Flex boots vs Renegade Viper vs Cavallo

[webble]

Long story short Kiki is now hacking out barefoot happily but for anything I know will be stoney or long distances I tend to still boot him. We used to have scoots but his feet changed shape and they started to twist and/or come off. His feet are wide and short so we are limited with choices. A chat with Hoofbootique later and we have cavallos that stay on and stay in place.

I know I should be happy with this but they are a pain in the backside to get clean when we go anywhere muddy and take forever to dry. I was looking at Flex as these were one of the recommendations, I thought I could have 2 sets of gaiters so one could be drying whilst the others were in use, but I have read some not great reviews on here about them and that has put me off a little. The other option was the vipers but they look like a hollow brittle type plastic that wouldnt help at all with shock absorption and I do like that the cavallos do that to a certain extent. Does anyone have any recent experiences good or bad with either or do I just suck up the cleaning and drying of the cavallo which works for us in all other ways? thanks in advance

 

[ycbm]

My go to boot would always be a Renegade because they are the only boot available where nothing that is holding the boot on and touches a live part of the horse actually moves, so there is absolutely minimal risk of rubbing. They have a wire hinge. They are also easy to fit (once set up). You are right that they are quite hard but perhaps you could put a gel insole in them? They wear extremely well and hose clean.

I know of people with horses with odd size feet who have different coloured boots so they can easily tell them apart. Some people really love the colour range.

If you decide to go for Vipers in a size 4 or a size 3 I can put you in touch with a charity which I gave a pair of each to sell to raise funds. They still have them at the moment. The 4s are
older, already cut down in length, which you will need, and would be a cheap way to try them out.
.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

My pony has very sensitive feet and is in Vipers all round. He never feels the ground through them and we have a long stony track to get off the farm. They are best suited to a more round foot though and they don’t fit my Connie who has the same width but a different shape hoof. Like your horse he fits Cavallo’s much better and has Treks unless I have him shod in Duplos.

Edit to add you can have factory fitted pads in the Vipers but you have to measure up slightly to account for the difference in space in the boot itself.

 

[Cragrat]

Vipers are fantastic. As YCBM says they simply don't rub. I think you can order them with gel insoles welded in. I don't think normal insoles would work, because they coud escape out of the back. They are rock solid and inflexible though, which I really don't like. The grip is good, and never seems to wear at all - I expect them to last the life of my horse!

Swiss Galoppers are a VERY similar design, but a slightly softer, more flexible material. The sizing is a bit odd though - definitely worth a fit kit.

I bought a pair of Flex recently - I love them. They really live up to their name. If they fit well they are like a second skin, and really, really flexible. The straps don't need to be tight, because they fit so closely to the hoof. Ihave yet to see how quickly they wear out, but so far I'm impressed. ETA they have little flexible ridges in the sole to hep with shock absorbtion.

Cavallo's IMHO are fantastic remedial boot, very forgiving in fit, but more a welly than a sports trainer

 

[criso]

I also like the renegades because they are easy to put on and take off and easy to clean and dry.

I got what I call my Cinderella boots on Facebook. My horse has one foot wider than the other. Someone was selling a pair like this, the other way round but you can switch the straps.

 

[GinaGeo]

You’re right that the Renegades possibly aren’t the best for shock absorbing.

However, they stay on, even in wet sucky mud. They give the best grip on the wet ground. Don’t rub. And I find are very unlikely to twist if fitted well. They’re also hard wearing. Mine have done miles and miles on some pretty tough terrain and still wash up like new.

The Flex boots are flexible and do have some shock absorbing properties and you can put pads into them. They are a soft plastic and therefore are much less durable. They can be slippy on wet ground and are more likely to come off at faster speeds than the renegades. Because the soles are thin and flexible some horses still feel rocks through them.

For example I wouldn’t choose them for some of the flinty, rocky hacks we do in Derbyshire.

 

[FitzyFitz]

The main issue is whether they fit the horse properly, true with any boot.

I've had 3 horses in Flex and actually haven't had many issues, I do think they are a bit slippery on wet ground though. I chose them for one horse specifically to minimise concussion (he has sidebone and coffin joint issues) and he has a 6mm wool felt insole as well. I actually don't bother swapping the gaiters although it would be very easy to do, I just scrub them each time and if they're a tad damp next time they go on it's not the end of the world. Forgiving in fit, but the straps sometimes come undone, I cut them shorter on one pony's boots as the mud built up under the strap ends and popped them a few times.

