Foal STILL scouring. Any ideas?

[Bojingles]

I posted a few days ago about my foal scouring. The next day she was still scouring and looked a bit depressed so I brought her and mum in. The vet came out, she had a slight temperature (39.5) and he left me with some Diarsanyl and an electrolyte replacement powder. He said he'd be reluctant to give anti-bs at this point and to keep a close eye on her.

I've been taking her temp several times a day and it has come down to around the 38.5 mark. She's feeding and isn't showing any signs of dehydration but the runs are still really bad - like yellow liquid. I've taken mum off all hard feed and she's just on plenty of hay. The foal's still down in the dumps- she hasn't got any worse but not any better except the temp's come down.

Any ideas anyone?

 

[eventrider23]

Has the vet taken a fecal sample to test for anything serious??? Plus bloods? Also have you tried her on something like Tuff Rock which is effectively Volvanic Ash/Rock and helps solidify her scours. Would also put on something like Protexin Quick Fix Probiotic paste as continual scours will kill off the gut flora and as such helping provide a replacement will help them pick up quicker.

 

[Bojingles]

I haven't given her anything other than what the vet gave me - I have no experience of foals (she was an accidental BOGOF) so I went with his advice. He said the Diarsanyl would help firm her up. Not working yet . He didn't take any fecal samples either. I'm going to see her in a bit - I may ring the vet. What could be causing this? Thanks for your reply!

 

[eventrider23]

With foals it can be anything from the absolute simplest such as mum's food too rich or being in season right up to the severe bacterial conditions they can get. Foals don't have strong stomachs and are very prone to scours and so it can be a wide variety of things causing it. How old is the foal now?? How long has it been scouring for? If it has a temperature I am surprised that the vet wouldn't have taken a blood sample at least to see what is going on internally and so I would definitely speak to them if you are on good terms and otherwise if foal is still low tomorrow I would get them out as foals can go downhill soo quickly.

 

[Bojingles]

She's been scouring on and off for 2 weeks, but it's only the last couple of days that she's started to get a bit depressed. The vet said he wouldn't want to do any more than he did at the moment but I'll see how she is in a minute and call him again if she's still the same.

 

[Bojingles]

PS she's 4 1/2 weeks

 

[whirlwindhorses]

Have you wormed her? If not then i would worm her with a whole tube of Panacur paste. Panacur is safe to use. Some foals do scour a lot and a wormer usually stops it, she might scour worse for a day or two after. If she stops feeding off the mare then you need to get your vet asap.

 

[Lgd]

Get some Prokolin foal (by Protexin) - used it on my little chap when he started to scour on Mum's foal heat and he dried up almost immediately

 

[oldywoldy]

Prokolin for foals is the best stuff easily available I would be very wary of the suggestion of giving her a whole tube of Panacur certainly worm her but for 100kgs or so if she is nearly 5 weeks old. To have been scouring for over 2 weeks is not great - I am suprised she is not dehydrated and will be losing protein fast. Any deterioration get the vet immediately as foals can go down hill very quickly. There is also some fantastic stuff called Bio Sponge which your vet can get for you is expensive but very effective.

 

[Miss L Toe]

It is difficult to get something on a Sunday morning, if it were me, I would ring a local stud to see if they have something in stock, else get to the vet on monday morning. The foal may not survive for ever!

 

[Maesfen]

Try some natural yoghurt which might just help line the stomach. It certainly won't work against anything you try later and might just clear the problem up, our vets often recommend it. We usually syringe it down and they take it easily.

 

[Bojingles]

Thank you for your replies everyone. She's still not doing well - if anything the scouring's worse. Her temperature has gradually been coming down and is now bang on 38. She's feeding and showing interest in mum's hay but still down in the dumps. I'm syringe feeding her half-litres of electrolytes at regular intervals.

I called the vet and had a brief conversation - he was on another call. He seems reluctant to do anything. He actually said "there's not much we can do except support her with the electrolytes." He said to go to the surgery to collect some more Diarsanyl and electrolytes. He's also going to call after this call-out he's on. What do you think I should push for? Bloods? Fecal sample?

