Flying changes

[Identityincrisis]

Help! I’m in flying changes hell!!

I have an Arab who is very clever and picks things up so quickly but we’re just not getting FC’s! It probably doesn’t help that I’ve never trained a horse to do them but I’ve tried all sorts of methods and nothing ‘sticks’ i practice for a few weeks then leave it as I’m sure he must get frustrated.

The below are things I’ve tried over the last year and a half

I’ve tried -

Counter canter (not great at this)

Just changing direction and waiting for the change to happen, it doesn’t.

A pole on the ground (best results so far)

Canter walk canter (getting shorter walk steps but still no offer)

What are your tips and tricks, pleeeease!!

 

[ihatework]

If your CC isn’t good but then nothing is happening when you change direction- what is going on there?

How good is the basic canter quality? Straight, expressive, controlled off the seat? If not start there.

Then persist with the Cc simple changes and also try from HP

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Do not use a pole. Do not. It creates a late behind change 99.9% of the time and those can be a b*tch to fix. Maybe I'm just scarred mentally from having to fix late behind changes and also a horse that learned over a pole. There are so many other ways. If you don't care or don't want a proper change (for dressage, mainly), then it's whatever.

I just popped in here quickly, so I can try to add more later.

I've fixed late behind changes and horses that have felt VERY comfortable in the counter canter. I've even come to HHO baffled by my last one a time or two!

 

[Identityincrisis]

In cc he still goes back to trot.

His canter has improved hugely recently, i knew it wasn’t strong enough previously but just wanted to try it.

Sorry, what is hp?!

@CanteringCarrot I want to do as much as we can so i would rather they be correct, if you could come back later and give a couple of tips, I’d be hugely grateful.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I've got 2 Arab's both will school nicely learn quickly but Arabi just wouldn't do them and I could never get him to do counter canter either, even my dressage trainer tried it was like he just thought no this is wrong so I gave up.

Louis on the other hand was easy and can counter canter just as balanced as on the right leg and will often offer you a change if he feels like it.

I agree with above the canter has to be a good quality this is why I think Arabi struggled it's never been as good as louis.

I'm sure we did lots of collection in canter it gets them to sit from behind and get strong so they are able to change more easily I would get that good first for now.

Have you got an instructor?

 

[daffy44]

I totally agree that if you want flying changes correct enough for a dressage test, do not use a pole. Asking for the change over pole encourages the horse to change in front first and therefore be late behind, so you are in effect, training in a problem, so dont make life more difficult for yourself and your horse.

Generally, before you start to ask for flying changes you need to have a good quality of canter, straightness and nice reactive canter transitions from a small light aid, because basically a flying change is just another canter transition. The most useful advice I can give online is to get a really good, experienced instructor who will know you and your horse and is therefore best placed to help you.

 

[Identityincrisis]

It’s odd that they’re so clever but just don’t get it! He seems to get stressed by cc so his head comes up, back drops and he paddles.

Yeah, you’re all right, his canter still needs to improve and it will get there, he’s just taken a long time (3 years) to strengthen up as he was a very scrawny 5 year old when I got him and had only been sat on so I feel he’s always been behind his contemporaries, which is fine as I’m happy to take it slowly

 

[Identityincrisis]

I have an instructor, who is great, but just didn’t seem too interested in the FC.

I have another instructor who is pure dressage who i will ask to help nxt time i see her

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It’s odd that they’re so clever but just don’t get it! He seems to get stressed by cc so his head comes up, back drops and he paddles.

Yeah, you’re all right, his canter still needs to improve and it will get there, he’s just taken a long time (3 years) to strengthen up as he was a very scrawny 5 year old when I got him and had only been sat on so I feel he’s always been behind his contemporaries, which is fine as I’m happy to take it slowly

They are so clever Louis would get stroppy when you first taught him something it was like he was angry with himself for not knowing, then after a few times he would get it and and absolutely love his new move.

When I first got Louis he only had 1 gear in each gait really he couldn't collect or extend properly so we worked on that for ages, it really helps them become more agile and capable of doing more, lateral work will also help we did shoulder in haunches in turn on the forehand, also try leg yielding in canter even just a few strides to start with.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have an instructor, who is great, but just didn’t seem too interested in the FC.

I have another instructor who is pure dressage who i will ask to help nxt time i see her

My dressage trainer was brilliant I don't use him anymore as both of mine now need a slower easier life and he was very full on.

 

[Identityincrisis]

They are so clever Louis would get stroppy when you first taught him something it was like he was angry with himself for not knowing, then after a few times he would get it and and absolutely love his new move.

When I first got Louis he only had 1 gear in each gait really he couldn't collect or extend properly so we worked on that for ages, it really helps them become more agile and capable of doing more, lateral work will also help we did shoulder in haunches in turn on the forehand, also try leg yielding in canter even just a few strides to start with.

Haha yes!! Shakir gets angry sometimes when he finds something he can’t do but i LOVE their attitudes, I’m head over heels with the breed.

He offered the most amazing extended trot out hacking last week, he’d never offered it before and would rather canter, i was so shocked but he’s obviously getting stronger . We do loads of lateral work and have just introduced canter leg yield

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Haha yes!! Shakir gets angry sometimes when he finds something he can’t do but i LOVE their attitudes, I’m head over heels with the breed.

He offered the most amazing extended trot out hacking last week, he’d never offered it before and would rather canter, i was so shocked but he’s obviously getting stronger . We do loads of lateral work and have just introduced canter leg yield

I love them they make great riding horses I love how light they are in the hand and just glide along effortlessly

 

[Hallo2012]

i would guess the trainer possibly isnt interested in the FC as the horse isnt ready...........

he needs to have a good balanced reliable counter canter (incl round a turn) and be able to pick up walk to true canter and walk to counter canter before you start on FC

 

[DressageCob]

If he's got a good brain but isn't getting this, then I would guess that he's not ready.

