Fluctuating rider weight: harmful to the horse?

[Chinchilla]

Just pondering really, generally it seems to be accepted in the UK that rider+tack should not exceed 15% of the horse's weight (though I have seen some instances of 20% being adhered to instead).
But is it potentially going to harm the horse if the rider's weight fluctuates significantly from ride to ride, even if it doesn't exceed the aforementioned 15% limit?
Must admit I can't think of many scenarios where this would happen, besides different riders.
I wouldn't think so - unless a horse had one weight of rider for a very long time, then abruptly got a new rider - but what it the rider(s)' weight changed by a fair amount every ride?

What it have any effect on the horse/tack at all?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Riding school horses seem to manage to accommodate changing weights without problems.

 

[GTRJazz]

The whole rider weight thing annoys me and I hope it does not put larger people off of enjoying their horse. Esp Dressage most do not ride at a high level and probably only ride for a couple of hours a week.

 

[Surbie]

Doesn't it also depend a lot on how fit the horse is, what they are being asked to do and how balanced the rider/well-fitting the tack, as well as how much the rider and tack weighs?

If you use RDA as an example, these horses may have their max weight allowance set lower than 15%, in part because some of them can be walk-only and either older or not that fit, and some because they are used a lot or for riders who can be significantly unbalanced, or both/much of the above etc.

 

[ozpoz]

It would have an effect on the horse if the rider didn’t!fit the saddle or was too heavy for the horse. In the rider weight pilot study presented at the Saddle Research Trust conference the horses showed pain and temporary lamesness with the very heavy rider-and the heavy rider.

 

[HashRouge]

The whole rider weight thing annoys me and I hope it does not put larger people off of enjoying their horse. Esp Dressage most do not ride at a high level and probably only ride for a couple of hours a week.

It's not about protecting the rider's feelings, it's about protecting the horse's health and wellbeing. I'll leave you to guess which I think is most important...!

 

[GTRJazz]

It's not about protecting the rider's feelings, it's about protecting the horse's health and wellbeing. I'll leave you to guess which I think is most important...!

And me as well, but no rider no horse and with the current excess of horses in the market not always a good outcome at sale. I know a 15h medium cob that is still going strong after many years with a rider that would have been 15 stone and liked to jump.
People with a high BFI end up getting bullied over this, taller more athletic riders that can weigh more that a five foot person who is over weight for their size.

 

[Red-1]

I think if it is managed then it does not matter.

When I shared Charlie Horse with OH he was literally double my weight (I was very skinny at the time). He had a well fitting saddle, but it did have a slightly different numnah set up as it did fit differently.

Also, when Charles was fit for a 2 hour ride for me, you would not presume he was fit for a 2 hour ride with OH. Conversely, when I was eventing Charlie and my own horse too, I would get the other one fit and OH would ride Charles daily for up to 2 hours, including all his canter work. When I rode him it was wonderful, there was fitness to spare!

I would say that the need for conditioning to the weight he had to carry would not just be for general fitness though, it would be his back musculature, his bones, tendons etc.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Saddle fit could be an issue. A smaller rider might be swimming around in and therefore become unbalanced in a saddle which fits the larger rider, although the saddle technically correctly fits the horse.

Conversely, a rider who is too large to fit the horse's currently fitted saddle but still wedges their butt in it will also cause imbalance and discomfort to the horse.

A shared horse may therefore need more than one saddle to accommodate two or more differently sized riders.

 

[Goldenstar]

The whole rider weight thing annoys me and I hope it does not put larger people off of enjoying their horse. Esp Dressage most do not ride at a high level and probably only ride for a couple of hours a week.

No need for heavier people to not enjoy riding horses it just has to be on a horse big enough to carry there weight .
But going in a school in a dressage situation at a low level is damaging to the horse if the horse is not the correct size and conformation to carry the rider .
I hope people who are too heavy for the horses they ride do get told it’s unacceptable because if I had to choose of the comfort and welfare of the horse I would choose the horse over the riders feelings every time .
It’s a choice to ride a too small horse and it’s a bad choice .

 

[Goldenstar]

On OPs thoughts about different riders H is regularly ridden by four riders all different weights it does not appear bother him he does have two saddles as I hate using MrGS’s saddle .

 

[Sukistokes2]

It would have to be about different riders riding , no one' persons weight changes overnight, the difference would be a pound or so. When I rode Sunday I weighed pretty much the same as I did Saturday, used the same tack too, that's because my saddle is fitted to the horse, so I would not change it to another without it being checked. He is ridden by a professional rider but she is a slip of a thing so I suspect she causes him less stain then me. I would be more worried about unbalanced novices riding then a heavier person, as long as the person is within the weight range for the horse. Percentage weight is difficult because it does not take into account what the horse is expected to do and the health of the animal. I currently hack on my boy, until he is older and has more fitness, muscle and strength I would not want someone my size bombing him about or jumping him. Its about common sense, horses for courses and people being honest. Riding school horses and hirelings have to cope and I suppose such is life.

