB ex racer I also need to consider an ulcer friendly option. He doesn’t have any but being aware and preventing these is really important.
As he was originally on speedibeet originally I am thinking this is a good option and will definitely be including micronised linseed.
Would really like to have him safe and rideable again because at the moment he is like a ticking time bomb.

I normally feed the emerald grass tastic or the dengie plain grass chaff not the one with added oil and mint as I am sure it's soya oil. As he gains condition he will have more energy and probably be hotter to ride you could try some magnesium mine have it through periods of the year, it's relatively cheap and some grazing lacks it so it could help.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I feed the pure grass as it has nothing added the meadow grass has oil in it.

 

[TPO]

Keyflow pink mash made the biggest difference and improvement to my exracer.

He is generally fed a base of:
Pink mash
Micronised linseed
Unmolassed chaff (dengie meadow grass)
Salt
Progressive earth pro balance (vit/min balancer)
Science Supplements Gastrokind (treated as an ulcer horse and this supp works best for him).

In winter/when needing condition grass nuts are added.

However last winter he started to drop a bit of condition and when I upped the quantities of his feed it became too much even split over 3 feeds. He's not a greedy horse and buckets full of grass nuts put him off.

On advice from here I tried Baileys no 21 Ease & Excel mix. He was getting less than half the recommended amount alongside his normal quantities of the above. He loved the feed (who wouldnt, it smells amazing) and it had no detrimental affect on his behaviour or hooves (he's barefoot).

This winter I've started him on E& E, again at less than half the RDA and he's looking great.

I'm also experimenting with chaff and have swapped him and another over to Dengie Healthy Tummy. Neither have any known issues with alfa and so far so good. Again they are getting much less than the recommended amounts and looking great on it.

However my last ex racer didn't tolerate alfa too well and on one occasion came out in a (protein) rash

A lot of it is trial and error. If I up this TBs linseed too much he gets wild but hes been fine on the mix

 

[AmyMay]

Do you think the reason for keeping him ‘skinny’ could be that he became too ‘hot’ when in condition?

 

[Double JD]

Keyflow pink mash made the biggest difference and improvement to my exracer.

He is generally fed a base of:
Pink mash
Micronised linseed
Unmolassed chaff (dengie meadow grass)
Salt
Progressive earth pro balance (vit/min balancer)
Science Supplements Gastrokind (treated as an ulcer horse and this supp works best for him).

In winter/when needing condition grass nuts are added.

However last winter he started to drop a bit of condition and when I upped the quantities of his feed it became too much even split over 3 feeds. He's not a greedy horse and buckets full of grass nuts put him off.

On advice from here I tried Baileys no 21 Ease & Excel mix. He was getting less than half the recommended amount alongside his normal quantities of the above. He loved the feed (who wouldnt, it smells amazing) and it had no detrimental affect on his behaviour or hooves (he's barefoot).

This winter I've started him on E& E, again at less than half the RDA and he's looking great.

I'm also experimenting with chaff and have swapped him and another over to Dengie Healthy Tummy. Neither have any known issues with alfa and so far so good. Again they are getting much less than the recommended amounts and looking great on it.

However my last ex racer didn't tolerate alfa too well and on one occasion came out in a (protein) rash

A lot of it is trial and error. If I up this TBs linseed too much he gets wild but hes been fine on the mix

Thank you!
My head is spinning trying to get it right for him. He’s such a lovely boy but just wild to ride all of a sudden and it’s in sync with the change in feed!

 

[TPO]

Thank you!
My head is spinning trying to get it right for him. He’s such a lovely boy but just wild to ride all of a sudden and it’s in sync with the change in feed!

He is my third TB ex racer, I've also had an arab ex racer and TB that was bred as a sports horse/nothing to do with racing over the past 16yrs. There has been a LOT of trial and error!

Over all these years Pink Mash really has been the best "new" feed IMO. I've fed it to everything and they've all done well on it.

Its lower calories than speedibeet and after my first couple of bags I did swap current ex racer back to speedibeet and he just didnt look as good on it. I think (my opinion not based on any science!) that because pink mash helps the hind gut horses are able to absorb more of the goodness from other feeds too.

Personally I'd make that the base of my diet plan.

I love linseed or if they need condition Copra/Coolstance. Its dried coconut meal that you dampen/soak into a mash. It's like brown grit but turns into the most amazing smelling feed. I know others who have horses that woulsnt eat it but I've never met anything that hasnt likes the bucket clean. Their website is really informative too.

Personally I'd avoid their Powerstance as it is really high protein.

I've used Dengie Meadow Chaff for years and really rate it. I'm only trying Healthy Tummy because I'm a marketer's dream and paranoid about ex racers gut health. So figured I'd give it a go and ao far so good.

