Flying changes??

[You Wont Forget Me]

Hi, i have a TB X WB 16.2 who's 5 this year, he's coming along really well with his schooling and jumping but one thing we cant master is flying changes I dont know if its me or him but they are just seeming impossible, could you please give me some advice on how to go about doing them (baring in mind he's still a baby) Thanks

 

[-Cadence-]

I know nothing about jumping, if you want changes for jumping you should probably ignore me and I've never jumped more than about 6 inches

To get anywhere, first you need to make sure that the canter and counter canter are really established, with clear suspension and elevation between the phases. Some horses, who haven't been schooled well or whose riders don't know what a canter should feel like will canter and counter-canter in a four beat, with no suspension. This is not a correct canter, and one which will not produce a quality change, before you start thinking about changes, make sure you've got this right.

If you have an established canter, I'd start by doing true canter-walk- true canter transitions around the arena until they are always prompt, really get him listening to your aid and confident with what you're asking. Then move onto true canter-walk-true canter a serpentine or diagonal lines (I mean pick up left lead canter, cross arena and ask for walk at the center line, change bend , and pick up right lead promptly). When this exercise is confirmed, do same on diagonal line; left lead canter at A, at F or P cross diagonal, transition to walk just before X, pick up right lead promptly.

At this point, your horse should be very responsive to the canter aids, whether they are for true or counter canter. But before you go to try the flying change, test him along the long side of the arena; pick up true canter and make a transition to walk, pick up the either the true of counter canter. Keep changing the pattern so she won't know which lead you'll ask for, and when he's completely tuned to your aids, he's ready for the flying change.

Now go back to the serpentine and repeat the canter, walk, canter exercise a couple of times, so he has it fresh in her mind. Then do the same figure but ask for the flying change in exactly the same place as before. If he gets a little panicky, don't overreact. Just calmly pick up the true canter, come around and ask again. It may take a several tries to get the right reaction, but reward any attempt to change in the air and make it a positive experience.

 

[PC Steele]

If you want to teach him flying changes for jumping then the easiest way Ive found is over a pole on the ground. If you want dressage changes then unless you are experienced in doing them/teaching them to horses then I would get someone experienced to do it for you. They require alot of skill and timing so need to be taught by a rider experienced in this movement. I have an advanced dressage gelding and I got my instructor to teach him changes.

 

[You Wont Forget Me]

Flying changes for on the flat Thanks -Cadence- thats what i have been doing with him, sorry should have said, we've been doing it a lot but he just wont change at all, one of my instructors said to ask him for it and if he didnt change then keep him going so he's unbalanced and has to change but even that doesnt work, i know how to do them just cant seem to make it work on him

 

[monkeymad]

My horse has only really learnt to do proper flying changes this year - shes 9!! She would automatically do them when jumping 9 times out 10 (but not always) and that was eventing at BE novice level. But on the flat she had a total blank about doing them, her counter canter was always good, but she just couldn't understand what I wanted her to do even when I used a pole and bought her back to trot over it to change her leg etc. I never pushed it with her, because she is a very sweet horse and she got very upset cos she knew she wasn't doing what I wanted and really just couldn't work out what it was. I think its only now that she's really strong enough thro her back (she's an ex-racer) to do them, and she seems really chuffed with herself!!

 

[TheEquineOak]

I know nothing about jumping, if you want changes for jumping you should probably ignore me and I've never jumped more than about 6 inches

To get anywhere, first you need to make sure that the canter and counter canter are really established, with clear suspension and elevation between the phases. Some horses, who haven't been schooled well or whose riders don't know what a canter should feel like will canter and counter-canter in a four beat, with no suspension. This is not a correct canter, and one which will not produce a quality change, before you start thinking about changes, make sure you've got this right.

If you have an established canter, I'd start by doing true canter-walk- true canter transitions around the arena until they are always prompt, really get him listening to your aid and confident with what you're asking. Then move onto true canter-walk-true canter a serpentine or diagonal lines (I mean pick up left lead canter, cross arena and ask for walk at the center line, change bend , and pick up right lead promptly). When this exercise is confirmed, do same on diagonal line; left lead canter at A, at F or P cross diagonal, transition to walk just before X, pick up right lead promptly.

At this point, your horse should be very responsive to the canter aids, whether they are for true or counter canter. But before you go to try the flying change, test him along the long side of the arena; pick up true canter and make a transition to walk, pick up the either the true of counter canter. Keep changing the pattern so she won't know which lead you'll ask for, and when he's completely tuned to your aids, he's ready for the flying change.

Now go back to the serpentine and repeat the canter, walk, canter exercise a couple of times, so he has it fresh in her mind. Then do the same figure but ask for the flying change in exactly the same place as before. If he gets a little panicky, don't overreact. Just calmly pick up the true canter, come around and ask again. It may take a several tries to get the right reaction, but reward any attempt to change in the air and make it a positive experience.

what she said!!