Renegades have never rubbed any of my horses (got 3 in them currently) but I do agree with you about the rigidity of the shell. It's not brittle, but there isn't any flex in it. Lasts forever! You can get gel insoles put in from the factory, I can't imagine other boot insoles would work as they'd escape out the back, or would affect the fit which has to be quite accurate.

I also really like Explora, the size range isn't that wide though so may not fit everything even with the wide range of adjustments. I'd hoped to have my new pony in them but they only fit the hinds, so she has mismatched feet with vipers in front. They are dead easy to clean, no velcro and easy to replace neoprene gaiters although again I hardly ever bother. Unlike the vipers they have a much more flexible sole with independent heels so the hoof capsule can work naturally. Adding pads would be possible but may affect fit as they have to be pretty close fitting though.

 

[Zoeypxo]

I used a full set of cavallos for a year really liked them, struggled with grip on mud/wet grass, but i think alot of boots are the same with that.
I put shoes back on in the end

 

[Landcruiser]

It's all been said really, but just to add, I used Vipers as my performance, competition (TREC)/fun ride boots, and Cavallo as my "every day" mooching about hacking boots, which extended the life of both. (Speaking in the past tense as horse is semi retired and has rock hard feet so don't need either these days).

 

[webble]

It's all been said really, but just to add, I used Vipers as my performance, competition (TREC)/fun ride boots, and Cavallo as my "every day" mooching about hacking boots, which extended the life of both. (Speaking in the past tense as horse is semi retired and has rock hard feet so don't need either these days).

Oh thats a good (but expensive) idea

 

[05jackd]

I have done 1000's of miles in my easyboot epics and I am still a big fan but they are a bit of a faff to put on. I have recently bought 2 pairs of flexboots and in general I am pretty happy. The gaiters are flimsy but they do not seem to rub and they are quick and easy to put on. I have had a couple of issues with straps coming undone but these have been fixed with the 'fixed screws'.

Overall happy enough but still in the testing faze. Flexboots have also just had a 30% sale so I got some new funky colours!

 

[paddy555]

vipers top of the list because of the traction mud/slick grass. Only ones to rival them on grass are scoots and they have too many problems so no way.


number 2 would be gloves. They have everything vipers have re wear etc but lack the traction on mud/grass. If I had to have boots for roads and stony tracks then the gloves may be top of the list as they are the quickest to get on and off.

Bottom of the list, probably not even making the list, would be cavallo. Just not a good enough boot for a working horse. Great probably for just having taken the shoes off for a short while.

 

[expanding_horizon]

My horse fell right over to floor, twice on damp grass in Flex boots. After I had been using them lightly for 4 months. Unfortunate ground conditions and the treads do start to wear down very fast. There was still lots of tread left but not as much as when new. I think flex are poor for grip on wet grass / wet mud.

I think evo / explora / equine fusion all terrains / vipers have good grip on wet grass / slippery mud, as good as can get.

That said I think cavallo trek grip is pretty poor too, so if you are happy with those, you might be ok with flex grip?

(Every hoof boot IME has great grip on roads wet or dry.)

Another option is to have two sets of cavallos, if cavallos working in every other way, and get bridle hooks set up high in your stable so one pair is drip drying and one pair is in use. Can often pick up cheap second pair on FB groups / marketplace / ebay etc.

 

[webble]

My horse fell right over to floor, twice on damp grass in Flex boots. After I had been using them lightly for 4 months. Unfortunate ground conditions and the treads do start to wear down very fast. There was still lots of tread left but not as much as when new. I think flex are poor for grip on wet grass / wet mud.

I think evo / explora / equine fusion all terrains / vipers have good grip on wet grass / slippery mud, as good as can get.

That said I think cavallo trek grip is pretty poor too, so if you are happy with those, you might be ok with flex grip?

(Every hoof boot IME has great grip on roads wet or dry.)