 

[windand rain]

I dont think it makes much difference if the horse is mature and muscled evenly. I do think that long term a heavier balanced rider does far less damage than a series of unbalanced light weight riders that is not to say anyone should be too heavy for the horse. Perception of who is too heavy can be a bit off too as someone who looks fat may well be lighter than someone with a huge muscle mass

 

[JFTDWS]

I would say that the need for conditioning to the weight he had to carry would not just be for general fitness though, it would be his back musculature, his bones, tendons etc.

Conditioning, saddle fit, maturity / fitness / conformation / suitability to carry weight - certainly all factors in this sort of debate. % weight is a fairly rubbish guide, because too many idiots go by weight tape, or think their fat, unfit thug can carry more

I don't think fluctuations in weight are significant - provided the caveats above apply.

Rider weight is such a bugger of a thing to debate because you'd think common sense would apply - but common sense isn't so common, and idiots abound in the horse world, on both sides of the argument.

 

[ozpoz]

I do think that long term a heavier balanced rider does far less damage than a series of unbalanced light weight riders that is not to say anyone should be too heavy for the horse.

The Rider Weight pilot study found the opposite to be true, WindandRain.
Rider Weight was the most influential factor.

 

[ester]

But the pilot study had rather a lot of flaws to be drawing many conclusions from, it being just a pilot.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question Chincilla, ie is it rider weight fluctuating assuming all other things equal, because the only way rider weight is going to change very quickly is if the riders are different.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Whenever people talk about rider weight, I always think back to the article I read in the Arabian Magazine.

Link to discussion about the article here - https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...d-weight-carrying-tests.670461/#post-12528620

It does show that % of weight carried is not the whole story. Breed and speed travelled also play a part.

 

[ozpoz]

Given the collective skills of the people who were conducting it and the complexity of the subject, which has discouraged people for years, I wouldn't call it flawed. It certainly was well received by the international delegates in December, mostly professionals.

It clearly was limited to the data collected but what it did show up was very interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the next phase.

 

[windand rain]

Be interesting read. I based my judgement on thermal imaging this shows quite clearly that a heavy balanced rider causes less damage than a wobbly light weight novice rider
just read it it is very flawed as only 6 riders and 4 horses were used. and it states that BMI did not play a part as BMI of the moderate weight rider was the same as the heavy rider which to me makes nonsense of the whole experiment

 

[ozpoz]

Thermal imagining measures the skin, I think, so yes, that would make sense.
I think the study was aiming to find out the effects of weight on the musculoskeletal system. The whole presentation is supposed to be available to view in the next few months.

 

[Red-1]

OH had a loan horse one summer, a 20yo plus horse who had been ill the year before (poisoned) and had just been in a stable for 6 months as he was so ill and needed to recover (nearly died- prior to us knowing him).

OH carefully brought it back to work, starting with paddock rest, in hand work, short straight line hacks and built it up to schooling sessions, jumping, hill work at a whoopiedoo canter and even a show.

He had the horse for 6 months and at the end the horse looked 10 years younger and was going great guns, he handed to loan to a slip of a girl. The tack stayed the same, the horse was in work and he had never once had a saddle sore.

Within a few weeks the new rider/loaner ran into problems. She was not such a balanced rider and kind of lolled at the back of the saddle with her legs forwards. It was only to do an hour gentle hacking a few times a week, so as she was only 8st wet through everyone though she would be OK.

Nope, first of all the horse got antsy, then he rubbed his skin, then he had an actual sore.

So, I KNOW a heavier, educated and balanced rider causes less issue than a non educated, unbalanced slip of a rider.

 

[ester]

I'd like to see the full results too, and not the media take (which wasn't very good at saying how heavy the two heaviest riders used were).
By flawed I mostly mean that the horses kept their own saddles and we know how important saddle fit is for rider distribution too, in addition to the really low numbers used.
All science is flawed, prelim studies even more so, in some ways it is rather the point of them .

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd like to see the full results too, and not the media take (which wasn't very good at saying how heavy the two heaviest riders used were).
By flawed I mostly mean that the horses kept their own saddles and we know how important saddle fit is for rider distribution too, in addition to the really low numbers used.
All science is flawed, prelim studies even more so, in some ways it is rather the point of them .

^ This. To say a piece of research is flawed is not to say it's worthless, or will not be of use to any interested parties. It just needs to be taken in its context and within the limitations of its scope - and as I recall there was no element of comparing weight and unbalanced lighter riders - it was purely an investigation into the effects on the musculoskeletal system of different weights of riders.