Flash Nosebands

[HollyWoozle]

In light of the recent discussions regarding CDJ, horse welfare, the ethics of horse sport etc. I find myself studying and pondering on different bits of kit riders are using on their horses more and more. Flash nosebands are something I've never really been entirely comfortable with but they are so common now - it seems the vast majority of eventers have them on for XC for example.

10+ years ago when I had lessons on my own horse, my instructor very quickly suggested I put my horse in a Dutch gag and a flash (which I did, believing her to know better than me). Therefore I am not throwing any stones but I am genuinely interested in why flash nosebands have become so popular, I feel like they are a relatively modern thing? But maybe I am wrong in that? Is their purpose really just to stop the horse opening their mouth? Or do those of you who use them believe them to serve another purpose as well, such as keeping the bit in position (I've even seen "The flash noseband improves the connection between the hand and mouth" for example).

I've ridden horses in all sorts of tack, especially as I often ride abroad, and more than anything I am just interested to know why different pieces of equipment are chosen and what is the logic behind them. I'll hold up my hands and say my knowledge is pretty limited when it comes to these things. Could eventers using a flash (or a grackle) survive without them? What would be the alternative?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

My guess is to keep the mouth shut and to keep the tongue flat so it can't hang out, I think people use them as when horses open the jaw and cross it it's classed as an evasion and makes the bit less efficient.

I can't stand them and won't use them Arabi doesn't even get ridden in a noseband and Louis has a cavesson on loose.

Most bridles have flash straps now I find its hard to find one without.

It's very hard to swallow with your tongue clamped to the roof of your mouth which is why horses with tight noseband have so much white froth.

 

[MagicMelon]

Of course they could survive without these nosebands. I feel tack makers need to change their ways though - as Pinkvboots has pointed out, Ive also struggled in the past to find bridles without flashes. MOST should come with cavesson nosebands, that would also help from a grassroots level as how many low level riders getting their first pony/horse will just use the flash because their bridle automatically comes with one, they wont even question it. Mine is in a cavesson. Although I do have a Micklem which I bought as I thought it would be kinder due to its shape as a whole but I dont use it often as I dont like the drop noseband part but its not really useable without I dont think (is attached anyway, cant just take it off).

 

[Nonjumper]

Flash nosebands have been around for decades and have been used in competition for just a long. The purpose is to stop the horse opening its mouth, crossing its jaw and putting its tongue over the bit. The Grackle does the same but is supposed to take pressure off the teeth and not impede breathing as it sits much higher. But basically they are all to stop evasion of the bit by the horse. Whether they are really needed on the majority (or any) horse they are used in is highly debatable though.

 

[criso]

Flash nosebands have been around for decades and have been used in competition for just a long. The purpose is to stop the horse opening its mouth, crossing its jaw and putting its tongue over the bit. The Grackle does the same but is supposed to take pressure off the teeth and not impede breathing as it sits much higher. But basically they are all to stop evasion of the bit by the horse. Whether they are really needed on the majority (or any) horse they are used in is highly debatable though.

The original purpose of flash noseband was to allow people who wanted the action of a Drop noseband but also wanted a Cavesson to attach a standing martingale.

I don't like them because if you try to get something to do 2 jobs, there's a compromise so would go for a Drop or Grackle before a Flash.

My last horse was in a Drop as he hated a Cavesson even without a flash strap

 

[marmalade76]

The flash was invented purely for the use of a standing martingale on a horse that needed a drop (you shouldn't use a standing martingale on a traditional drop or a grackle) so it is a compromise. As hardly anyone uses a standing martingale these days (they are very much frowned upon by many) you'd have thought that the flash would also go out of fashion.

Fashion, sadly, has a lot to do with why a lot of things are used - ear bonnets, boots and bandages, elaborate bits..

 

[marmalade76]

The original purpose of flash noseband was to allow people who wanted the action of a Drop noseband but also wanted a Cavesson to attach a standing martingale.

I don't like them because if you try to get something to do 2 jobs, there's a compromise so would go for a Drop or Grackle before a Flash.

My last horse was in a Drop as he hated a Cavesson even without a flash strap

Cross posted, sorry.

 

[criso]

The only thing you could say is you needed to make a decision to buy a Drop or a Cavesson. It is easy to add or remove a flash strap.

 

[TPO]

Flash nosebands have been around for decades and have been used in competition for just a long. The purpose is to stop the horse opening its mouth, crossing its jaw and putting its tongue over the bit. The Grackle does the same but is supposed to take pressure off the teeth and not impede breathing as it sits much higher. But basically they are all to stop evasion of the bit by the horse. Whether they are really needed on the majority (or any) horse they are used in is highly debatable though.

