Foal registration advice please.

[01smartc]

Depends largely on the stallions licensing but given that the mare has a full pedigree (4 generation on both sides) then usually you can get papers from the stallions studbook of licensing.

ie. Sir Donnerhall is licensed and thigh branded oldenburg then approved for Hanover, Mecklenburg, Rhineland, South German Stud Books, Westphalia, Finland, France, Italy, Sweden so depending on each societies mare requirements (ie. who she is registered with) then in theory you could be eligable for paper for any of these stud books.

For registration for Hanoverian either the mare or stallion has to be thigh branded hanoverian, if the mare isn't then the stallion must be thigh branded and licensed hanoverian, so in that case if the mare was KWPN and she was bred to sir donnerhall the foal would not be eligeble for hanoverian papers even if she was graded into the stud book because sir donnerhall thigh branded. The foal would be eligable for Oldenburg papers as they are an open stud book (as long as the stallion is approved with the oldenburg society and is performance tested) and the mare has a 4 generation pedigree. The Kwpn would also take the foal on Register A and when it was graded into the stud book (3yrs old) it can then go into the stud book, but that only works with stallions on the KWPN approved studbook list:

KWPN acknowledged studbooks
- 2009

Riding type (dressage/jumping):
- Belgian Warmblood (BWP)
- Danish Warmblood Society
- Irish Sport Horse
- Nederlands Rijpaarden- en Pony Stamboek (NRPS, horses only)
- Pferdezuchtverband Baden-Württemberg e.V.
- Rheinisches Pferdestammbuch e.V.
- Stud-Book Francais du Cheval Selle Français
- Studbook Zangersheide
- Swedish Warmblood
- Trakehner Verband
- Verband Hannoverscher Warmblutzüchter e.V.
- Verband der Züchter der Holsteiner Pferdes e.V.
- Verband der Züchter des Oldenburger Pferdes e.V.
- Westfälisches Pferdestammbuch e.V.
- Thoroughbred

If they are not on the approved list then they would go onto the registration b which is also the registration for kwpn stallions that are not approved with any stud book.

As you can see there are no UK stud books who the KWPN recognize, so if you were to use a stallion who was registered/passported kwpn as a foal but then didn't license with its mother stud book (the one with which it is registered) ie. AES then the nearest thing to kwpn papers you could get to kwpn papers (worth any merit) would be register B which can not be upgraded to anything more. For example, if you had a filly foal born from a stallion who is licensed by an unrecognized stud book by the kwpn then thst filly could only go into the kwpn register b book (which is the lowest kwpn register). If you then wanted to breed on from her to a kwpn approved stallion that foal would then be register A and could then be put forward for stud book entry at 3yrs old at which point she would then be a stud book mare as long as it passed the necessary requirements.

British stallion owners often say they have licensed their stallion AES (for example) rather than their mother stud book (the studbook with which it was born into) to support british breeding, keep costs down etc etc, but if the truth be known the AES is much easier to license with as are the Zfdp (german stud with similar status to AES).

Anyway getting back to the studbooks.....With Oldenburg if you have a mare with a four generation pedigree and the stallion is licensed or approved with them then you can get pink papers for your foal, if you mare doesn't have a 4 generation pedigree but the stallion is licensed or approved with then then you can get white papers.

Thats an idea of Hanoverian, oldenburg and KWPN, trakhaner are a closed stud book they only accept (i think!!!) new blood into the stud book that is arab, anglo arab or thoroughbred. Holstein is semi closed they will only accept certain pedigrees - they will accept some new things in but its down to their discretion. Westphalian will accept any foal from a mother with a 4 generation pedigree and a father who is licensed with a stud book they recognize and performance tested than they will take the foal as Westphalian (as long as the mare is graded into the stud book).

This is what irritates me with stallion adverts, a lot of owners advertised that their stallion is a KWPN or Hanoverian or Oldneburg etc stallion which gives you the impression he is licened or approved with this society when in fact this is just the society with which he is was born into and registered with as a foal so is completely irrelevant to the mare owner. It then says (often further down in smaller writing) that he is approved AES or Zfdp for example which means that although they are advertising their 'hanoverian stallion' or 'kwpn stallion' that is completely irrelevant as the mare owner will only be able to get AES or Zfpd papers - which are hugely different.

I for one find this very misleading and think that there is a lot of confusion suriounding foal registration and what papers you are actually able to get for your foal.

What is your mare and who are you thinking of breeding her to and maybe i can give you an idea of what you could be thinking of getting?

Hi,

I realise this post is over 10 years old! But you seem very knowledgeable and so thought its worth asking here before starting a new post.

I am a bit confused about a few things. I want to be sure how to register new foals into the best possible studbook they can.

Oldenburg for example, can you get full pink papers if just the stallion is registered and graded? Or do both the stallion and mare need to be?

Can the mare be graded into the book?

If so what criteria does she need to have? 4 generations of pedigree? On one side or both? But what kind of pedigree? With any studbook or with OLD?

Same questions for Hann

Then also how much value is given to each studbook? If we are producing foals to sell as competition horses not necessarily for breeding, does it make a massive difference to value and desirability which stud book they are in?

If they have a top class Sire line but a weak Dam line, registered with SHB for example but with great movement and ability, are the values really that much different?

I understand for breeding you need the lines and studbooks on both sides.

I would really like to support British breeding and studbooks. But which one do I go for? I assume WBS is the best UK one? But then all the top stallions are not licensed with WBS so I couldn't get full pink papers for the foal?

So that means I would be better off registering with Old or Hann

All a bit confusing - help please!

Chris

 

[HappyHackerK8]

Thanks for your reply.

For example. I have a KWPN mare that is in foal to a KWPN registered stallion so I'm wondering if i should be registering the foal with this studbook. Is there a benefit to doing this over registering with Anglo European studbook.

If you have a KWPN mare but the stallion is registered with a different studbook would you normally register the foal with the studbook of the sire?

I don’t think uk bred KWPNs can be registered to KWPN studbook since brexit.

 

[HappyHackerK8]

I don’t think uk bred KWPNs can be registered to KWPN studbook since brexit.

Just realised this is an old post! Whoops!