Follow on from the abattoir thread, most horses are signed out of the food chain so

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be positive

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How do so many end up in the human food chain, all mine are signed out on their passports, most have had drugs administered at some time preventing them from entering it.
I have a racehorse here, his passport has him signed out definitively, which I take as meaning there is no way of changing this once it is signed.

So how does the abattoir get round this:confused:

I was going to put it on the other thread but felt it may be interesting to hear others views, I would always pts at home but realise for some taking to any abattoir is an option.
I am sure the horses that get taken in as individuals by an owner will be treated with respect and dispatched immediately, the ones that are shown in the video are likely to have been purchased at sales in bulk and are treated as meat on the hoof but the passport question still remains do they somehow just get new ones???
 
Quite simply because your average 'hobby' horse is not one that ends up on the abbatoir. Plus a passport is easily replaced.
 
amymay said:
Quite simply because your average 'hobby' horse is not one that ends up on the abbatoir. Plus a passport is easily replaced.
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It may be easily replaced but the fact that supposedly all these racehorses which should be signed out are ending up in the food chain, it does not bother me if someone is eating potentially contaminated meat but surely the law is being broken consistently if passports are routinely replaced before slaughter.
 
Mine would never end up in place like this. They are allways going to be put down at home or if at a show there and then. I think it should be law that horses are not moved to be Pts but done where their at whatever place that should be new forest dartmoor as the same for racehorse imo it cant be that hard to put up screens for the deed to be done surley we owe them that
 
amymay said:
Quite simply because your average 'hobby' horse is not one that ends up on the abbatoir. Plus a passport is easily replaced.
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This ^
However, what concerns me more is that microchips are not often being read.

I'd love to see the random use at all comps, RTA's, spot checks at home etc of chip scanning - and if they didn't match current passport, then action being taken.
Cannot ever see this happening tho :(
 
I'm pretty sure all bar one of ours could go to slaughter. Definitely mine could.

And fuzzy furry all you do is keep two passports (not obviously just before) and simply update duplicate with vet and not the original that goes with them to slaughter. Microchips would still match.

Aside from that I don't believe I've ever handed a passport over to a vet without my prompting for liveries. None of the practices I've used have been too fussed. The whole system is a bit of a joke as all someone has to do is lose the passport and get a clean one or use a different horses.

And what about things like wormers/bute... They've a withdrawel period from recollection but all you have to do is lie about when the last one was given.
 
Puss I assume you're vegan in that case? Or should we turn a blind eye to other animals travelled because we want to eat them?
Mine would never go but I have no problem with meat horses or people that do. It's the standards that need to be looked at, not the fact it happens.

For what it's worth Ive walked animals through abbatoirs... Every time they're taken someone from the farm takes them for the first part and there are places out there with very high standards where the animals are despatched quickly and professionally. The problem is not the business itself.
 
No im not a vegan and have eaten horse meat I think all animals should be pts where they are then moved to be cut up or what ever but the subject was on horses hence my post I lived in france and went to abattoirs i dont think any living animals should go to these places I know its not practical but its how i feel im not a fluffy bunny either living in france hardens you up I dont care what animal it is imo they know whats happening again imo
 
Agree with both amymay & Pandora. And I have yet to have a vet ask me for a passport when administering drugs. Not just my vet with my horses, but any really. So there's probably plenty of horses who shouldn't legally be used for human consumption with clear passports, even without getting duplicate ones.
 
We breed a few pigs at home for meat, nothing massive just 2 litters a year, they are very social and clever animals - certainly quicker at working out the plastic treat ball than any of my horses !
Handled calmly and sensitively I have no problem with any animal travelling a short distance to a slaughter house - we take the pigs and I'm happy with how they are treated, we don't leave until they are gone (usually minutes after unloading)
I really can't understand why people think horses should be treated differently - all animals should be treated with respect and dignity.

I personally think I'd be happier with all the unwanted abandoned ponies ending up as burgers, rather than the alternative which could be years of suffering, why shouldn't they be put to some kind of use - if people agree PTS is kinder than complete lack of care which would you prefer the horrible pyre type pictures we saw with cattle in the BSE crisis?

We are living in very difficult times and a much as it would be ideal for all ponies to be in loving caring homes, there aren't enought of these to go around. So some sensible practical alternative has to be found. I'd rather face it up front than wait until they are suffering - just my POV.
 
Replacement passports & new passports issued to horses over 6 months old are now automatically signed out of the human food chain so if anyone is going to run with 2 passports they need to plan it from before 6 months old. This didn't happen when passports first came in though.
 
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I assumed it meat only human consumption too so they can still be used for other things, dog meat etc and would they do anything with skin, do they still use parts for;glue? There are other uses not just human consumption. All animals should be despatched with as kindly and low stress as possible not just horses.
 
It's not that it's not practical. It's not possible puss. You'd have to have a slaughterhouse at each eamstablishment - it would be ridiculous.
To cull our birds on site we'd have to have such strict conditions that we only do our own. To do a horse would be nigh on impossible unless you're incredibly rich and can spare the money for a hygenic area to shoot, refridgerated area to store and transport by refrigerated truck to butchers and back again. You'd basically have to set up as a meat plant which I'm sure more people would be annoyed about popping up locally and would be a far more difficult process to monitor so would have far more poor welfar practices.
To collect our meat legally we have to pay someone else to transport it 5 mins down the road already which almost negates any profit.

For horse slaughter it is not a solution. A better solution would be to have more licensed horse slaughters so they didn't travel as far, monitoring conditions properly and refusing to take animals which aren't signed off by a vet (preferably before and after) as fit for for travel and slaughter.
 
Hairycob, not true. all you have to do is present the duplicate to the vet for signing and send the horse with the original... So can get a duplicate not fit for meat at any point.
 