You need to have a really good, stable canter before you can ask for them. If you can't keep the counter canter then I suspect the canter in general isn't good enough. They have to be able to sit in the canter to get it correct.

His head coming up and back dropping in the counter canter suggests a lack of strength and balance. I would expect a decent instructor to work on those basic requirements before pressing ahead with the flying changes.

My horse chucks in a change when he's unbalanced or I've let the quarters drift in but in terms of actually teaching them on demand, we've barely started because the basic canter wasn't there. We've done loads of work on the counter canter, simple changes, collected canter to help with the strength and that feeling of sitting and waiting. I've asked for a change having done a half 10m circle, HP to the track and then change, and it has come off and now I've left it again. I don't think we are at the point of being able to really dig into getting them correct, and I don't want to create a situation where he anticipates a change every time I'm an inch out of alignment

 

[ycbm]

A GP dressage rider taught me this way. Canter a10m half circle to the centre line and head straight for the fence. A few metres from the fence change the bend into the new lead and ask for the change. Can work best if you don't allow the full length of the arena before the half circle.

This one I'm told is not correct, but it works for some. Canter a half meter circle at the end and half pass back to the track, change the bend at the track and ask for the new lead.

Or he may just not be strong enough yet as others have said.
.

 

[SEL]

I used to teach it walk to canter to walk to canter on the other lead. Gradually reduce the walk.

 

[Hallo2012]

https://uk01.z.antigena.com/l/EyLr8...p8ZVlMPE1uWr82VJmLG5VWwHLckLOBkXDSUZPgJXrrOop

this is my 5yo playing with changes yesterday-you can see how balanced the counter canter is and whilst i dont think you need a PERFECT counter canter you do need a degree of balance.

 

[Flying_Form]

Help! I’m in flying changes hell!!

I have an Arab who is very clever and picks things up so quickly but we’re just not getting FC’s! It probably doesn’t help that I’ve never trained a horse to do them but I’ve tried all sorts of methods and nothing ‘sticks’ i practice for a few weeks then leave it as I’m sure he must get frustrated.

The below are things I’ve tried over the last year and a half

I’ve tried -

Counter canter (not great at this)

Just changing direction and waiting for the change to happen, it doesn’t.

A pole on the ground (best results so far)

Canter walk canter (getting shorter walk steps but still no offer)

What are your tips and tricks, pleeeease!!

This has worked magic for me with teaching youngsters - it will be hard for me to describe so I’ll include a picture and if you have any questions do ask.

You basically want to get four poles, place two poles as a tunnel horizontally at B (wide enough for your horse to go through) leaving about two metres away from the edge of the arena, and do the same at E (see pictures attached - purple lines are the poles).

Go large and get a forward canter with lots of impulsion. Let’s say you’re on the right rein wanting to change to left lead canter - to ask for the change, turn into your tunnel at E and cross the centre towards the second tunnel and prepare to change the rein/leg. Put on lots of leg, then just before you get to your second tunnel begin to ask for your change (new outside leg on (your right leg now), inside rein open slightly (left hand)) and bend to the new side, then turn onto your new rein. I find they always change at the front, and it’s 50/50 whether they change at the back, however it is easily fixed by doing it a few times and using lots of praise when they get it right.

I’ve done it this way with 5 youngsters and every single one of them could change when you asked them, and three of them could do auto changes when I sold them. They key to the exercise is to keep them as forward as possible. I hope I explained that exercise well because I feel like I didn’t

 

[Hallo2012]

This has worked magic for me with teaching youngsters - it will be hard for me to describe so I’ll include a picture and if you have any questions do ask.

You basically want to get four poles, place two poles as a tunnel horizontally at B (wide enough for your horse to go through) leaving about two metres away from the edge of the arena, and do the same at E (see pictures attached - purple lines are the poles).

Go large and get a forward canter with lots of impulsion. Let’s say you’re on the right rein wanting to change to left lead canter - to ask for the change, turn into your tunnel at E and cross the centre towards the second tunnel and prepare to change the rein/leg. Put on lots of leg, then just before you get to your second tunnel begin to ask for your change (new outside leg on (your right leg now), inside rein open slightly (left hand)) and bend to the new side, then turn onto your new rein. I find they always change at the front, and it’s 50/50 whether they change at the back, however it is easily fixed by doing it a few times and using lots of praise when they get it right.

I’ve done it this way with 5 youngsters and every single one of them could change when you asked them, and three of them could do auto changes when I sold them. They key to the exercise is to keep them as forward as possible. I hope I explained that exercise well because I feel like I didn’t

nooooooooo!

this might work for jumper changes but NOT for dressage changes, all it does it teach them to associate a change of bend or direction with a change of leg (it comes from your leg and seat and nothing else)lean down the inside shoulder and change late behind.

all wrong, sorry!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I agree with Halo I wouldn't do that for dressage no dressage rider I have known has ever used poles.

 

[Identityincrisis]

So last night I had a lesson with my dressage instructor, my first 1-2-1 with her (I much prefer this type of lesson) I asked if we could work on CC and explained i hate it and struggle. She took her time to tell me what i wanted to feel in the’set up’ and showed me the exercise, where to head to, when to ride slightly straighter and when to trot. I needed all of that because it came so easily then! Real light bulb moment so I’m going to build on that and told her my aim was FC which she was confident was very achievable, we just need to continue strengthening the canter