Fizzy Welsh - what can I feed

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Hayms80

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Hi, I have a welsh b 13h. Grass for 7 hours and soaked hay for the evening with half dry hay.

The vet has told me that he needs the full amount of balancer to gain condition. However every time I try a balancer he becomes fizzy and hot headed and more anxious. He is a good doer but isnt over weight at the moment, but all the balancers I’ve tried make him bloated, I’ve tried powdered ones too. He is lacking in condition and topline. He has also lost muscle and weight along his chest despite the correct exercises we are doing. His coat is looking rather dull aswell.


I am now thinking other ways to gain condition but not to sure where to start. Can anyone help ?
The things I’ve tried are

Topspec lite
Equinins
Spillers
Speedi beat
Micronised linseed - sent him loopy

The vet told me that oils should not fizz him up, but they do. He looked frazzled when I tried him on some linseed.

So I have resorted that maybe he just does not need a hard feed and I should concentrate in adding natural as possible to help. I have been looking at the simply systems haycare and wondered if that is worth a try.

any advice would be really appreciated.
 
Simply systems hay care is a hay replacer. It's just grass with no vits and minerals added so I don't think that will do anything for you.

Most pelleted balancers will have soya, alfalfa, molasses which (anecdotally) some horses will be sensitive to, so that could be an issue. A powder balancer shouldn't be making him bloated, that is fairly concerning, but could be related to what it is mixed into.

Honestly a very stressy, anxious horse with a dull coat and losing condition... has he been scoped for ulcers? This might not be a feed problem.
 
I second the opinion above, every horse I've known with a dull coat and a loss of condition when scoped has shown ulcers. Might be worth trying some omeprazole and/or sulcafrate?
Good top line and condition also comes from work and the right work, eg lots of hillwork, poles etc anything that engages core and makes him lift his midsection.

Re; balancer I rate forageplus powdered balancer and also 365
 
I think Cushings test is free this time of year too, unless things have changed.

How long have you kept him on a balancer before taking him off again? Just wondering if initial fizziness could be due to him feeling fit and well again. It might take a while for him to adjust to his new found energy levels before he dials it down a bit (speaking from personal experience, not horse related experience!)
 
smolmaus said:
Simply systems hay care is a hay replacer. It's just grass with no vits and minerals added so I don't think that will do anything for you.

Most pelleted balancers will have soya, alfalfa, molasses which (anecdotally) some horses will be sensitive to, so that could be an issue. A powder balancer shouldn't be making him bloated, that is fairly concerning, but could be related to what it is mixed into.

Honestly a very stressy, anxious horse with a dull coat and losing condition... has he been scoped for ulcers? This might not be a feed problem.
Click to expand...
Thank you everyone for your replies. The powder balancer didn’t make him
Bloated just sent him loopy. It had a high oil content so I put it down to that. Thank you il look into the products everyone suggested. Never thought of ulcers before, however the change only happens when a feed is introduce so I am baffled.

Thanks
 
smolmaus said:
Simply systems hay care is a hay replacer. It's just grass with no vits and minerals added so I don't think that will do anything for you.

Most pelleted balancers will have soya, alfalfa, molasses which (anecdotally) some horses will be sensitive to, so that could be an issue. A powder balancer shouldn't be making him bloated, that is fairly concerning, but could be related to what it is mixed into.

Honestly a very stressy, anxious horse with a dull coat and losing condition... has he been scoped for ulcers? This might not be a feed problem.
Click to expand...
I would also wonder whether there isn’t something underlying.
A healthy section B, being fed ad lib, decent quality hay shouldn’t be dropping condition as you describe, and he doesn’t sound very settled at all.
Are you sure he is actually receiving sufficient forage: grass and hay? As in quantity?obviously be careful with fresh grass, but as much hay as he’ll eat.
Is he on his own and stressing? Or could he be bullied by others? Can he relax and feel secure in his stable, or is there lots always going on, an active nighttime rat population, such things which might be unsettling him? Horses can certainly worry off condition, when there’s stuff worrying them!
Kind of think the vet should have suggested or already checked these, but:
Teeth - can he comfortably grind and get benefit from his food?
Parasites - are you and the vet confident he hasn’t a problem population?
Ulcers - often cause similar issues - worth scoping?
Blood test - to show up deficiencies or unsuspected issues?
‘Pure’ feeds do a soya and alfalfa free balancer, pellets, bit of warm water and salt to make them soggy - I do use this with Welsh Ds, inclined to be very fizzy on occasion!
I agree that less hard feed and far more forage is generally the best way to go with native breeds, but you need to be sure that whatever you are feeding him - he can get full advantage from it. Good luck!
 
Thank you very much everyone. He is very settled in his field with his best mate. His stable is outside and tends to be relatively quiet with a few people and horses walking by. I think you are probably right and he is feeling crap most of the time. I tend to leave him on the balancers for approx a month but always remove them. Il look into forage, I’ve never heard of them before. The hay we have in is first cut very green and dusty. That’s why I am soaking half. I could add in another soaked so he isn’t running out of hay. He currently has 1.5 percent of his body weight but I may need to increase this. When he is off all his balancers he shrinks, when he is on them he bloats. He didnt bloat with the powder one but sent him loopy. I know he runs out of hay around midnight so he is ready for his morning haynet at 6am. So maybe that’s my starting point.

He did have an exceptionally high worm count last year of 2000 so he is on a worming programme. I will test him again, he isn’t due yet but will do this now.

Can anyone think of a safe tummy filler I could give him ?


