Follow on from good farrier needed - pictures of feet

Busybusybusy

Busybusybusy

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www.racehorsetoridinghorse.blogspot.co.uk
Here are the pictures of the horses feet that i took today. He was shod on Wednesday. Before that the foot he was not lame on was very noticeably more upright than the one he was lame on.

Sorry the photos aren't that great - he was supremely uncooperative this afternoon!!

Front feet straight on

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His near fore

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He would not pick up his near fore long enough to get a decent photo - he's very fed up with people fiddling around with his feet!

Near hind

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Off fore

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Off hind

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Please have a look & offer observations and suggestions etc. :eek:

Thank you :)
 
Very briefly, I am not surprised your horse is lame! In the first sole shot (not sure which hoof it is) the shoe is put on crooked so that it is digging into the frog one side and there is a large gap the other. The hind feet look as though the toes have been severely 'dumped'. Do you know why this is? And was it done with the help of xrays?

Your horse's heels are contracted and underrun and the frogs are weak and under developed. He also has some event lines which could indicate laminitis, or possibly just a diet change.

Someone more knowledgable than I will be able to comment I'm sure.
 
Ditto wagtail.

The dumped toe is usually done to compensate for flare, which is most often caused by excess sugar and starch in the diet. In the 'off fore' pic you can see the angle change 1/4 of the way down the foot - the steeper angle at the top is how the foot wants to grow, but is currently being prevented from doing so.

The shoeing on the near hind is dreadful imo.

The legs in the first pics look nice and straight, from what I can see, indicating a decent medio lateral balance.
 
OP, has your vet xrayed the feet? If so, what did they show? If not, I think it is vital that you get xrays done on this horse's feet. The more I look at them, the more I am convinced he had an episode of laminitis in the last 3 - 4 months. I would want to check if there is any rotation.
 
I'm sorry the horse is lame. x
I haven't followed the other thread I'm afraid but I see lots of dietary issues... ripples, which have been rasped out in most of the hoof, hooves trying to run forward etc.The hooves have been heavily rasped and in places the inner wall and even lamina (it looks like on off side front at toe) has been exposed. I can't comment on the shoeing itself as I know nothing about it. It appears the hoof shape being produced by the horse (and it's diet) is trying to be controlled by rasping and shaping.

ps. I second wagtail re X Rays. I do think the horse needs to be treated as a laminitic to help him. He will most likely be uncooperative with his feet because they are sore.
 
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Wagtail said:
OP, has your vet xrayed the feet? If so, what did they show? If not, I think it is vital that you get xrays done on this horse's feet. The more I look at them, the more I am convinced he had an episode of laminitis in the last 3 - 4 months. I would want to check if there is any rotation.
Click to expand...

I haven't had his feet xrayed yet - even if he is more sound by the end of the week I will get them done as I think it will help any trimmer/farrier decide what to do about shoeing/trimming.

I would expect there to be obvious signs of diet change in his feet as I did change his diet in mid-end July - that's when I changed from bog standard cubes to baileys no4 & baileys outshine (plus alfa A, sugarbeet & magnesium) ...on the advice of Jenny Pitman!! as he was so underwieght.

This is a picture of him just after I bought him in april

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And this is a picture of him taken in 0ctober

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He has lost a little condition since the onset of winter, but hoping to improve that situation once feed/forage increased.
 
I agree with all the criticisms that other people have made.

I also think you should be seriously concerned about why the pastern angle on his front feet has become so much more upright. This would normally be a sign of a horse whose heels hurt, who is putting the weight into his toes in order to remove it from the back of his foot.


I think that the drastic dubbing of the hind toes is hiding bullnose feet, which would also indicate a starch intolerance problem as people have said. Given the length that his hind toes would be if they had not been chopped off, and the shape of them, I would be unsurprised to see negative coffin bone angle on the back feet if you get xrays.

Your intial photo of when you bought him is classic for a horse with sore back feet - tucked under, with strain through his whole back.
 
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Just wanted to say you have done an excellent job with his condition. I really hope he comes right for you. He's gorgeous.
 
Just out of interest does he have windgalls on his hind legs? He has actually been shod with a square toe which transfers the weight from the heel to the toe- usually used to treat windgalls. Ditto the comments about him looking very good though, youve done a fantastic job!
 