I was advised against worming the foal or mum while the foal's so dicky. I will feed her some yogurt as she's accepting the syringe no problem. Do I need a prescription for the Protexin ProKolin?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[tynedale]

No you don't need a prescription but vet will have some.
Ask your vet which sample would be best but it's not an instant result, about 5 days for rotavirus etc.
Thought he would have given ab's as her temperature was high wasn't it!
We had Prokolin and Diarsanyl together for one of our foals but it didn't work so are back on another antibiotic again now and on to our second fecal sample being sent away.
Hope she clears up soon it's such a worry isn't it.
Don't forget to disinfect everything daily with something like virkon and bed spotless! Also keep her bottom and tail as clean as you can and smear vaseline around the area to stop burns. If your not happy with the vets advice get another one in to look at your foal.

 

[Bojingles]

It is a worry!! I just spoke to the vet again. He said the absolute priority is to keep her fluids and electrolytes up so I'm going to the surgery to pick some more up. He said the probiotics will be the next thing so if I can get some today I will but it might be tomorrow.

Surprisingly he said absolutely not to the yogurt - he said it has nothing beneficial for a horse gut and could make things worse.

Off to feed her some more fluids. Thanks again.

 

[Rollin]

I have only one experienced scour in a foal, so am no expert. Certainly my Scottish vet would have recommended live yoghurt.

I had an email this morning from another CB breeder (with decades of experience) a mare arrived for covering with a foal, which scoured, she gave a-b immediately to the foal.

I shall google off and have a little google.

 

[angrovestud]

Hello we have just been through the same thing in our filly she started at 7 days and after 3 days of it not stopping i got our vet out he jabed her with ant Bs as her temp was raised slightly but she was not down at all far from it shes bronked since she came out! we have never had a foal scour so it was worrying me, we gave her actimel 5mil syringed twice a day i also used something called pepto bismol which lines the tummy i took mum off all hard feed but chaff and fiber nuts and 3 weeks later shes dry It could well be the grass this year my vet would always be safe then sorry oh and she got wormed on the spot we weaned her off the pepso bismol slowly and all is fine. good luck with her

 

[TBB]

As others have said a prolonged scour in a foal is not good. As long as you use a "live culture" yougart it will only help your foal's gut, the equine hospital we use swears by it even for foals after a course of antibiotics, you can get it in your local supermarket and foals love it. We also put them on "TuffRock" which I find very good for binding them and of course electrolytes if there is a danger of dehydration which is probably likely if scour is running out of the foal like you describe. We dose all our foals with a quarter tube of panacur at about 14 days as a scour prevention, has your vet mentioned Rotovirus? We had a foal with it only once (thank God) but the vet knew the minute he walked in (It has a distinctive smell apparently) and said ABs of no use but we stopped the foal sucking the mare and dosed the foal with everything I had for scour (foals and calves) and everything he had in the jeep (also for foals and calves) and fed it on electrolytes for 3 days and as she started to improve she was let back on the mare gradually and everything went fine. Vet said no one thing can fix it you just have to try everything to sort out the symptoms. I know you want to stick with your vet and I'm not saying you shouldn't but I think some "live culture yougart" wont do any harm and may help.

 

[SusieT]

Your vet sounds like he is doing the right thing. Bloods will not show anything useful. Antibitoics are very unlikely to be effective as it is most likely viral. Supportive therapy-ie.l keeping her non dehydrated is the way to go.

 

[Bojingles]

Just back from our last syringe feed of the day - she's had 2 litres today. I washed her bum and put some cream on at about 5 and she hasn't scoured since. I'm hoping that's a positive sign! Temp's 38.4. Fingers crossed for a brighter foal tomorrow.

 

[tynedale]

How is your foal today?

 

[Mugsgame]

Prokolin for foals is the best stuff easily available I would be very wary of the suggestion of giving her a whole tube of Panacur certainly worm her but for 100kgs or so if she is nearly 5 weeks old.

To be fair though, a whole tube of Panacur is the recommended dose per 90kg bodyweight for a scouring foal of this age - we had one this year who was reasonably bright in herself but just continually scouring. Tried a whole range of supportive treatments but only really dried up after this wormer. This on a yard with excellent worm control and prevention, but who knows, they only need a few to set the cycle off in them! She was also supported with Forgastrin, electrolytes, pre and probiotics, etc. Foals are quite sensitive and often have a bout of scouring, but most would clear up after a few days.