Thank you
 
Hayms80 said:
Thank you very much everyone. He is very settled in his field with his best mate. His stable is outside and tends to be relatively quiet with a few people and horses walking by. I think you are probably right and he is feeling crap most of the time. I tend to leave him on the balancers for approx a month but always remove them. Il look into forage, I’ve never heard of them before. The hay we have in is first cut very green and dusty. That’s why I am soaking half. I could add in another soaked so he isn’t running out of hay. He currently has 1.5 percent of his body weight but I may need to increase this. When he is off all his balancers he shrinks, when he is on them he bloats. He didnt bloat with the powder one but sent him loopy. I know he runs out of hay around midnight so he is ready for his morning haynet at 6am. So maybe that’s my starting point.

He did have an exceptionally high worm count last year of 2000 so he is on a worming programme. I will test him again, he isn’t due yet but will do this now.

Can anyone think of a safe tummy filler I could give him ?


Thank you
Click to expand...
‘Forage’, as in this means hay, grass, haylage, straw - as in, these are all bulking,tummy fillers (some more suitable than others) - please make certain that your pony is simply getting enough to keep full and preserve condition.

Forage Plus are a private company that produce ranges of supplements, balancers etc, based on principles that forage should be the basis for all good feeding. Their products are well researched, not particularly cheap, and some horses find them unpalatable - probably because they don’t add all the extra sugars that are often present in many other companies’ feedstuffs!

Definitely get onto the worming, never mind whether he is ‘due’ or not, and never under dose for parasites. 2000 is colossal, hopefully not done lasting damage.

First cut hay this year was generally got while dry, so I’m surprised yours is dusty, obviously you don’t want to make him cough, but don’t want to leach all goodness out with prolonged soaking, either.
If you have a lidded container, could try putting the hay bag in, couple of kettles of boiling, give it 10 mins for some steam to ‘damp’ things.
Or could buy a wallpaper steamer, sort out a hole and drainage into a dustbin / wheeliebin, and regularly steam his hay for longer
. Just ensure he is getting plenty of it!
Again, forget the 1.5%. If he needs more to get back up and maintain condition - ad lib (which means as much as it takes), until making a difference to this pony.
 
Exasperated said:
‘Forage’, as in this means hay, grass, haylage, straw - as in, these are all bulking,tummy fillers (some more suitable than others) - please make certain that your pony is simply getting enough to keep full and preserve condition.

Forage Plus are a private company that produce ranges of supplements, balancers etc, based on principles that forage should be the basis for all good feeding. Their products are well researched, not particularly cheap, and some horses find them unpalatable - probably because they don’t add all the extra sugars that are often present in many other companies’ feedstuffs!

Definitely get onto the worming, never mind whether he is ‘due’ or not, and never under dose for parasites. 2000 is colossal, hopefully not done lasting damage.

First cut hay this year was generally got while dry, so I’m surprised yours is dusty, obviously you don’t want to make him cough, but don’t want to leach all goodness out with prolonged soaking, either.
If you have a lidded container, could try putting the hay bag in, couple of kettles of boiling, give it 10 mins for some steam to ‘damp’ things.
Or could buy a wallpaper steamer, sort out a hole and drainage into a dustbin / wheeliebin, and regularly steam his hay for longer
. Just ensure he is getting plenty of it!
Again, forget the 1.5%. If he needs more to get back up and maintain condition - ad lib (which means as much as it takes), until making a difference to this pony.
Click to expand...
ETA, ad lib also effectively means he will never have run out of hay in his stable, never mind by midnight and have nothing for six hours. You can reduce accordingly when back on top of things - particularly the parasites!
 
1.5% of their body weight is generally the recommended for them to lose weight, and if some of that is being soaked that’s possibly why he’s not gaining. i would be concerned something else may be underlying though, particularly with a dull coat.

if the hay is dusty i’d possibly try upping it to 2%, and rinsing it rather than soaking it so you’re not removing any nutrients, just the dust. honestly if he’s lacking on condition i’d be putting him on ad-lib hay, just keep on eye on him for getting too fat!


feed wise my exuberant welsh does well on the baileys lo-cal balancer, not so exuberant welsh is on the spillers lite and lean.
 
Ulcers would be my first thought, then possibly worms....tapeworm can cause this issue (mine had it last year out of nowhere!)

I would ask the vet to scope him and check his worm count/saliva test as a matter of urgency
 
my buzzy sec B is on ad lib hay, speedibeet (appreciate this didnt work you could use grass nuts instead) and lamicore balancer.
 
If he's running out of hay that would be the first thing to up- if your hay is a bit dusty this year, could you get some haylage to try him on? Some haylages are low-ish sugar so shouldn't be too heating.
As above, I'd do a worm count/check teeth as well.
It might also be worth trying a different broad spec vit/min supplement- different brands will have different binders/ingredients. Alternatively, you could have the forage tested and then decide if you need to supplement and if so, only supplement that which is lacking in the forage.
When you say he gets fizzy on oil, have you tried just linseed or vegetable oil as well? Vegetable oil is a fairly cheap way to up calories and isn't usually heating.
 
Did you do the saliva test for tapeworm too? Mine has got a lot better coat since I've managed (finally) to get on top of this - i think he kept getting reinfected
 
Why are you soaking hay for a horse that is lacking in condition and topline? Just put him on decent, ad lib hay or haylage and nothing else for a couple of weeks and see what 's happening. No reason to feed hard feed, balancers (what are you even balancing if you don't have your hay analysed?) or anything else really.

Also, I second those above to check for worms and ulcers.
 
What did I feed my Sec B? Literally a handful of chaff and a handful of cubes with some Brewer's yeast, she loved her rock salt lick too. Agree with others, if your pony is not thriving there's something wrong.
 
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