Flash nosebands rant!

We all like to think we know our horses, and presumably do our best for them to make sure they are comfortable. Not all riders however have the knowledge or experience to make that judgement, or to fit tack correctly. The cureent fad for flash nosebands is wide open to abuse by the inexperienced who assume by the nature of the thing that it should be tight. If a horse genuinely needs it, then providing it is fitted correctly, i certainly wouldnt object, although i would prefer not to use one myself. I did however ride one of my horses for over 20 years in a dropped noseband, which is a very useful piece of kit, rarely used any more.
 
I restarted my ex-racer in a cavesson (I can't abide bridles with no noseband [shudder]) & a Mullen happy mouth loose ring snaffle, however if any of you want to try holding one side of him on a XC course in anything but his Mexican grackle & NS lozenge full cheek snaffle & running martingale then please be my guest :) You see horses, like us humans are individual & what noseband/bit they are happiest & most rideable in varies.
I am not a numpty I don't follow tack 'fashion', I choose bit & noseband combinations that help make my horse seem happiest in his work even a [gasp] flash!! If this wants to make you rant then please go ahead....you see I actually don't give a flying whatsit what you think....I listen to my instructor & my horse :D

Oh & this charming horse decided that a Micklem was the actual work of the devil :(
 
What suits one horse does not suit another drop Is not better than a flash it's different one of my horses loves a micklem one of the others do not, horses are different the jobs they do are different.
 
FfionWinnie said:
What's a bit if its not a gadget. I've gone though many more than 20 bits/
bitless options with my mare and I found quite by accident she prefers the bit not to move. The Micklem doesn't keep her mouth shut by
strapping it shut, it keeps it shut (mostly) because it stops the bit movingly
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Ditto for 1 off mine......he likes the suspension of the bit in a micklem ..same bit in a cavesson upsets him.
 
Interesting thread! Boyo came to us on part loan in a flash and running martingale, with a myler ported snaffle. After chatting to his owner we decided to try him without the flash and martingale, and actually found him a lot lighter on the contact (he is very much on the forehand), and just generally more responsive
 
I used a flash in the past because i thought it looked nicer on the horse than a plain cavesson. It wasn't tight, the horse barely noticed it, it took me about 15 seconds extra to clean the bridle.

So shoot me :D
 
I will say that I dont like flash nosebands, and I do imagine that SOME people do use them through ignorance or peer pressure / fashion and that in SOME of those cases they are causing discomfort to the horse. I had a little horse kept at a riding school where he had a tight flash, and I found he went FAR better in a loosely done up cavesson noseband and just seemed masses more comfortable. I think that shaped my view of them a lot. However, I have had to climb off my high horse recently as my new one Roo does go a lot better in a flash and seems quite happy. I sneakily do it up looser than my RI does if he catches me!! I was pleased to read that their function is to hold the bit secure in the mouth - I feel a lot more comfortable about that than the physical holding closed of the mouth.

And I freely admit it is none of my business what others put on their horse, except that if I do see something that I think is causing discomfort, I would feel it was my duty to say something.
 
Hang on a minute...
Could we stop using the word gadget like its a bit of dirt on your shoes....i also think that while there are some very good points on here some of it is far too judgemental. i think to assume that all novices are wearing certain tack beacause its fashionable is unfair as many i expect have been advised whether it be wrongly or rightsly by their instructor or some other superior equine person they know. Perhaps some of you should think about helping these novices rather than judging them...after all how do you know what their horses/ponies do or do not need?

i ride in a cheltenham gag and a flash...not beacause they are 'fashionable' but because having tried countless bits and noseband combinations we could not find anything that i could control her in and she tolerated, following the advice of several instrctors we discovered that this combination worked fo us...though i expect if a lot of you saw us at a competition we would be judged as novices following a fashion.
 
Here is the stupid question of the day. I should know these things, but I was thinking about it yesterday after reading the article on The Horse (here: http://www.thehorse.com/articles/32369/researchers-measure-horses-noseband-pressure) about research that's been done on noseband pressure, and I realized I had no clue why I rode my horse in a cavesson. Well, other than the totally superficial reason that English bridles are supposed to have one (Western bridles, for the most part, don't) and given that's what we're used to seeing, it would look weird without.

Does the plain cavesson have any purpose beyond looking cool? My cavesson is also shiny. So long as it doesn't harm the horse, that's surely a reason to use it, isn't it?

(as a total aside, I have just gone to Keiffer's website to see if they still make bridles with the shiny cavesson. Don't think they do, but OMG, my horse needs this: http://www.kieffer.net/snaffle_bridles/isabella/?start=36/)
 
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I think it was intended as an extra support for if the horse tripped and caught it's jaw it prevented it from being broken? Don't quote me on that though!
 
Caol Ila said:
Here is the stupid question of the day. I should know these things, but I was thinking about it yesterday after reading the article on The Horse (here: http://www.thehorse.com/articles/32369/researchers-measure-horses-noseband-pressure) about research that's been done on noseband pressure, and I realized I had no clue why I rode my horse in a cavesson. Well, other than the totally superficial reason that English bridles are supposed to have one (Western bridles, for the most part, don't) and given that's what we're used to seeing, it would look weird without.

Does the plain cavesson have any purpose beyond looking cool? My cavesson is also shiny. So long as it doesn't harm the horse, that's surely a reason to use it, isn't it?

(as a total aside, I have just gone to Keiffer's website to see if they still make bridles with the shiny cavesson. Don't think they do, but OMG, my horse needs this: http://www.kieffer.net/snaffle_bridles/isabella/?start=36/)
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Dunno but the study I previously mentioned was done on racehorses and showed they performed better (or maybe pulled in more oxygen) if they were wearing a noseband compared to no nose band. It is saved on my lap top but it has died, I will have a google for it! I think if they can't open their mouths they actually breathe more efficiently.