Another option is to have two sets of cavallos, if cavallos working in every other way, and get bridle hooks set up high in your stable so one pair is drip drying and one pair is in use. Can often pick up cheap second pair on FB groups / marketplace / ebay etc.

No I dont find the cavallo grip to be that good either to be honest. My other option was gloves so I might look at those too

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

I have Scoots on one and Flex on the other. The one in Flex boots I've only ever had him in them on tarmac/Roads where the grip has been great, but I do find I do have to make sure they're done up pretty firmly or he stamps in irritation as they start loosening to come off. Now I have that sorted, they're great.

 

[paddy555]

No I dont find the cavallo grip to be that good either to be honest. My other option was gloves so I might look at those too

look at the surfaces you ride on in winter. (summer isn't a problem, in theory it is dry)

the problem surface is mud or slick wet grass especially downhill.
do you have those surfaces?

if you do how fast do you have to ride over them? can you go slowly at your own pace or do you have friends charging along and you have to keep up? Does your horse behave or does it get wound up with others so you have to go at their pace.

the other question then is to look at your surfaces on stony tracks. Renegades and Gloves soles will protect your feet from just about any sort of bruising or sore feet from underneath. Scoots, flex have much thiner soles. Your horse may have nice thick soles and not need extra protection or he may do.
Again how fast do you ride across this sort of surface.

How much of your ride is on stones and how much on grass. If you can work this out for your average weeks riding it may be more obvious what characteristics you need in a boot.

The other point is how well your horse controls slipping. Some are brilliant and some more reticent but they do learn and improve. I remember riding behind a booted horse who slipped everywhere on the mud. I asked the rider how much the horse slipped. According to the rider he didn't. That horse had learnt to deal with slipping and the rider felt nothing.

 

[mustardsmum]

Following this thread. Have scoots but findng them on grass/mud that the grip isnt great. We have some rides where the mud one direction its quite clayey and the other are chalk downs and wet chalk tracks are equally lslippery, so would Vipers or renegades better for grip? Does anyone know if you had size 4 scoots, what the equivalent is in Vipers or Renegades? I love the scoots in Summer but in winter, going downhill is like going skiing and I end up getting off and leading. We have several big hills too! OP, we have one in cavellos and your right, they are pain to dry after a hack.

 

[expanding_horizon]

look at the surfaces you ride on in winter. (summer isn't a problem, in theory it is dry)

the problem surface is mud or slick wet grass especially downhill.
do you have those surfaces?

if you do how fast do you have to ride over them? can you go slowly at your own pace or do you have friends charging along and you have to keep up? Does your horse behave or does it get wound up with others so you have to go at their pace.

the other question then is to look at your surfaces on stony tracks. Renegades and Gloves soles will protect your feet from just about any sort of bruising or sore feet from underneath. Scoots, flex have much thiner soles. Your horse may have nice thick soles and not need extra protection or he may do.
Again how fast do you ride across this sort of surface.

How much of your ride is on stones and how much on grass. If you can work this out for your average weeks riding it may be more obvious what characteristics you need in a boot.

The other point is how well your horse controls slipping. Some are brilliant and some more reticent but they do learn and improve. I remember riding behind a booted horse who slipped everywhere on the mud. I asked the rider how much the horse slipped. According to the rider he didn't. That horse had learnt to deal with slipping and the rider felt nothing.

Lots of truth here. The second time my horse fell over (was on same ride) my horse was in walk on grass but there was slight side camber.

I have amazing old turf and chalk downs to ride on, most of the year it is amazing. But if it rains for 24-48 hours, it will be VERY slippery for next 24-48 hours. Also dew on grass in morning can make slippery at any time of year. It is an ongoing challenge for me. Not riding on any damp / wet grass would really limit my hacking.

BUT my horse has one ride gone down twice with me in hoof boots (flex).

And I do think all hoof boots slip a bit on very wet grass or wet mud.

My horse is better 3 years later than he was, and can slip a bit and remember he has 3 other feet and doesnt need to sit down!!!

My fear is my horse being either exuberant or spooky or scared in hoof boots on wet ground and just going over. I try to mitigate or avoid the ground or avoid the likely scary things / race horses / kites etc. .