My linseed is usually Charnwood but I sent dad to collect a bag from me and he came back with a British horse feeds bag of it (makers of speedibeet). I checked their website, after frantic messages to an experienced friend to find out if it was the same as "normal" micronised linseed (it is). I then googled the website and there are lots of details on it. It was £22 for a 20kg bag and that lasts me forever.

Like I said TB back on E&E mix. He gets a third of a Stubbs scoop so well under RDA but hes thriving on it and no @#$€ behaviour from him unlike when linseed is increased to thr quantity needed to be conditioning.

 

[brighteyes]

Can't you just stuff him with hay?

 

[ycbm]

Be careful with linseed. I have one who gets the mad light in his eyes on alfalfa and on linseed. I feed him grass nuts.

 

[Double JD]

Do you think the reason for keeping him ‘skinny’ could be that he became too ‘hot’ when in condition?

No, he came off the track due to being too slow however his feet were in the worse condition ever with many farriers refusing to touch him. He was constantly lame so all in all spent around 2 1/2 years in the field with another horse who stole his every feeds hence why he was so skinny. Since owning him we have already made huge improvements with his feet and his condition is amazing (he no longer looks like a rescue horse bless him)

 

[brighteyes]

Be careful with linseed. I have one who gets the mad light in his eyes on alfalfa and linseed. I feed him grass nuts.

You sure that's not the alfalfa?

 

[Double JD]

He is my third TB ex racer, I've also had an arab ex racer and TB that was bred as a sports horse/nothing to do with racing over the past 16yrs. There has been a LOT of trial and error!

Over all these years Pink Mash really has been the best "new" feed IMO. I've fed it to everything and they've all done well on it.

Its lower calories than speedibeet and after my first couple of bags I did swap current ex racer back to speedibeet and he just didnt look as good on it. I think (my opinion not based on any science!) that because pink mash helps the hind gut horses are able to absorb more of the goodness from other feeds too.

Personally I'd make that the base of my diet plan.

I love linseed or if they need condition Copra/Coolstance. Its dried coconut meal that you dampen/soak into a mash. It's like brown grit but turns into the most amazing smelling feed. I know others who have horses that woulsnt eat it but I've never met anything that hasnt likes the bucket clean. Their website is really informative too.

Personally I'd avoid their Powerstance as it is really high protein.

I've used Dengie Meadow Chaff for years and really rate it. I'm only trying Healthy Tummy because I'm a marketer's dream and paranoid about ex racers gut health. So figured I'd give it a go and ao far so good.

My linseed is usually Charnwood but I sent dad to collect a bag from me and he came back with a British horse feeds bag of it (makers of speedibeet). I checked their website, after frantic messages to an experienced friend to find out if it was the same as "normal" micronised linseed (it is). I then googled the website and there are lots of details on it. It was £22 for a 20kg bag and that lasts me forever.

Like I said TB back on E&E mix. He gets a third of a Stubbs scoop so well under RDA but hes thriving on it and no @#$€ behaviour from him unlike when linseed is increased to thr quantity needed to be conditioning.

He is currently on the E&E alongside fibrebeet, under the RDA as he’s only in light to moderate work due to the time of year and lack of an arena to use. I just don’t know which of them has caused the erratic behaviour or if it is a combination of the two??
Only option is to start from scratch and settle him back down.

 

[TPO]

Only option is to start from scratch and settle him back down.

Sounds like a good plan ?

You've created the ultimate forum sin by posted about a new horse without pictures ?

 

[Double JD]

Sounds like a good plan ?

You've created the ultimate forum sin by posted about a new horse without pictures ?

Ooops ?
I’ll pop him on now ?

 

[Double JD]

 

[ycbm]

You sure that's not the alfalfa?

Yup. Linseed was given in a feed with no alfalfa. He also reacts to cereals, but not as badly.

 

[TPO]

Aww a ginger boy. Hes lovely ?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I feed my tb ex racer ad lib hay. Grass nuts, honeychop lite and healthy , baileys stud balancer and a gut balancer. He is 14 and looks fabulous. His diet is ulcer friendly.

 

[Scarlett]

There's definitely something in the air at the moment - my 3 exracers are all absolutely full of it and they have had no changes to feed or routine!

Can only echo what @TPO said. I've been feeding my guys Pink Mash since it came out 4-5 years ago and I've never been anything but happy. I have a big 17h TB who only gets Pink Mash and meadow grass chaff with half a cup of linseed and is looking fantastic, a 23yo who gets the same but a full cup of Linseed. Both working 3-4 days a week too. Pink Mash gets the gut healthy, and that means they get the most out if everything else they eat.
One of mine gets Pink Mash and Ease & Excel, on recommendation from here, as he's 5, huge and still growing and came from racing this year. He's doing brilliantly on it and it hasn't affected his temperament at all. I also give it to my homebred 5/8 TB and I'm seeing good results, and she is calmer too.
Something I can't feed to a couple of them is beet of any sort, or alfalfa. So fibrebeet would be out.
I would swap to Pink Mash, keep feeding the E&E and a decent balancer and get as much hay into your horse as you can. I also wouldn't rule out a bit of winter silliness and maybe lunge a bit before you get on (or your groundwork of choice) and get the legs off him. I often do this in winter before getting on. Tbs need to move their legs so standing in a field (they tend to move less in winter if less grass and more mud) so it's best to give them that opportunity when you can.