I have also heard the thing about Broken jaws that Lolo mentions too.
 
Cavesson nosebands are for:
1) cosmetic reasons, to 'finish' the horses head.
2) the only noseband (including the cavesson part of a flash noseband in this) that you can attach a standing martingale to.
3) fastened two fingers width below the cheekbones and with room to fit two fingers inbetween it and the horse's head, it will not do much to help prevent opening the mouth wide. But this effect can be made stronger by dropping the noseband by two or three holes and tightening it so you can only fit one finger in between it and the horse's head.
4) out on a hack if a cheekpiece breaks (which shouldn't happen in well cared for decent tack but sometimes happens in cheap bridles if a horse treads on the reins) you have something to lead the horse home by.
 
A drop is to stop the horse opening his mouth, and accepting the bit, should be ale to fit 1 finger under jaw for correct tightness/looseness, a flash/crackle/x noseband is designed to stop the horse getting its tongue over the bit and keeping the tongue laid flat in the horses mouth, e.g. Horses that displace their palates during exercise, again 1 finger should be allowed to fit between both pieces of tack for tighness/correct fitting.

A noseband and a flash and a grackle should not be placed on the horses nostril, far too many are fitted too low down and too tightly. The cavesson part of the grackle/flash most definitely should not be tight otherwise the horses teeth are being forced against each other which is extremely uncomfortable for it.

I do get frustrated when i see racehorses, assumably trained by professionals, with the x noseband fitted far too low with nostrils flaring, they should know better.
 
Well, I've never out much thought into my tack really, both ridden horses are in a cavesson and snaffle for flat work and gag for SJ or XC. The mare was in a snaffle for everything with me, but her new jockey is much smaller, younger and weaker than I am, so she has a gag for jumping and cantering in open fields. My boy is mainly in a fulmer snaffle, however gets a bit ahead of himself while jumping, we're still schooling him but he waves his head around and pulls so much I'm almost out of control, so he's on the first ring of his gag and goes beautifully into jumps now (I didnt expect such a change so got a thick gag rather than just a drop snaffle). I have used flashes and grackles in the past, admittedly (being between 12 and 16 at the time) most of the time it was for fashion. Much like the sparkly/brightly coloured numnahs around, but each to their own. If someone wants their horse to look fashionable, why not?
 
Amy567 said:
Well, I've never out much thought into my tack really, both ridden horses are in a cavesson and snaffle for flat work and gag for SJ or XC. The mare was in a snaffle for everything with me, but her new jockey is much smaller, younger and weaker than I am, so she has a gag for jumping and cantering in open fields. My boy is mainly in a fulmer snaffle, however gets a bit ahead of himself while jumping, we're still schooling him but he waves his head around and pulls so much I'm almost out of control, so he's on the first ring of his gag and goes beautifully into jumps now (I didnt expect such a change so got a thick gag rather than just a drop snaffle). I have used flashes and grackles in the past, admittedly (being between 12 and 16 at the time) most of the time it was for fashion. Much like the sparkly/brightly coloured numnahs around, but each to their own. If someone wants their horse to look fashionable, why not?
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fahionable is ok if it doesnt affect the horse, but are you really saying fashion is more important than our horses breathing/comfort?
 
I'm just away to put the flash back on my bridle, after a few months without it. Had changed his bit, but on going back to the snaffle he either leans on or falls behind the bit without a flash to hold it still. He despises a drop, so wouldn't try a micklem. Plus I've found that drop nosebands don't last as long - without VERY regular cleaning and caring, the froth from a nice soft mouth rots the leather, same as with a flash, but replacing a whole noseband is more expensive than a piece of leather... Then again I've had bridles that are twenty years old plus so for people who don't keep their bridles so longi guess it doesn't matter.
 
ShowjumpingPrincess said:
If you look at a horses nostrils after they have been galloping, you would see that a large area just above the nostrils becomes extremely inflated by oxygen, this is where the flash sits therefore the horses oxygen intake is extremely reduced!!

:
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The short answer why you are wrong is contained in your own statement above.The nostrils DO NOT BECOME INFLATED BY OXYGEN(or air)The nostrils dilate by muscular effort to avoid the risk of a collapse of the airway through the soft tissues of the nostrils Nosebands of anykind can have only a neglegable effect on the airways through the nose itself. At rest the nostrils are mostly closed to filter out dust etc but are opend by muscles when increased airflow is required. They are not inflated by air.
 
(as a total aside, I have just gone to Keiffer's website to see if they still make bridles with the shiny cavesson. Don't think they do, but OMG, my horse needs this: http://www.kieffer.net/snaffle_bridles/isabella/?start=36/)[/QUOTE]

Oldbridge184_zps99811950.jpg


This is our everyday bridle, he he. When I used to work as a dressage trainer EVERY horse went in a flash and nobody even thought about why. I used to hear mutterings when I went about with just a cavesson on my young horses (doubles with cavessons are required at FEI level), but it is a very rare event to actually need a flash IME.
 
So what do we think of this from the PC website:

http://www.ponyprep.org/training.php?id=83

She certainly doesn't leave 2 fingers space under the cavesson... and in all the PC training literature it says that with a flash the cavesson should be done up "firmly" so that it doesn't slip down when the flash is fitted and that the flash should also be done up "firmly".

.....scuttles off to check the fit on ours!!
 
How firm is "firmly" 'tho? I have seen dressage horses with the flesh bulging on either side of their nosebands, and with permanent depressions in their noses from a lifetime of "firm" nosebands. And don't get me started on those crank jobbies.
 
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