Flu/tet jabs for very tiny ponies (6hh)

Box_Of_Frogs

Box_Of_Frogs

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The "anorexic" pony I posted about earlier. He was too under weight for vets to give him flu/tet when I first took him on about 3 weeks ago. Now I know his weight accurately, does anyone know whether there are specific problems giving flu/tet to such tiny ponies? I've heard they can have unexpected reactions. But he needs at least the tetanus! Any experience?
 
I would give them at different times until he is bigger.

Just have tetanus first but if you can hold off with that I would too.

Has he had his teeth done? Sorry off topic but can't remember!
 
Dont know know the answer to your question, hiwever i would say not to give him the flu and tetanus combined. Maybe get the tetanus done first, and leave it a few more weeks to get the flu done. Also I think one Flu jab has a different active ingredient to the other and therefore less chance for a reaction.
If I'm honest I'd probably want to hold off the flu jab for a few months until he's more established and recovered.
 
Brilliant. Thanks guys, that's just what I needed to know in order to hold an informed conversation with my wonderful vets. Tetanus only to begin with, and hold fire on that until he's at least condition score 2. Investigate foal serum as a stopgap. Flu only when he's a lot stronger and even then, separately from tet. Yes, he's had his teeth gently rasped - he found it all a bit overwhelming and had a tiny panic attack. But I am worried still because he just doesn't gain weight as I'd expect him to. Out all day on grass. In at night with haylage, catfood bowl of Build and Glow in the hopes he'll eat it one day, bucket of Readigrass just in case, broken up slice of bread with honey dribbled over it. Has double handful pasture nuts + sprinkle mare & foal mix for breakfast, same in field at midday, same for tea. For overnight, he's now got a dog feed-ball and he has double handful pasture nuts in there. (He loves it!). Finish his 5 days Panacur Guard Sunday - heart in mouth doing that because apparently one of the commonest causes of death in tiny ponies is overdosing on wormers. When we get next bit of sunshine, I'll get some more pix x
 
Almost Impossible to overdose a pony on pans cut as it has such a wide therapeutic index. And Panacur is a little less likely to kill all the worms at the exact same time due to it being a 5day wormer (-and due in part to the resistance of some worms to fenbendazole) so hopefully should not cause a hypersensitivity reaction. Good to hear he's making some progress.
 
Sorry if i missed out any updates but did you rule out him being a dwarf? If not this could explain his resistance to putting on weight.
I have mine flu and tetanus in one jab. Both my ponies are under 33" and touch wood have never had any adverse reactions to any injections. However i understand your concern as he is so thin :(
 
Stinkbomb, I'm pretty sure he's a dwarf shetland, but how would I know? Everything about him is perfectly scaled if you know what I mean. He doesn't have short legs and a long body or anything like that. He's 26" tall and it is very difficult to get him to eat and to put on weight. I think he doesn't recognise things as food. I think he's been kept in a kitchen and fed bread and scraps. He'll eat bread (and I'm now dribbling honey over it as per D&H specialist advice) but with tiny bits of carrot and apple, he just holds it in his lips for a second or so then lets it drop. He doesn't seem to have an appetite or to know what it feels like to be full - or empty come to that! My understanding is that there are similarities with human anorexia, because he's been effectively starved for most of his life. But it could also be a metabolic problem associated with his miniaturisation. His coat is non-standard too. No outer coat, just masses of thick fluffy under-coat which made everyone think he was a yearling, but he's 3.5yrs old from teeth. I don't know if he'll grow a proper coat when fed properly or, again, if it's a metabolic disorder. He was at a different rescue place for 3 months before I had him and he stayed resolutely at condition score 1 all the time he was there. I've got him to about a condition 1.5 in about a month so that's some progress at least. But it's hard to tell under his massive fluffy coat and sometimes he seems to go back a few steps before picking up again. He's a total poppet so hasn't been abused in the way most people would understand it, but as he gets fitter, he so desperately wants to be with other horses - he doesn't know he's only 26 inches tall, but finding him a small companion that wouldn't swell up and explode on the feeding regime he needs is a real, horrendous challenge.

Any experiences welcomed, or ideas for ways to get calories into him or ways to give him the safe horsey company he so desperately needs xxxxx
 
Sometimes its very difficult to tell whether he is a true dwarf of not. A small miniature is not necessarily a dwarf. A horse can display minimal characteristics or characrteristics that make it soo obvious its a dwarf. Sometimes its really hard to tell and you can only be sure once they have matured. If he is a dwarf this could explain why he is not putting on weight. Dwarfs insides often are not in the right place and they are not able to digest food as a normal horse. Personally i have no experience of dwarfs but i know people who have them.