Their purpose was to allow people to use standing martingales. They should only be used with cavessons so left those riding in drops without that option.

Cross posted with Criso. Got distracted by the showjumping

 

[paddy555]

My guess is to keep the mouth shut and to keep the tongue flat so it can't hang out, I think people use them as when horses open the jaw and cross it it's classed as an evasion and makes the bit less efficient.



It's very hard to swallow with your tongue clamped to the roof of your mouth which is why horses with tight noseband have so much white froth.

funnily enough I was thinking about these sort of nosebands earlier today, ie ones that keep the mouth shut. There is no way that I would want a horse to HAVE to keep his mouth shut nor to be unable to move his tongue nor to have difficulty swallowing just so that I could ride him. If I couldn't ride him, ie he was uncontrollable, without having his mouth clamped shut then I would be very seriously looking at my riding/training.

If it is considered necessary to do this then is it ethical to ride that horse?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

funnily enough I was thinking about these sort of nosebands earlier today, ie ones that keep the mouth shut. There is no way that I would want a horse to HAVE to keep his mouth shut nor to be unable to move his tongue nor to have difficulty swallowing just so that I could ride him. If I couldn't ride him, ie he was uncontrollable, without having his mouth clamped shut then I would be very seriously looking at my riding/training.

If it is considered necessary to do this then is it ethical to ride that horse?

I used to show Arabi and in alot of my pictures I bought his mouth is slightly open in some of them, but the overall picture is nice and relaxed so I think when you have a lump of metal in your mouth sometimes you will need to move your jaw, open your mouth and move your tongue around.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Dex froths up in the mouth when he's being ridden, 50% due to the fact I give him a treat when we successfully manage a gate and 50% due to the fact he likes a chew of the rubber bit and is young and fidgety at times. I don't think you can always say that a frothy mouth is a bad thing, he only ever wears a loose cavesson, you can actually see the gap between it and his face in photos it's so loose.

 

[Kaylum]

I used to show Arabi and in alot of my pictures I bought his mouth is slightly open in some of them, but the overall picture is nice and relaxed so I think when you have a lump of metal in your mouth sometimes you will need to move your jaw, open your mouth and move your tongue around.

Absolutely and they chew using a sidewards grinding action. They need to be able to open their mouths

Never understood why the micklem is so popular .

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Dex froths up in the mouth when he's being ridden, 50% due to the fact I give him a treat when we successfully manage a gate and 50% due to the fact he likes a chew of the rubber bit and is young and fidgety at times. I don't think you can always say that a frothy mouth is a bad thing, he only ever wears a loose cavesson, you can actually see the gap between it and his face in photos it's so loose.

A bit of froth is good but sometimes it's pouring from the mouth and flicking everywhere and it's normally because the moseband is too tight.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

A bit of froth is good but sometimes it's pouring from the mouth and flicking everywhere and it's normally because the moseband is too tight.

I have to admit that I didn't realise a tight noseband was the cause for this often..

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have to admit that I didn't realise a tight noseband was the cause for this often..

Excessive froth can be caused by other things like general mouth discomfort and being ridden overbent as well but although double bridles have cavesson noseband they are normally those crank ones which are horrible because they are used to be tight.

 

[palo1]

In light of the recent discussions regarding CDJ, horse welfare, the ethics of horse sport etc. I find myself studying and pondering on different bits of kit riders are using on their horses more and more. Flash nosebands are something I've never really been entirely comfortable with but they are so common now - it seems the vast majority of eventers have them on for XC for example.

10+ years ago when I had lessons on my own horse, my instructor very quickly suggested I put my horse in a Dutch gag and a flash (which I did, believing her to know better than me). Therefore I am not throwing any stones but I am genuinely interested in why flash nosebands have become so popular, I feel like they are a relatively modern thing? But maybe I am wrong in that? Is their purpose really just to stop the horse opening their mouth? Or do those of you who use them believe them to serve another purpose as well, such as keeping the bit in position (I've even seen "The flash noseband improves the connection between the hand and mouth" for example).

I've ridden horses in all sorts of tack, especially as I often ride abroad, and more than anything I am just interested to know why different pieces of equipment are chosen and what is the logic behind them. I'll hold up my hands and say my knowledge is pretty limited when it comes to these things. Could eventers using a flash (or a grackle) survive without them? What would be the alternative?

