Flash nosebands ..are they necessary?

A Flash noseband is one of those ‘delightful gadgets’ which only addresses a symptom and does not eliminate the cause of an issue. It is a quick fix.

If a rider has to use one I suggest the rider is either using the wrong bit and/or needs to revisit what he/she is doing with their hands and how they are riding.

Bits are placed in a horse’s mouth and they cause pain, if your horse is fussing and opening its mouth it is uncomfortable and probably in pain.

Some horses will tolerate having their mouth clamped shut by this device but others protest. Listen to your horse.
 
Thank you all for the feedback. I'm riding him today so the strap will be off..not just loose. Your comments all reinforce what I was feeling. He is a greedy little beggar but again taping his mouth shut is not the answer as he needs to learn a few manners. I had a good read through the article about bits and also through an article about different type of bits. Humans have been very creative when it comes to methods to 'control' a horse.
I'm not even sure that my recent purchase of sticky bum breeches is not cheating in some way. :) :D
 
No not a fan. If somethings needed I prefer a drop or a grackle, very occasionally I imagine the odd horse might benefit from one, but like most gadgets, more often than not they are used instead of schooling/riding correctly. And sometimes just cos it came on the bridle. I've found with every horse I've rode in one they go better if you take it off, or swop to a drop or grackle. I've also found that if you put a flash on most horses that don't need one, they'll fight it because its there, hence people think 'oh look he still tries to open his mouth with a flash, imagine what he'd do without it'. Also unlike a grackle or drop, to fit a flash correctly the cavesson has to fit tightly too, so its not just the mouth you close you pin the whole jaw still too. So it has an effect all the time regardless of what the horse does.
 
OP are you the owner of the horse? If you are not I would suggest asking the owner why she has put the flash on, and ask her before you take it off!

As for the flash, I think they are useful. Not all people like them fair enough, but if fitted correctly then can't do any harm. I would rather use a flash than a harsher bit.
 
I remember the days when, if you bought a bridle, it only ever came with a cavesson. Personally, I prefer a grackle to a flash. Has anyone noticed that the use of flash nosebands has crept into racing more? (I'm thinking here of NH, I don't really follow flat racing). You see fewer and fewer NH horses in a plain noseband - or no noseband at all. (I also remember the days when you only saw grackles on racehorses too!)
 
The best use I ever found for a flash was to buckle it to the D rings of the saddle and hang a water bottle or a bag of sandwiches off it for long trail rides.

All nice dressage bridles, in my experience, seem to come with them as a matter of course. I admit, I used one on my horse for a few years for no other reason than "that's just what you did" until more research and thought revealed that it was probably doing more harm than good. I quit using it on the horse about six or seven years ago and the horse has been much happier and more forward in her dressage work. They don't make the horse any more accepting of the contact. They just disguise, at least to the untrained eye, the fact that he's not.

But if you need to attach your lunch to your saddle, they are quite handy.
 
only_me said:
OP are you the owner of the horse? If you are not I would suggest asking the owner why she has put the flash on, and ask her before you take it off!

As for the flash, I think they are useful. Not all people like them fair enough, but if fitted correctly then can't do any harm. I would rather use a flash than a harsher bit.
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No it's my friend's horse. She started riding about 14months ago but she's not had any formal lessons. Initially she was riding a very steady old shire but when he went back to his owner she bought a young cob. He's just 5 years so very young. The flash was encouraged by the livery owner who she rides with. The main problem is that she's a bit scared of him and tenses up. This makes him tense and he's bucked her a few times. So a vicious circle really. She needs to learn to ride properly and he needs more schooling. Not a happy mix, I'm sure you'd agree. I've been learning for one year but I'm having lessons every week So I'm not sure she is always receptive to my suggestions and I'm in a rather difficult position at times as I have to give way in the face of knowledge and experience. I have an entirely different attitude and if there's a problem with the horse I tend to blame myself before I blame the horse. He's not a bad little chap but was beginning to get a reputation for being difficult and none of her other friends were willing to ride him. With me he's very good, apart from his constant snacking. She's agreed to have my RI in to school him and her so hopefully this will help. If the rain ever stops and the field dries out,
 
Caol Ila said:
The best use I ever found for a flash was to buckle it to the D rings of the saddle and hang a water bottle or a bag of sandwiches off it for long trail rides.
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-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ great suggestion. Am off to find my flask :)
 
The last time flash nosebands came up, I said that in my opinion, people who used them were poor riders.

My opinion hasn't changed, a crap peice of kit for crap riders.
 