 

[Double JD]

There's definitely something in the air at the moment - my 3 exracers are all absolutely full of it and they have had no changes to feed or routine!

Can only echo what @TPO said. I've been feeding my guys Pink Mash since it came out 4-5 years ago and I've never been anything but happy. I have a big 17h TB who only gets Pink Mash and meadow grass chaff with half a cup of linseed and is looking fantastic, a 23yo who gets the same but a full cup of Linseed. Both working 3-4 days a week too. Pink Mash gets the gut healthy, and that means they get the most out if everything else they eat.
One of mine gets Pink Mash and Ease & Excel, on recommendation from here, as he's 5, huge and still growing and came from racing this year. He's doing brilliantly on it and it hasn't affected his temperament at all. I also give it to my homebred 5/8 TB and I'm seeing good results, and she is calmer too.
Something I can't feed to a couple of them is beet of any sort, or alfalfa. So fibrebeet would be out.
I would swap to Pink Mash, keep feeding the E&E and a decent balancer and get as much hay into your horse as you can. I also wouldn't rule out a bit of winter silliness and maybe lunge a bit before you get on (or your groundwork of choice) and get the legs off him. I often do this in winter before getting on. Tbs need to move their legs so standing in a field (they tend to move less in winter if less grass and more mud) so it's best to give them that opportunity when you can.

Thank you so much!!!
I am going to buy some pink mash today and some micronised linseed. Will continue with the E&E and see if dropping the fibrebeet makes any difference ??He has under the RDA of E&E as he’s not currently in high level of work just wouldn’t want him to drop any weight as we have worked so hard to get him looking well. Hay is on tap for him 24/7.
He also has a scoop of VIP Hoof Builder which has done wonders for his feet. First time in his life his feet no longer hurt him! And I may, from recommendation of a friend add some Boswellia??

 

[Double JD]

Aww a ginger boy. Hes lovely ?

He really is! Hopefully once I get his feed balance right he will relax again. He was so calm and loving when I met him but now he is so grumpy with bad attitude it’s difficult to do simple things like groom him.
Feel terribly guilty, I tried to do the best by him by giving him lovely food but instead made his head rage ?‍

 

[windand rain]

My only other feeling is is he getting plenty turnout. Might not be the food if he is in a lot it might be he isnt getting the level of exercise he is used to and has no other way of burning it off. All my off track tb were turned out from 7 am to 7pm in winter and 24/7 in summer. The broodmares were out 24/7 unrugged all year sorry just read he is out 24/7 so that wont be the case

 

[Scarlett]

Thank you so much!!!
I am going to buy some pink mash today and some micronised linseed. Will continue with the E&E and see if dropping the fibrebeet makes any difference ??He has under the RDA of E&E as he’s not currently in high level of work just wouldn’t want him to drop any weight as we have worked so hard to get him looking well. Hay is on tap for him 24/7.
He also has a scoop of VIP Hoof Builder which has done wonders for his feet. First time in his life his feet no longer hurt him! And I may, from recommendation of a friend add some Boswellia??

Mine is only getting 500g of Pink Mash and a scoop of Ease and Excel once a day. I suspected gut problems but that has all settled down now.

Sometimes it just takes time for them to settle in

 

[Double JD]

My only other feeling is is he getting plenty turnout. Might not be the food if he is in a lot it might be he isnt getting the level of exercise he is used to and has no other way of burning it off. All my off track tb were turned out from 7 am to 7pm in winter and 24/7 in summer. The broodmares were out 24/7 unrugged all year sorry just read he is out 24/7 so that wont be the case

He is back out 24/7 now. I was bringing him in just for night times and we had really bad rain here and the field was terribly muddy, he was in from 6pm till 7am, but every morning when turning him out it was like he had turned into a kite on the end of the lead rope ? so have now gone back to 24/7 turnout.

 

[Double JD]

Good evening all, I hope everyone has been coping okay with the snow/ice and minus temperatures!!!
Just an update on my post, I have only just managed to source a bag of pink mash as not many places stock it near me and the one closest has only just today received their delivery so collecting my bag tomorrow. Since posting I have had my boy on Dengie Molasses Free & quick soak beet- back to basics. Behaviour not much better tbh but have heard beet can cause fizziness!! My question is do you think the Dengie I am using will be a good addition to pink mash? Also going to start on micronised linseed once we begin the pink mash. Hopefully this combo will suit him better and keep him looking healthy inside and out ? Decided to eliminate the E&E and go back to basics due to his behaviour and thanks to the weather riding has been near impossible at the moment.