They were an innovation that allowed for a martingale to be used: a drop can't be used with one but if you want the strap under the bit and a martingale, a flash is the answer. That is my understanding anyway; I've never owned or used a flash noseband.

 

[palo1]

Sorry, the above has already been stated!

 

[GypsGal1718]

People use them as a quick fix to stop a horse from opening their mouth instead of trying to find out why they are, I think all riders that use them don’t need them, you should be able to ride without your horses mouth being practically wired shut. Just my opinion

 

[Cloball]

People use them as a quick fix to stop a horse from opening their mouth instead of trying to find out why they are, I think all riders that use them don’t need them, you should be able to ride without your horses mouth being practically wired shut. Just my opinion

When I was a teen this is what I was advised for a green pony that opened their mouth by people who should have known better. I could have taken that as gospel, now I only ride in a noseband if I need to put some hi Viz or a lead rope on it (or the reins and forget the bit). I think a lot of riding education is anecdotal, not interrogated and/or learned quite young and never changed.

 

[claret09]

i always ride jay in a rotary snaffle and a cavesson noseband. we have done a lot of novice dressage as well as jumping and showing. he routinely sticks his tongue out - downwards. there is no tension it's just a habit. some judges ignore but others are obsessed and constantly write "tongue out" - i refuse point blank to jam his mouth shut just to satisfy some judge.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

I use a flash noseband with my mare but I fit it loosely - main reason is to keep the bit stiller in her mouth and not to keep her mouth shut.

 

[Juniper Jack]

My thoughts on flash nosebands are similar to my thoughts on knee and thigh blocks on saddles -- they are tools to help riders who don't have the time to put in on schooling classical Dressage as the original Dressage riders had. Older dressage photos often don't show a Cavesson at all, and the saddles don't have huge blocks to hold the riders in place.
I think these additions to tack started to be used by amateur riders wanting to move through the levels, and after a while they became the norm, and then the fashion.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[maya2008]

I don’t use nosebands, and we back and bring on a lot of youngsters. At the beginning, some ponies do open their mouth, stick their tongue over, faff around a bit. They always settle. I do choose bits appropriately for the space in their mouths though. Good dentistry and kind hands = settled mouths.

 

[palo1]

I use a flash noseband with my mare but I fit it loosely - main reason is to keep the bit stiller in her mouth and not to keep her mouth shut.

Traditionally, a drop nose band was used to keep a bit stiller, the flash was designed so that you could also use a standing martingale.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Lots of very interesting and informative replies, thanks folks!

 

[sbloom]

A bit of froth is good but sometimes it's pouring from the mouth and flicking everywhere and it's normally because the moseband is too tight.

Because the lower jaw can't move forwards and back so the TMJ is essentially immobilised and the horse can't swallow.

My thoughts on flash nosebands are similar to my thoughts on knee and thigh blocks on saddles -- they are tools to help riders who don't have the time to put in on schooling classical Dressage as the original Dressage riders had. Older dressage photos often don't show a Cavesson at all, and the saddles don't have huge blocks to hold the riders in place.
I think these additions to tack started to be used by amateur riders wanting to move through the levels, and after a while they became the norm, and then the fashion.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

I agree, but will say that I do think smallish blocks are a decent concession for those that can't devote 4 years of their life to being on the lunge. A saddle that suits pelvic and hip shape, allowing correct leg drape under the hip, with an open seat and just small emergency blocks is, to me, the gold standard.

 

[Miss_Millie]

An acquaintance used to ride her horse in a flash, the horse was always frothing and dripping with a tense face. Since taking the flash off, the horse's face has noticeably softened with little to no froth. A much happier looking animal.

This is just one anecdotal example, but a flash is essentially a clamp across the mouth, preventing proper breathing, swallowing and expression. Wearing one must be like having a gag in your mouth at the hygienist - excess saliva builds up from normal breathing being inhibited. I think they're awful honestly and I cringe whenever I see a horse wearing one, whether IRL or in a photo. The Olympic ones are so damn tight, you can see them creasing across that skin.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Traditionally, a drop nose band was used to keep a bit stiller, the flash was designed so that you could also use a standing martingale.

yes I know this, I was just stating what I use it for.

 

[criso]

yes I know this, I was just stating what I use it for.

Is the reason you don't use a drop for this just that it's easier/cheaper to have one noseband you can add or remove the strap that having a drop or s Cavesson you swap between. I ended up with the latter but that's just because I had a horse that hated a Cavesson so bought a matching Drop and now I have a bridle that has both options. Except it doesn't fit current horse anyway.