If she continues to scour I would seriously consider the worming route - check with your vet first if you are worried, but at the very least it shouldn't hurt her and for around £7 per tube its not to costly to try!

 

[frozzy]

I had a Welsh B foal scour for the entire 6 months he was on his mother. Vet did worm counts on both mare and foal which came back negative. He had a couple of syringes of prokaolin which did dry him up but as soon as it stopped he went back to scouring. Vet put it down to rich mares milk. As soon as he was weaned he stopped scouring and is now a healthy 3 year old.

 

[Bojingles]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I thought we'd turned a corner this morning as she seemed brighter and hadn't scoured at all overnight. She was also feeding so I didn't give her extra fluids.

But then this afternoon her temp had nudged up (only to 38.4) and she started scouring again - projectile yellow liquid. So I gave her some more fluids. Her poor bum's so sore even though I'm cleaning it and rubbing baby oil or vaseline the skin's all coming off.

I'm going to the surgery first thing to get more electrolytes and Diarsalyn so will have a chat with the vet then. It's just going on and on - I feel we need to intervene with something else as what we're doing is not really improving things much. So I'll talk to the vet tomorrow about worming, anti-bs.

I just wonder if it could be anything to do with the mare's milk? Because I gave her so much fluid yesterday I reckon she didn't take so much from mum and then stopped scouring.

Oh well, I'll let you know what the vet says tomorrow.

 

[Maesfen]

It could well be the mare's milk being too rich; what are you feeding the mare, perhaps that would give you a clue? Sometimes foals don't do well when the mare has a molassed feed.

 

[AmyMay]

It could well be the mare's milk being too rich; what are you feeding the mare, perhaps that would give you a clue? Sometimes foals don't do well when the mare has a molassed feed.

Ooo beat me to it.

OP, may be worth taking mare off everything except hay - to see if that does any good.

 

[sallyf]

My vet would certainly have run bloods by now particularly if the foal has had any sort of
temperature.
They will tell you if there is any infection which is a possibility with her flucuations in temp and whether she has not got ulcers from the constant scouring.
We always give gastro gard for a few days to any foal that scours just to make sure ulcers dont occur.
I also had a filly that scoured and none of the normal treatments worked and a course of antibiotics after blood tests did stop it within 2 days and she never scoured again after that.
Any problems with foals we always run blood tests but then my vet practice deal with hundreds and hundereds of valuable foals on a daily basis so perphaps look at things from a differant perspective.

 

[Bojingles]

Saw the vet this morning and he thinks it is the mare's milk that's causing the scouring, as it's going on but she doesn't have a temperature (37.6 this morning). He's also happy it's not something she picked up in the field as they've now been in 5 days, so he thinks they should go out now, particularly as she's not "clinically abnormal", just a bit miserable and listless.

I've picked up some more Diarsalyn and the plan is to turn them out and still keep a very close eye on her.

Maesfen - while they've been in the mare's only been on hay, and when they go out I won't give her any hard feed. She's looking very well so that shouldn't be a problem.

Frozzy, how did you manage the constant scouring, and did the foal get depressed?

God, they're such a worry!!! Thanks again for your replies.

 

[hayinamanger]

A scouring, depressed foal? I would be unhappy in this this situation. I haven't read through all the posts, but if the vet has not taken a dung sample yet, I would definitely want this done. I would also want the foal on Tribrissen paste (or whatever it's called now) with Antepsin to follow.

 

[eventrider23]

I actually saw my vet this morning as was out to scan a mare and put this story across to her and immediate action would have been to put the foal on some Tuff Rock or similar and a pro biotic and done a fecal sample. The constant scours, no matter what the cause, will deplete her natural gut flora and so the probiotics will rectify this and so on.

 

[Bojingles]

Well, they've gone out; the mare charged around and the foal joined in, which was good to see. She's also feeding. I'm really hoping that now she's back on the Diarsanyl it'll help bind her, and then I can talk to the vet about worming.

I've been googling Diarsanyl, it contains prebiotics and seems to be good stuff. Fingers crossed!