If you are on facebook there is a closed page called mini horse sales. Its a kind of forum basically for mini enthusiasts. if you ask to join you could ask on there if anyone has any idea re feed etc..There are so many very experienced people on there who will be able to help. Also there is Little beginnings:-
http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/

Its American but there is a section where you can talk about dwarfs and ask advice from John Eberth. He is the most experienced man in miniatures and dwarfism ( owns little kings ranch ) and has done lots of research into the matter. You will see from there its a delicate subject within miniature people. Noone else will be able to reply to your thread except John and once he has answered your question the thread will be closed.
It might be worth a try and asking him some advice? Although because its American they might not be able to offer feed advice as in specific makes as they ahve different than us but might be able to give you good advice on nutritional analysis of foods required.
 
If you have a sane bigger horse just turn out with that and bring in for feeds? My 8"2s favourite companion is a 17"2 - they chase each other!! He doesn't worry he is small, just make sure they are not notorious kickers :) my 12hh and him used to share a stable :) might help him eat too if he has company as will reduce stress and set an example to follow. Alternatively as with my mini, entertain his belief e is a dog and train him a a sheep dog haha :)
 
Thanks Stinkbomb. Wow! It IS a sensitive subject isn't it? From this source I've got a couple more clues in my search but I suspect only genetic testing would truly answer my question. I'm happy to stick with empirical methods though. The other Forum seems to suggest that a parrot mouth and digestive problems MIGHT be an indication of dwarfism. But they might also be the outcome of poor breeding! Little Robbie has a barely noticeable parrot mouth and there's a big question mark over his digestion. He has no sign of limb deformities but that might be more by luck than anything else. He's been out with my 2 rescued shetlands today and I have to say he has no social skills whatsoever, even though he's delighted to have equine company. It does make me wonder whether he was kept in someone's kitchen BECAUSE he was so tiny, had digestive problems and had no social skills or being kept in someone's kitchen LED to him having no social skills and digestive problems. My search goes on. He's finished his Panacur Guard with no apparent ill effects. His fluffy coat is coming out in handfuls - god knows what will grow back in its place! He's getting quite cheeky which is a nice sign, though he has absolutely no ground manners at all, almost certainly because noone's bothered to teach him any! Soon fix that! He can be a bit nippy when either frustrated or with someone he knows. Makes me wonder if the blood test to check for rig needs to be repeated with altered paramaters to reflect his (?) dwarfism. Could be just a young geldings natural "boy-games". He's a real puzzle but rest assured is safe forever now and I'm looking into registering him with PAT (Pets as Therapy) because there must be loads of people who would respond to a tiny, tiny horse rather than a cat or dog. I'm also in the planning stages with a friend who's a school teacher and who wants him to come and "talk" to her class of juniors. Will post anything interesting, groundbreaking or exciting. Or sad. Thanks again everyone xxx
 
In the US where minis are very popular, they have reported big problems with ivermectin wormers. Apparently you have to be very careful to weigh them first and then dose appropriately. Deaths have been reported and seizures too. I recommend looking on the website horseadvice.com which is based in the US. Loads of really useful info in the forums there.
 
fatpiggy said:
In the US where minis are very popular, they have reported big problems with ivermectin wormers. Apparently you have to be very careful to weigh them first and then dose appropriately. Deaths have been reported and seizures too. I recommend looking on the website horseadvice.com which is based in the US. Loads of really useful info in the forums there.
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It is not Ivermectin but MOXIDECTIN that must NOT be given to minis. The brand name is Quest
I give flu/tet jabs to my minis which isn't a problem, I would be very careful to give it to a horse of any size in such a bad condition though.
Minis do really well on Alfalfa as it is high in protein and soothing on their tummies. Have you thought about Ulcers? minis are very prone to stress which causes ulcers, the signs are lack of appetite, bloated bellies, depressed or grumpy behaviour.
Keep us updated, it sounds like he is slowly improving with you.
 
on the subject of a companion how about a sheep and a couple of lambs, no worry about lami unlike another small pony. do you know a farmer you could borrow a couple from?
 
minime said:
It is not Ivermectin but MOXIDECTIN that must NOT be given to minis. The brand name is Quest
I give flu/tet jabs to my minis which isn't a problem, I would be very careful to give it to a horse of any size in such a bad condition though.
Minis do really well on Alfalfa as it is high in protein and soothing on their tummies. Have you thought about Ulcers? minis are very prone to stress which causes ulcers, the signs are lack of appetite, bloated bellies, depressed or grumpy behaviour.
Keep us updated, it sounds like he is slowly improving with you.
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Ditto x
 
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