Though I have a friend who does long distances at speed over challenging terrain using Cavallo Treks and I have no idea how her horse does it. Everything I have used them on slips on wet ground.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Following this thread. Have scoots but findng them on grass/mud that the grip isnt great. We have some rides where the mud one direction its quite clayey and the other are chalk downs and wet chalk tracks are equally lslippery, so would Vipers or renegades better for grip? Does anyone know if you had size 4 scoots, what the equivalent is in Vipers or Renegades? I love the scoots in Summer but in winter, going downhill is like going skiing and I end up getting off and leading. We have several big hills too! OP, we have one in cavellos and your right, they are pain to dry after a hack.

I am finding Explora magic pretty good grip. I believe (and they look so) vipers are marginally better grip.

 

[planete]

I have Cavallos and just leave them hanging in the field shelter between rides. They are usually still damp when I put them back on. Should I dry them then? I am having no problems with rubbing so far.

 

[Zoeypxo]

I have Cavallos and just leave them hanging in the field shelter between rides. They are usually still damp when I put them back on. Should I dry them then? I am having no problems with rubbing so far.

I used mine damp never had any rubbing, some are more sensitive than others i think

 

[FitzyFitz]

Following this thread. Have scoots but findng them on grass/mud that the grip isnt great. We have some rides where the mud one direction its quite clayey and the other are chalk downs and wet chalk tracks are equally lslippery, so would Vipers or renegades better for grip? Does anyone know if you had size 4 scoots, what the equivalent is in Vipers or Renegades? I love the scoots in Summer but in winter, going downhill is like going skiing and I end up getting off and leading. We have several big hills too! OP, we have one in cavellos and your right, they are pain to dry after a hack.

Sizing charts are available online, renegades have different sizing to renegade vipers, which have a huge variety of length and width fittings. The boots themselves fit slightly different shaped hooves too so it would be worth talking to the company.

Vipers have a more aggressive tread than renegade classics, although I will say that the tread often fills up with mud so it;s not quite as grippy as it looks. That's true of nearly every boot, although I believe explora recently changed their boot soles to try and avoid this, I haven't tried them yet though. I live in west wales so lots of hills and mud, vipers and exploras are ok in slippery slopes, flex are not as good.

I have only used vipers not classics, and found the grip at least as good as a shod horse on most surfaces. Better on tarmac and stones. Just don't go haring round corners in the wet unless you've added studs.

 

[paddy555]

I have only used vipers not classics, and found the grip at least as good as a shod horse on most surfaces. Better on tarmac and stones. Just don't go haring round corners in the wet unless you've added studs.

I found grip to be equal on vipers and classics however the classics wore a lot more quickly than the vipers. They do have different fits and sizing but I would always go for vipers if possible because they last a lot longer.

Following this thread. Have scoots but findng them on grass/mud that the grip isnt great. We have some rides where the mud one direction its quite clayey and the other are chalk downs and wet chalk tracks are equally lslippery, so would Vipers or renegades better for grip? Does anyone know if you had size 4 scoots, what the equivalent is in Vipers or Renegades? I love the scoots in Summer but in winter, going downhill is like going skiing and I end up getting off and leading. We have several big hills too! OP, we have one in cavellos and your right, they are pain to dry after a hack.

I reckon scoots, vipers and renegade classics have more or less equal grip. If you are struggling with scoots then renegades of whatever sort may not be a whole lot better.

not sure if it is not clear but renegade make 2 boots. Renegade vipers and renegade classics (just in case anyone is confused ) as I said above I think both renegades have equal grip.

you can't really cross reference sizes between scoots and rennies. It is a case of get your measurements and then start looking at the renegade sizing charts. I find the vipers fit to the measurements ie they don't come up large or small. As FF said above there is a huge variety of measurement varieties for vipers to suit many feet

 

[paddy555]

.

Though I have a friend who does long distances at speed over challenging terrain using Cavallo Treks and I have no idea how her horse does it. Everything I have used them on slips on wet ground.

I guess she does it because some horses seem to cope slipping wise with any sort of boot and also I suspect because the horse does a LOT of miles and has adapted to them.
Also possibly the rider may be very confident and focusing on the terrain and helping the horse rather than thinking about the boots and will he slip.

I think that what one horse struggles with bootwise another is gaily cantering over the distance in. Also the rider's confidence does come into it.