Yes a great job with his condition. Just a note about diet. Most nutrients come from forage, it should be the major part of diet. Along with that forage can also be a big source of sugars and starch, so even feeding a low sugar bucket feed the grazing and hay can have the biggest influence on a sugar sensitive horse.
 
Hi,

I'm by no means an expert but your horse looks so similar to mine confo wise I had to reply. When I bought my mare she was out of work and looked very similar to yours when you bought him. After 6 months of medium work she had a very sore back. After a lameness work up with nerve blocks in the feet etc the vet came to the conclusion she was lame in all four feet and was compensating for it in her back. The vets reckons 10 or so years ago she would have been diagnosed with navicular syndrome and probably PTS! But lots of physio, x rays and a slight adjustment to her shoeing the balance (as determined by x rays) on her front feet is perfect and she's sound. The back feet still have a way to go tho. She was changed into natural balance shoes in a bigger size which are set further back to improve the breakover point and give her heals a bit more support so nothing too drastic.

Anyway my point is, as someone else said, your horse looks sore over it's back. Get the vet to x-ray his feet, discuss the x-rays with a new farrier/trimmer and get a physio check too.

Your current farrier seems a bit eager with the rasp and has rasped the toes away. Also, as someone else said, one of the shoes is crooked and giving no heal support on the inside. Is that white stuff filler or has the farrier really gone to town with his rasp?

Hope that's of some help?
 
cptrayes - His pastern angle is now too straight and I think the farrier went on what the vet said re shortening his toe & making the breakover better - by raising his heels - I think now far too upright - it was not this upright before being shod on wednesday.

Zargon-91 - no he does not have windgalls so don't know why he has been given a square toe.

AmandaP & Wagtail - thank you - I also think he is gorgeous though he can be very cheeky at times and you can't be complacent on him as he can throw in the odd mahoosive buck when you least expect it. I was devastated when the vet said it sounds like his lameness could be something very serious. However, since doing loads of research I am more hopeful that with the right diet, correct foot care and exercise, things will get better even if it is going to take time.

AmandaP - Once I have moved yards I am planning to get grass/hay sent away for analysis as the hay is produced on the farm so I can get a better idea of supplements required and if needs be can soak the hay in order to remove alot of the sugars.

LouandBee - The white stuff is filler, though he has been heavy handed with the rasp.

So I am thinking of the following plan of action;

Get vet to do x rays this week - I assume I need images from front and sides on all four feet?

I move yards in 2 weeks time so will then;

Change diet,
get dentist to check teeth,
get physio to check back (any recommendations anyone?),
get farrier/trimmer to do consultation on feet with help of xray images
....and go from there with all fingers & toes crossed!!

This is us doing stressage last month...:D

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No point in me repeating the critique of the hooves. Most of its already been covered. I wouldnt let your farrier within 100 acres of my horses :eek:

Anyhoo - beautiful horse - obviously very much loved and cared for!

Suggest you start the diet changes asap - I posted what Id feed on your other thread, and get him off the baileys mixes asap! Id also want him on pro hoof asap too.

Id then be getting a trimmer out and having those shoes off and being prepared to give him some time off work if necessary. Dont forget the mechanical changes made by the vet to breakover all has impact higher up, all his tendons ad muscles are now under a different stress etc and this will then throw his shoulders and then back out.....Getting the feet right is the key to the whole horse being right!
 
Up date on progress;
Spoke to Mark Johnson today - he does both farriery and barefoot trimming and does not advocate for either side and he's going to come out and have a look at Paddy's feet in about a month's time. He said to leave it a month so that he is settled into his new environment as this can have an effect on feet also. He does not normally cover Cambridge but is going to do a consultation in order to help me decide which way to go for long term foot health, then I can search for a trimmer or farrier depending on my decision.
In the meantime I have emailed him the photos of Paddy's feet so that he can have a look & will let him see X-rays once they are done
.....Watch this space :)
 
Mark came out to my bf cob yesterday. He has been coming to me for five months now, I had to sweet talk him to come to me as I am on the beds northants border, I just pay extra petrol money. I was his furthest client , but he said he had, had an enquiry from Cambridge. He is very passionate about horses hooves wether it be bf or shod. We where having a good discussion yesterday, and no question is to much trouble, I am going to go to one of his next dissections when ever that is. Although he said I really won't need to see him hardly at all, as my horse does almost all his own trimming, and he comes along for my reassurance at the moment, so I will have to start to cut the apron strings and trust my own judgement, his mantra is listen to your horse.
 
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