Foal with Heart murmur

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ESH

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Just wondered if anyone wanted to share their opinions on my situation.

My vet came out to check on my new born foal and without asking me she did a blood test and ran 3 different test on it. (All came back clear) All because he was a bit slow in getting up and suckling and is a very laid back foal. Then she was worried about his heart and came back the next day to do another blood test (which is a standard one) and listened to his heart, still not happy came back a week later and is now saying he has a heart murmur and is suggesting a scan to diagnose the severity of the murmer and it just so happens she has a vet friend who is doing a PHD on cardiology who will come and do the scan with her.

Nothing can be done if he does have a bad murmur but their reason for doing the scan is that if it is bad they can advise me not to spend time training him as an athlete or have him PTS. Of course on the other hand it may be nothing to worry about and it could be something he could grow out of.

I have told them that I will not have him PTS, I bred him for my own use and he will do what ever he ends up capable of doing and I really can't understand the reason to diagnose something that can't be helped.

What the vet has not seen every time she has been here is the foal running around the field with his mum and enjoying himself like a totaly normal foal.
 
I believe that 'Over to You' failed the vet when he was younger due to a heart murmer!! I think that says it all. I would say don't worry about it unless it becomes a problem.
 
I dont know much about heart murmurs..but i knew one who had a grade 5 which is quite bad..and she still jumped her etc. Whether this was the best thing or not i dont know, but still. I also know someone who had a youngster with a grade 6 and she was advised to lightly work him , but she chose not to because of the possible risks involved, and he became a companion . Not sure if this helps x
 
Oh! And mine also had a grade 2 lol, oddly only when he's at rest and its not apparent after work , but yes
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doesnt affect him in the slightest. x he's been eventing etc like it
 
One of my foals had a hole in her heart when she was born. There was an obvious problem, as her back legs were very swollen and she found it very hard to bend them, and so struggled to get up.

The Vet came and listened. He too was not sure of her prognosis. However, like you, she was bred for me so we just left her to grow up.

Each year, at vacc time they listened to her heart, and each year the noise became fainter. By the time she was 6, it couldnt be heard at all, and she has gone on to live a fulfilling life, eventing and even doing 2 unafflicted 3DE's.

Last year she had a baby, and she is now back in work at the age of 17yrs!

There is hope
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Def get it scanned for your peace of mind - a lot of horses including racehorses in training have a murmur of one sort or another, many of no clinical siginificance. Also, many young horse's murmrus are 'physiological' i.e. due to turbulent blood flow as their heart is still growing and foal's blood is less viscous than adult's - these murmurs they tend to grow out of.
Equally it could be something more serious like a ventricular septal defect. But either way, like you said you will just see how he does (which imo is the best thing to do!) but it would be good to know for the future what he is likely to be able to do.
Did vet say what it sounded like, and where in the cardiac cycle it was heard? (i'm just revising equine cardiac murmurs so find this all v interesting!)
 
Also just had a thought, i know you said vet came back a week later, but some foal's ductus arteriosus doesn't close until they are 10days old - this causes a loud continuous murmur that would sound quite dramatic...but it should def be gone by 10days - maybe re-check him before you panic! It can remain open for life (patent ductus arteriosus) but this is fairly uncommon.
And even if it is a ventricular septal defect, the intensity of the murmur does not correlate to the size of the hole, and some horses show no clinical sighs with this condition, so it may be nothing to worry about.
 
Thank you for all your replies. I also know of quite a few adult horses have heart murmurs and it doesn't affect them at all.

I just feel that to pay for a scan at this stage is a waste of money, I just want to enjoy him for the loving foal that he is. It is not affecting him at the moment, I took a video clip this evening of him and mum galloping around the field together.

I also feel he is just to young at the moment to start taking him for a journey to the vets (even though it is only 5 mins away), who knows what infections and viruses there are lurking there, let alone the stress that it could put on him and mum.

The vet did say that all foals are born with a hole in their heart to allow blood to circulate round the body when they are in the womb, before the lungs are active.

Bean88, if I do speak to the vet again, I will ask her what it sounded like and where in the cycle she heard it and let you know. What I do know is she could only hear it on the foal's near side. Does that mean anything to you?
 
I would keep vet costs to a minimum if it was my foal (unless you have insurance that covers from birth). One of my foals was very quiet at birth and slept alot. She's 3 and still the same! Pure ID so I think it's just her nature. I had vet out to her on day one as I was "worried" she was so quiet. With regards to the murmur I've had 2 Irish Setter pups who both had heart murmurs as puppies but have both grown out of them, not sure if this is the same problem with foals. One of my mares has a grade 2 heart murmur and she's fine, in fact she's due to foal in 2 weeks. If you want to do anything I'd suggest asking the vet to listen to the foal's heart again in a month or so before getting drawn into the array of expensive tests.
 
My horse has a heart murmer, not sure what grade, but she is 10 and still going strong, jumping ect. I think it all comes down to whats causing it, it could be really serious or have no effect on the foal what so ever.
I'm not sure if you were complaining, but it sounded as if you were unhappy about the vet being worried because the foal was late to suckle. Just thought I would add that my cousin's horse foaled last month and the foal was slow to get up and suckle and it sadly died a few days later. I think getting the test done was a good idea because after all, better safe than sorry. If you wern't complaining then ignore me
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Good luck with your foalie!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Pure ID so I think it's just her nature.

[/ QUOTE ] He is ID x TB. his mum is 3/4 TB 1/4 ID and the stallion is a RID so yes they are laid back. Good job too as I have a IDxTB who is 17.1 and would be far too much too handle if he wasn't laid back.

[ QUOTE ]
f you want to do anything I'd suggest asking the vet to listen to the foal's heart again in a month or so before getting drawn into the array of expensive tests.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is what I shall do. I shall wait till he is due his first vaccinations at 3 months and will ask for another vet to check him.

Not complaining about vet picking up the problems, but it just got to the stage over the last couple of months that this particular vet has done various tests on my other horse when I'm not sure they were really needed and I have had some large bills for minor things.
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