My 7yo will change when jumping but not on the flat... we'll get there eventually

 

[Booboos]

Canter-walk-canter until you can decrease the number of walk strides to one and then none is one of the common ways I have been told about (never taught a horse flying changes myself, so none of this is my experience just what my instructors have said to work on!!!), but as mentioned already I have also been told that although the regular rider can prepare the horse, you need an experienced rider to actually teach them.

 

[martlin]

with a 5 year old, I would start very simple, on a figure of eight using the whole school, with a transition to trot or walk in the middle; then progress to changing the leg over a pole on the ground. A useful tip is to start the changes in a 2 point (forward) seat, taking weight of the horse's back and allowing a flowing change Just change your canter aids over the pole and Bob's yer uncle
Also, spilt the change into small pieces, so you are cantering on the left lead, with clear aids, keeping a bend, you get onto the diagonal and straighten for a few strides, the over the pole apply right canter aids and ask for a bend.

that's coming from a showjumper, who believes that a 5 yo is too young for proper, established counter canter and ''dressage'' flying changes.

Hope that made any sense at all, I need more caffeine.

 

[JFTDWS]

Er, apologies for showing my ignorance and all, but could Cadence (or anyone) elaborate on the idea of a four beat canter - you have me very worried about whether or not I can recognise a "true" canter

 

[jcwh]

mine is rising 5 this year. she does changes (sometimes disunites but 8/10 she gets it right)
but with EACH change, EVERY change, she throws a huge buck.
BUT she changes
we're trying to get rid of the buck...

 

[picolenicole]

My cob can do flying changes, he started when he was just about 5!! No really he can, he has lernt himself how to do them. It's really not that helpful as I don't know how to "ask" for them and he is what I call "left footed". He always leads with the left, so when we get the right take off on right rein he will do about 5 strides then do a flying change to the left!!!! If only I knew what I was doing he would do a brill dressage test

Sorry can't help with getting them to lern how to do it, but I will watch this post. X

 

[aimeetb]

Er, apologies for showing my ignorance and all, but could Cadence (or anyone) elaborate on the idea of a four beat canter - you have me very worried about whether or not I can recognise a "true" canter

I am not nearly as experienced as most on here but I would explain this as:

A proper canter being 3 beats if you think of the horse striking off with its outside hind (1st beat), followed by both inside hind and outside fore landing at the same time (2nd beat) then leading with the inside fore (3rd beat) with a moment of suspension before the cycle starts again. Sometimes when the horse lacks impulsion and for other reasons perhaps balance as with an inexperienced hourse doing counter canter the horse makes will split the second beat placing the inside hind and outside fore on the floor at different times the pace gets strucg out and you lose the moment of suspension.

Prepares to be corrected

xxx

 

[Booboos]

I am not nearly as experienced as most on here but I would explain this as:

A proper canter being 3 beats if you think of the horse striking off with its outside hind (1st beat), followed by both inside hind and outside fore landing at the same time (2nd beat) then leading with the inside fore (3rd beat) with a moment of suspension before the cycle starts again. Sometimes when the horse lacks impulsion and for other reasons perhaps balance as with an inexperienced hourse doing counter canter the horse makes will split the second beat placing the inside hind and outside fore on the floor at different times the pace gets strucg out and you lose the moment of suspension.

Prepares to be corrected

xxx

Yes, this is what I understand it to be as well. Rather than 3 beat the canter becomes a 4 beat movement. It can be a horse issue, but very often it's a rider created problem if the rider holds the horse back too much and doesn't create enough impulsion. I have seen people claim to do a collected canter when in fact they are just stopping the horse from moving properly and causing a 4 beat canter.

 

[JFTDWS]

A proper canter being 3 beats if you think of the horse striking off with its outside hind (1st beat), followed by both inside hind and outside fore landing at the same time (2nd beat) then leading with the inside fore (3rd beat) with a moment of suspension before the cycle starts again. Sometimes when the horse lacks impulsion and for other reasons perhaps balance as with an inexperienced hourse doing counter canter the horse makes will split the second beat placing the inside hind and outside fore on the floor at different times the pace gets strucg out and you lose the moment of suspension.

xxx

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation - the "fourth" beat comes from the "splitting" of the outside fore / inside hind pair, which land seperately, at the expense of the suspension phase... That makes sense (and I did just find myself staring at video footage of mine to see if I was screwing them up )

 

[You Wont Forget Me]

with a 5 year old, I would start very simple, on a figure of eight using the whole school, with a transition to trot or walk in the middle; then progress to changing the leg over a pole on the ground. A useful tip is to start the changes in a 2 point (forward) seat, taking weight of the horse's back and allowing a flowing change Just change your canter aids over the pole and Bob's yer uncle
Also, spilt the change into small pieces, so you are cantering on the left lead, with clear aids, keeping a bend, you get onto the diagonal and straighten for a few strides, the over the pole apply right canter aids and ask for a bend.

that's coming from a showjumper, who believes that a 5 yo is too young for proper, established counter canter and ''dressage'' flying changes.

Hope that made any sense at all, I need more caffeine.

Thanks, im sure this will deffinatly work, i shall certinly give it a try