Flair/Cair/Air Panelled Saddles?

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ecrozier

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Been reading the post on the Wintec Isabell below...and just wondered what people's opinions are of them? I have just changed from a dressage saddle (an old Orion leather one) that had had air panels fitted for a flocked ideal Jessica and am looking forward to seeing if it makes any difference (the orion had dropped onto his wither so needed to change anyway, wasn't necessarily particularly because I wanted a flock rather than cair).
At some point in the future I am hoping to buy myself a nice new dressage saddle - does anyone think Cair is better than flock?
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I had Wintec close contact cairs for both my horses, I loved them, easy to maintain and fit, the weight was especially important for me as I can't lift anything easily above my shoulder height. I never had a moments trouble with them, they fitted nicely (mine were 15") and never, ever caused sore backs. I haven't owned a regularly flocked wintec so couldn't compare them.

I only hunted and hacked with mine even though I purposely bought the close contacts.
 
I love my cair momentum so much that I also bought the isabel worth

Totally love it! So does the big pony! 16.3hh of Irish boyo with very high withers!

Worth it!
 
IMO flair is far superior to cair because the air can be adjusted to fine tune the fit, whereas cair cannot be adjusted at all. Flair can fluctuate and move with the muscles but cair is just a piece of foam in a sealed chamber with a bit of air in it. It is often very hard- think of a crisp packet under pressure. Flair is much softer when correctly ftted and has been proven to reduce pressure under intensive testing. The research done on cair is substandard tbh- they compared two totally different saddles, not the same saddle with different flocking!

The cair panel can also become very thin underneath the gullet area because the foam compresses over time. Whilst the panel can be replaced many owners just think that their horse has changed shape because the saddle has dropped and they change the gullet for a narrower one. This makes the problem worse because the gullet can be too narrow for the horse so it digs in to both the panel and then the horse, so the panel compresses even more.

Wool flock is also good, if adjusted correctly and not left to go hard or lumpy. Synthetic flock goes hard and lumpy easily and doesnt absorb sweat, so i would avoid synthetic flock.

So my choice would be 1) flair 2) wool flock. Sorry but i wouldnt use a cair saddle if i was given one for free.
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Had Cair, not keen, hard, not adjustable and made horse sore at the back.

Had flock. Gets lumpy easily, only fits one horse. Not easily adjustable. Can be difficult to find a fitter you can trust.

Had foam panel filling (one piece, shaped to fit, not "bits" or "fibres") like it, stays very smooth but not adjustable at all.

Love Flair, have nothing but now, but some horses feel the airbag overlap. Cured with a geleze pad.
 
Cannot stand Flair saddles!!!!!! I wouldnt ride any of my horses in one even if i was paid!!!!! I'll put it this way there are major design flaws in the flair technology IMO, especially after speaking to a very well known saddler that uses flair. I have ridden in bates saddles with cair, i'm not sure if it is the cair of the saddles, but I find them really uncomfy (ive used the GP, dressage and jump) and horses have never gone particularly well in them. I now have wool flocked jumping saddles (a black country and a albion) both I absolutly love. I also like the foam pannels, so may investigate these a bit further when I next need a new saddle. Just remember that any saddle is only as good as the person fitting it.
 
I have a flair dr saddle, not bought on purpose it was the only 2nd hand one my saddler had that fitted but i like it!
 
The air bags do not fit the saddles, therefore they can move, leaving a gap with no air, and then an overlap of 2 airbags. You then have to pay £300 to get it repaired, if your lucky. Or the airbags move and pop the other airbags, so you have to pay for a whole new airbag system. I asked the maker of my saddle why the bags had moved, i was told "well the airbags aren't made for your saddle, it is one size fits all, so it just depends on weather your saddle fits the airbags or not" I told the maker that surely this is a major design flaw, and they said "well it is just how it is" and they changed the subject very quickly. I have spoken to ALOT of people who have had similar problems with flair saddles. They have damaged my horses back irrepairably due to the bags moving (my fitter didn't notice the bags had moved, evenn though I pointed out my saddle was deflated at the front. It wasn't until my physio saw the saddle and said it was the most appauling piece of saddlery he had ever seen) Bear in mind this saddle was under 18 months old, and cost nearly £2K new, made to measure for my horse.
 
See I had flair put in my dressage saddle as this saddle and jump one didn't fit at all, Pidge's back has improved no end since going down this route and he has built the muscle back up that was destroyed with a flocked saddle
 
I see that as a flaw in the saddler who fitted the bags, rather than a flaw in the flair system. The saddler shouldnt have fitted the bags if they didnt fit! You wouldnt put land rover tyres on a mondeo and expect it to be ok.

You should take that up with the person who made your saddle, its their fault for fitting a component that wasnt suitable and telling you to put up with it. Even worse to charge you to replace them. And i dont mean to be rude but your fitter cant be very good if they couldnt tell the bags had moved. You must have some very unscrupulous saddlers in your area if alot of people have had a problem with bags moving.

In your experience it seems you have been a victim of poor workmanship from the saddle maker and bad advice from the fitter. What a nightmare for you.

If flair is correctly fitted and adjusted the bags dont move and they dont pop!
 
If I tell you this was said to me by the owner of the saddle company whose name is the Brand of the saddle (It is a well known brand) would you be surprised?????????
 
Are the initials SC by any chance? (If it is i think they have another design problem- the gullets are very narrow meaning the panels sit on the spine on some horses)

You honestly wouldnt have had such a problem if the bags were fitted correctly and they were ok for the saddle. The saddle maker in your instance was covering her back at your expense. Disgraceful!
 
How did you guess!!!!!!!!!!! Truely appauling, but i have lost all faith in these saddles, as I also had a dressage saddle with flair (a different well known flair brand) that started deflating (horse started bolting out of the blue) turned out every single airbag was riddled with holes, needed a completly new air bag system fitted (which the company did do for free), but this saddle was under 3 months old!!!!!!!!! I gave flair the benefit of the doubt after this and got my SC one for my new boy, biggest mistake I ever made. I sold my flair dressage saddle as I then couldn't get it to fit any of my horses, without having to pay ££££££ for new bits to make it fit. I think the airbays were holey from the start, so once they had been replaced the saddle was completly wrong for my horse.
 
I had a Isabell Werth cair dressage saddle for Hannah em and it was a nice saddle but was quite hard on the horses back,i ended up having aching thighs if i rode in it for a while as the stirrup bars are set a lot further back than on a normal saddle. I would def go for a different sort of dressage saddle when i'm looking in the future,lots of nicer ones out there
 
Hmm very interesting thanks. I think the one I am getting rid of is a Cair rather than Flair as I believe it can't be adjusted and I also think its quite hard in places when I run my hand accross the panles underneath it.
I kind of need one with the stirrup bars fairly far back though as the one I have the are too far forward and thats not helping my position at all - both my horse and the other one I compete (who my old saddle actually fits very nicely!) I ride better and they go better when I ride with no stirrups, as then my legs fall underneath me.
I'd quite like to try a Heather Moffat treeless one or a Solution one but can't quite afford it at the moment so will go with this Ideal Jessica I have picked up quite cheap and get that checked over until I have managed to save up for something newer!
Thanks all, interesting discussion!
 
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