Im very heartened by all fellow flash dislike-ers! I believe they can really bother a horse , particularly one with teeth/gum problems. I do prefer a 'hasher' bit , at help i would know if the horse objected and could open his mouth! Bits are only harsh or not by the handsa using them , and I wouldnt call myself a rider if I couldnt use a double bridle sympatheticly. OH dreassaging to Med , is the only competitor in snaffle without flash. And dont get me started on cranks /flash combos!
Having made our place 'flash free ' years ago [ along with other gadgets] we nearly lost a friend who wanted to use our school to train. She refused to take flash attachment off - why ?we asked - she shouted at us _'Because thats what she WEARS' wtf!?
 
vickyb said:
I remember the days when, if you bought a bridle, it only ever came with a cavesson. Personally, I prefer a grackle to a flash. Has anyone noticed that the use of flash nosebands has crept into racing more? (I'm thinking here of NH, I don't really follow flat racing). You see fewer and fewer NH horses in a plain noseband - or no noseband at all. (I also remember the days when you only saw grackles on racehorses too!)
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I haven't noticed any flashes on racehorses, plenty of grackles, but not flashes.

As for the other uses for a flash strap, I use one on the front of my children's saddle. Threaded through the D rings it make an excellent handle!
 
He may use one but does he need one?

Why not address the displaced behavior, if the horse has it.

Is he the best? Or the best of the worse that turn up?

No it says nothing for the rest of you.
 
I'm happy to be a crap rider if it keeps me alive:p the big girl wears a crank and a flash:eek: it's what she came to me on loan with and both her owner and old sharer had tried plenty of different combinations of bits and nosebands and a loose ring french link and the flash seemed to be the best accepted and i was advised not to change it. Which i didn't until she was signed over to me and i thought i would just have a play with some different bits, ohhhh blimey, madam didn't take too kindly to my making changes and we had a few hair raising laps of the field, some fine impressions of giraffes on acid and various other antics. went back to the crank and flash and she relaxed again:confused: i have got to the point of not doing it up tightly and she's fine with that, one day i may try again to remove it but if she reacts like she did before it will be back on.
none of my others wear one and TBH i don't particularly like them but if big girl is happier wearing hers then she can keep it:)
 
TigerTail said:
Flashes basically cause the horse to be tense in the jaw the whole time, if hes tense in the jaw hes tense through his neck and back as everything connects.
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Especially done up tight. My moment of revelation was when somebody (possibly on here?) said "Try running with your your jaw clamped shut" (as opposed to a normal relaxed mouth with your teeth not clenched). The horror of making a horse do that without escape, or if they are able to resist the must be pushing out against the flash the whole time, well, that's not conducive to a soft mouth and acceptance of the bit.

TrasaM said:
I'm not even sure that my recent purchase of sticky bum breeches is not cheating in some way. :) :D
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Doesn't have a negative impact on the horse, helps you to stay injury free.. its a winner as far as I'm concerned ;)


Rhino or someone who knows more abotu dropped nosebands, I've only ever come across them a couple of times. Can one of you explain to me why they are better than a flash please?
 
Those who dislike Crank/Flash please could you tell me more. My boy was in one when I bought him and didn't want to change immediately but don't like it and looking to switch now (I do have a thread about it on here) but looking for as many ideas on alternatives as possible and peoples opinions on cranks crank/flash
 
Naturally-re drops: because of the fit they only have any action on the horse if they actually open their mouth. You can fit them loose enough so the horse can open its mouth slightly in the regular way any horse does, but stops them opening wide enough to evade. A correctly fitted one even on a horse that doesn't need it has no effect. And even on a horse who does open its jaw to evade the horse is rewarded by the fact that once it stops evading, any pressure is removed. They are also thicker than a flash so any pressure when it does come into play is evenly spread. However a flash has to be attached to a tight noseband which clamps the jaw shut continuously with no reward for not evading. If you attach to a loose noseband that allows jaw movement, you get pressure points.
 
I wondered why most of the kids at Pony Club ride in a flash,and one of the mums told me that they use it as an alternative to grass or daisy reins-they can't open their mouths to snatch grass.
 
Naturally said:
Rhino or someone who knows more abotu dropped nosebands, I've only ever come across them a couple of times. Can one of you explain to me why they are better than a flash please?
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Flashes keep the mouth shut. That's it really. Their main action is on the chin/curb groove. Because the cavesson/crank and flash parts needs to be reasonably tight, it can create uncomfortable pressure over the teeth.

For a horse to work truly 'on the bit' and encourage salivation it must be able flex its jaw properly; to do this it needs to displace the lower jaw slightly forwards which a flash disallows. If they can't do this, they will often 'evade' by fighting and trying to open their mouths.

