Flat horse

[Vodkagirly]

One of my horses feels really flat at the moment. Started in August with just having no energy despite being in a good level of work. He was also more spooky than usual.
Took him for a performance work up and found ulcers and 1/10 lame lunging on hard circle. Xrays were all clear, nerve blocks suggested coffin joint.
Ulcers have been treated and scoped clear. Coffin joint medicated but he feels no better. Still tired but spooky. Waiting for call back from vet but where would you go from here?

 

[Melody Grey]

Hind gut supplement?

 

[splashgirl45]

on of the reasons i got my mare tested for cushings was she was lethargic, could he have cushings..

 

[flying_high]

Might be an underlying source of pain / discomfort beyond the minor 1/10th lame on a hard circle (which is pretty minor) e.g. teeth / feet / spine / SI / bilateral lameness not showing up.

As I doubt the 1/10th lameness was the original cause of the ulcers. Ulcers normally appear in response to management failings e.g. long periods without fibre, stress or an underlying pain.

 

[Vodkagirly]

on of the reasons i got my mare tested for cushings was she was lethargic, could he have cushings..

Maybe but he is only 11 so seems young for it

Might be an underlying source of pain / discomfort beyond the minor 1/10th lame on a hard circle (which is pretty minor) e.g. teeth / feet / spine / SI / bilateral lameness not showing up.

As I doubt the 1/10th lameness was the original cause of the ulcers. Ulcers normally appear in response to management failings e.g. long periods without fibre, stress or an underlying pain.

Teeth were recently done, spine checked and no signs of soreness. He isn't left without food as he would just jump the fence to find some! He is normally a very laidback horse hence why the spooking concerns me as very out of character.

 

[Goldenstar]

A full blood screening including looking for the indicators for chronic and acute inflammation.

 

[Mustard]

Heart problem? One of us was increasingly lethargic, and had atrial fibrillation.

 

[Laurac13]

Definitely screen for full bloods could be a liver problem or something else, I hope you find the source of the issue ?

 

[Vodkagirly]

Thanks, I think heart was checked at performance work up but I will double check getting bloods done seem to be next.

 

[Cowpony]

A vet told me recently that the treatment for ulcers could cause hind gut problems, so may be worth exploring that

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Eyes been checked?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Is he on any sort of gut balancer or buffer?

 

[Ratface]

Nothing to add, as others far more qualified/experienced will advise: however, I do hope that you and your horse can find way through this worrying situation. In my experience, a state of "not knowing" is soul-destroying.

 

[J&S]

Many years ago, after a bad epidemic of strangles in the area, my NF mare then got larengitis (sp?). She was low and energyless for some time. My vet came and gave her a B12 injection and this really helped her to to return to normal. Please ignore if innapropriate.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Maybe but he is only 11 so seems young for it



Teeth were recently done, spine checked and no signs of soreness. He isn't left without food as he would just jump the fence to find some! He is normally a very laidback horse hence why the spooking concerns me as very out of character.

Hindsight tells me that my 5 yr old Shire mare was pts undiagnosed after 3+ months of vet involvement must have had Cushings.

 

[sbloom]

Something like the Equi-Biome test might shed some light.

 

[MrsMurs]

if physical issues have been ruled out/being managed, have you considered diet? What are you currently feeding?
My boy had a flat period a couple of years ago, starting in the summer. I was soaking hay as good doer even though grass was frazzled and non existent, and we were competing low level BE. I tried a protein supplement on advice for a friend and not only did his energy return but he lost his bloated belly and muscled up. He was obviously lacking dietary requirement.

 

[sbloom]

if physical issues have been ruled out/being managed, have you considered diet? What are you currently feeding?
My boy had a flat period a couple of years ago, starting in the summer. I was soaking hay as good doer even though grass was frazzled and non existent, and we were competing low level BE. I tried a protein supplement on advice for a friend and not only did his energy return but he lost his bloated belly and muscled up. He was obviously lacking dietary requirement.

I think so many have been put off feeding protein that many horses are actually lacking. Forageplus have some great articles on protein and amino acids.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I think so many have been put off feeding protein that many horses are actually lacking. Forageplus have some great articles on protein and amino acids.

Why are people put off feeding protein? I though sufficient protein for muscle development was a well known requirement?

I try and keep sugar and starch low, but I want sufficient protein.

I feed a 12% protein feed, add the three commonly deficient amino acids and feed micronised linseed as a good protein soyrce

 

[MrsMurs]

i feed the forage plus protein and linseed

 

[sbloom]

Why are people put off feeding protein? I though sufficient protein for muscle development was a well known requirement?

I try and keep sugar and starch low, but I want sufficient protein.

I feed a 12% protein feed, add the three commonly deficient amino acids and feed micronised linseed as a good protein soyrce

I think it goes back to the old old old issue with feed bags - that starch wasn't/isn't listed but protein is, and heating feeds tend to be high in both. Owners forget that most forage is relatively low in protein yet is consumed in large quantities, so a small quantity of high quality protein/amino acids in a bucket feed isn't going to lead to really high levels of protein in the diet. I think it's at least in part a maths issue, that % and actual grammes fed are very different things, and 10% protein in hay that makes up 90% of a diet is very different to 10% in a bucket feed that is 10% of the diet.

https://forageplus.co.uk/protein-in-horse-diets/

 

[spacefaer]

Anaemia?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I possibly would've pulled bloods first, but I usually start with the easiest and cheapest. He could actually be anemic from the ulcers too. Sometimes a deficiency can be easily solved and make a real difference. I also increase vitamin e as the grass dies off/horses are off of grass.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I think it goes back to the old old old issue with feed bags - that starch wasn't/isn't listed but protein is, and heating feeds tend to be high in both. Owners forget that most forage is relatively low in protein yet is consumed in large quantities, so a small quantity of high quality protein/amino acids in a bucket feed isn't going to lead to really high levels of protein in the diet. I think it's at least in part a maths issue, that % and actual grammes fed are very different things, and 10% protein in hay that makes up 90% of a diet is very different to 10% in a bucket feed that is 10% of the diet.

https://forageplus.co.uk/protein-in-horse-diets/

Agree. The protein in the bucket is a small amount compared to that in the forage. But the bucket can often be the easiest way to top up small deficiencies.

 

[sbloom]

Agree. The protein in the bucket is a small amount compared to that in the forage. But the bucket can often be the easiest way to top up small deficiencies.

For most people it's the only way, yet so feared.