PM... From recollection its human consumption. However pet food is better regulated than our own in the main so wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't or if certain drugs still ruled it out.
 
All replacement and transferred owner passports all now come back with the wording:

Not intended for slaughter for human consumption (to comply with EU regulations)

(copied from an IHR passport returned to me just last week)

This info is also uploaded to microchip info, before passport is returned.

Its now no good applying for 'new one' unless you are prepared to pay out for microchip too, then some horses may well have 2 chips.....

Ok, it wont stop the 'bottom of chain' indiscriminate bred horses & ponies whose owners never applied for passports or have had them chipped tho.....
 
I've had two transferred in the past 18 months and they are still both suitable for slaughter so must be very recent changes.

Its a good ruling though in some ways... Meat horses not requiring change of hands regularly. But not in others - meat horses can be bought in when young, so this would have to stop... Unless this is for general horse use and not livestock.
 
Pandorastar - you are obviously far more devious than me! Next time I have an idea for a heist I will have to get you involved, maybe we can make our forunes. On my own I am destined to be poor.
Re the transfers though - how many times do horses change hands & the passports not get transferred?
 
Lol. Hairycob. Mine were transferred from a deceased owner into my name (no relation) with no question. Even though I flagged it up. They asked for death cert but we never sent as had more important things to do and they've never questioned it since.
We also have one who wasn't passported (over 10yrs old) and no questions asked to get a passport, though this was a fair number of years ago.
 
Lots of views, pandorasjar definitely has a devious mind ;)

The horses at the bottom end of the market, those bred with no purpose other than to make a few pounds wherever that may be, they will just have a standard passport issued if and when required so it can be sent on its way.

Some pets or much loved horses that for whatever reason have ended up in sales, been passed down the line could be re passported, if not already micro chipped or vet does not check this will be easy enough to do.

Not all will go for human consumption but this must be the only route that is reasonably profitable along the line, so I still wonder how they are getting away with putting any ex racehorses through the system, they are all chipped and passports will have been checked when going onto a racecourse, any trainer is open to inspection at any time so records must be correct, I know there will always be a few that take a few short cuts.

Therefore are racehorses entering the human food chain or is that it sounds more emotive to hear that the horse you may have bet on is ending up on a dinner plate in France.
 
puss said:
Mine would never end up in place like this. They are allways going to be put down at home or if at a show there and then. I think it should be law that horses are not moved to be Pts but done where their at whatever place that should be new forest dartmoor as the same for racehorse imo it cant be that hard to put up screens for the deed to be done surley we owe them that
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The logistics would be a nightmare - You need proper equiptment to move a body 500kg plus of deadweight, has to be dragged onto the knacker lorry with a winch. I don't think the tourist board would be impressed with mass slaughter on Dartmoor or the New Forest either - what would you do have a free BBQ after?? You also need proper killing areas - You cannot just take potshots at them in a corral. Also proper hygiene and slaughter guidelines must be met.

At the end of the day as horrible as it is there must be an outlet to slaughter the mass volume of overbred horses produced in this country,but what we must do is make sure it is carried out with dignity and respect by competant persons, no shortcuts to be taken like those that were highlighted in the report.

Racehorse's often do get PTS behind screens if to injured to be safely moved in the horse ambulance.

Same with RTA's if possible the horse is moved to a safer place and the road allowed open again - sensible IMO.

Mine too will be PTS at home when the time comes.
 
PandorasJar said:
Puss I assume you're vegan in that case? Or should we turn a blind eye to other animals travelled because we want to eat them?
Mine would never go but I have no problem with meat horses or people that do. It's the standards that need to be looked at, not the fact it happens.

For what it's worth Ive walked animals through abbatoirs... Every time they're taken someone from the farm takes them for the first part and there are places out there with very high standards where the animals are despatched quickly and professionally. The problem is not the business itself.
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I am the same I have no problem with eating any animal as long as its put out FAST. Not in a distressed state like the video. That is the problem not the horse being eaten but HOW its killed. All the legislation and this is the unscrupulous side to meat industry. But I know there are good abbatoirs. I do think live cameras would make a big difference we can link to the internet worldwide these days live road cameras etc. So why not? Most people are desensitised to animal welfare as they buy it all pre plastic bag in supermarket. My relative farmer always said if people had to grow their own less waste. It is an unpleasant industry that is driven by public demand. As to horse passport I still have mine if I had wanted to send it to the food chain I could have. No one asked. The horse passport is rubbish.
 
be positive said:
Lots of views, pandorasjar definitely has a devious mind ;)

The horses at the bottom end of the market, those bred with no purpose other than to make a few pounds wherever that may be, they will just have a standard passport issued if and when required so it can be sent on its way.

Some pets or much loved horses that for whatever reason have ended up in sales, been passed down the line could be re passported, if not already micro chipped or vet does not check this will be easy enough to do.

Not all will go for human consumption but this must be the only route that is reasonably profitable along the line, so I still wonder how they are getting away with putting any ex racehorses through the system, they are all chipped and passports will have been checked when going onto a racecourse, any trainer is open to inspection at any time so records must be correct, I know there will always be a few that take a few short cuts.

Therefore are racehorses entering the human food chain or is that it sounds more emotive to hear that the horse you may have bet on is ending up on a dinner plate in France.
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PLEASE STOP THE DINNER PLATE IN FRANCE THREAD.

Very few French people eat horse meat. Visit our local supermarkets with Beef, Lamb, Pork Chicken and you may see 3 or 4 packs of horse meat. My butcher in the village no longer even puts it on show you have to ask for it.

Where does all this horsemeat come from? Mexico and Canada

If you did not hear it today, please listen to the Food Programme Radio Four repeated on Monday.
 
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