The drop doesn't need to (and shouldn't) be fitted snugly to come into effect only when the horse opens its mouth. It lifts the bit slightly higher in the mouth and therefore has more action on the corners of the mouth and releasing bar pressure. It acts on the front of the nose, the chin/curb groove and is supposed to have some degree of poll pressure. It's also a more direct action than a flash, as it lies straight across the horse's face unlike a flash which lies at an angle.

It is hard to find drops to fit sometimes, they really need to be carefully fitted and not have too thick a front strap. They are also better with some bits than others; they can tend to slightly slide up a loosering/eggbutt cheekpiece but not with a D-ring or fulmer/full cheek, and if you use one with a hanging snaffle then you must be aware you are adding some (though not much) leverage action.

The SRS tends to use them on all their horses until they are ready for a double :) and they are still more popular in 'classical' circles.
 
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No.

Hate them with a passion, especially when they are done up so tight that they clamp the horses mouth shut.

First thing I do with my clients who use a flash is to ask them why. Many don't know. I had a lovely young eventer who answered she used one just because everyone else on the yard did:confused:

They generally find after instruction they develop a better seat, the horse improves its way of going, and hey presto the flash is removed.

Mind you, they come in very useful for looping through the d-rings, and hooking little finger underneath to stop wayward hands.;)
 
I've never had to use a flash noseband and I don't ever intend to. I would much rather use a drop if ever I had the need. I used to have classical lessons and my instructor would instantly remove the flash from any horse which came for a lesson - preferring to address the problem (or usually rider issue) underneath.
 
vickyb said:
I remember the days when, if you bought a bridle, it only ever came with a cavesson. Personally, I prefer a grackle to a flash. Has anyone noticed that the use of flash nosebands has crept into racing more? (I'm thinking here of NH, I don't really follow flat racing). You see fewer and fewer NH horses in a plain noseband - or no noseband at all. (I also remember the days when you only saw grackles on racehorses too!)
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We have one racehorse who runs in no noseband due to sarcoids on his face and everything else wears a grackle. We highslung grackles, a lot of other people use low slung grackles. Rarely are flashes used in rules racing. I have seen plenty of PTPers with flashes on.

I ride all of mine in plain cavesons. I have used a drop on the odd occasion when I am breaking/schooling on a youngster that has realised if it opens it's mouth it can evade the bit or can get it's tongue over. A couple of days with a drop makes them realise it's not a good thing to do and they have never had a bother again.
 
Rode earlier and I removed the flash and left it attached to the saddle. (it will be handy to strap a snack bag to) He was on his best behaviour throughout and he did not do the open mouth jaw stretching I've seen him do in the past when I took his bridle off.
I've just told his owner that I'd taken it off and she was ok with it as it was never her idea to use it. Result! A much happier cob I think. :)

PS. We had a wonderful trot through all the flooded roads and of course no cars..always a bonus. Might as well make some use of all is water.
 
I think they're good for some horses and useless for others. Are they necessary? Probably not. Can they benefit some horses? I think so. It all depends on the horse.
 
I'm not a big fan of the flash but I do use one on Ginge from time to time if he's getting a bit wayward in canter when we're schooling. Just for a session or 2 to remind him of his manners. Or sometimes for dressage on grass. Then it's back to the usual loose cavesson. Yes probably a drop would be better but they are hard to find and I'd only use it occasionally.

Better than hauling on his mouth in my opinion!
 
rhino said:
Flashes were developed so as to be able to use a standing martingale with a drop noseband. Personally I really dislike flashes, and would much rather use a drop if a non-cavesson noseband is required.
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The world is the right way up again, I agree with rhino - really dislike flash nosebands too!
 
Pale Rider said:
He may use one but does he need one?

Why not address the displaced behavior, if the horse has it.

Is he the best? Or the best of the worse that turn up?

No it says nothing for the rest of you.
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I admit it I'm a crap rider and I'm never likely not to be a crap rider - few of us have the skills to control every horse in the perfect way - whatever that is. I have regular lessons with a top dressage trainer and judge but I'm never going to be a great rider or the the bravest rider but I like to hack out and school and frankly if a flash means I can do this safely then I will use it.

I try to use the least tack I can and try to deal with problems through training but you know what sometimes it just doesn't work.

You don't give much away about yourself - what exactly do you do apart from impart your supercilious wisdom.
 
I don't like flash attachments; if you have to strap your horse's mouth shut in order to ride it there is something seriously wrong with the way the training is going. Yet you'll hardly see a horse without one at a dressage competition these days, and what's with the tight tight tight nosebands? Years ago it was all about the drop noseband, but you don't see them much any more. How can you have a relaxed jaw if the face is bound up?
 
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