Following on from a link in one of the badders threads

Sanolly

Sanolly

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Someone posted a link to the coverage of one of the earlier years of Badminton on a different thread; and whilst watching it I just had a few musings of the differences between "the norm" in eventing back then and "the norm" now. The video is from 1994. Please bear in mind I got 'into' eventing very late, and up until last year XC scared the pants off me so I haven't competed in an event (yet!).

- grease, most of the horses seem to have their chests greased as well as their legs, why don't we see that any more?
- it is so odd to see riders without body protectors on, when did they become compulsory?
- more horses seem to be getting patted, perhaps I just haven't noticed it?
- long format, I have never seen a long format event so the (albeit brief!) footage of the roads and tracks, and the steeplechase were very interesting to watch.

If any one else has any thoughts, or experiences of eventing "back then" (sorry don't mean to be rude :p) it would be interesting to hear them :)
 
Sanolly said:
- grease, most of the horses seem to have their chests greased as well as their legs, why don't we see that any more?
- it is so odd to see riders without body protectors on, when did they become compulsory?
- more horses seem to be getting patted, perhaps I just haven't noticed it?
- long format, I have never seen a long format event so the (albeit brief!) footage of the roads and tracks, and the steeplechase were very interesting to watch.

If any one else has any thoughts, or experiences of eventing "back then" (sorry don't mean to be rude :p) it would be interesting to hear them :)
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i'll do my best...
we used to use a lot more grease, but then i think research was done that proved that it might make horses overheat a bit (can't sweat through it) so a bit of a 'less is more' attitude ensued...
bps weren't compulsory in 1988 when i started BE eventing. i'm not positive but i think they were made compulsory in about 1990, but you could use BETA level 1 (v thin race-type bp). i remember having quite an argument with a saddler when i insisted i wanted a BETA level 3 bp back in 1995/6 when i started doing Advanced... she said i wouldn't be able to move in it. hmmm.
i think the commercialism and professionalism in the sport has made a huge difference... so many riders nowadays have teams of horses, grooms etc. there are far fewer one-horse riders who adored their horses and patted them a lot because they really appreciated them more, if you know what i mean.
i did quite a few long-format 3-days, at 1, 2 and 3 star level. there were also long-format 2-days, for practice. i never enjoyed the 'chase, found it very hard on the horses (never had a TB that could just cruise it, had to push to get the time), but i really miss the roads and tracks, the whole thing made it very special.
there's a vid somewhere called 'three day eventing, toughest of sports' and that has quite a lot of footage of Lexington long-format from years ago...
it's here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgPuXg75ISk
enjoy!
as for experiences, i could prob bore the pants off you! ;) ;)
 
I doubt it K! I'm really hoping I have finally got my hands on a horse that can get me eventing properly, for a start she is an actual horse rather than a pony that is too small to affiliate ;)

It just interests me the differences between now and 10-ish years ago, how things have progressed etc.

As for the 'one horse owners' thing surely if a horse has done well pat it, no matter who it belongs to? On a similar train of thought I think it was a lot nicer seeing "amateurs" riding Badminton, you can see how much they are loving being there and living their dream - I personally find myself getting behind them more.

ETA: thanks for the link :)
 
blimey! that video! Never realised the steeplechase was so long at a long-format. That water was horrible as well, nothing seemed to jump any of it well...Badders looks positively kind and inviting compared to that lol
 
That youtube clip is amazing. Seems so strange as well seeing riders get back on to carry on! That fall at 9 minutes is crazy. And is that a ditch before the white rail drop into the water?? Jeez!!

Urgh just watched the last bit, nasty.
 
Also - re. the old Badders footage - I always thought Mary's horses had "King" in their name from her surname, but didn't realise King William was from before she was married. Is this coincidence, was she courting then, or did she happen to be dating the breeder/owner?? lol.


Ok according the wikipedia it seems to be a coincidence as King William is by a horse called Nickel King. And unfortunately Mary's husband is not called William King.
 
yes, Foaling Around, Mary's husband was one of her owners for a long time.

the Lexington video - did you notice that the riders weren't wearing bps?
The fall at the end was a very nasty one but fortunately the rider survived.
I think I know why it happened, a specific effect of it being long format... anyone fancy analysing it?
another great vid of old-school Badders etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrxWAasR6U
(starts off with Toddy on catch ride, Rodney Powell's The Irishman. Twice Toddy took on a last-minute ride, a horse he'd never sat on, and went straight out around Badminton... and won.
then Ginny Leng/Holgate on Priceless (i think!).. I think The Lake is a lot softer nowadays! I thought the Quarry was more difficult, and the huge drop to bounce the sort of question we don't see nowadays...
Then Ian Stark on Murphy Himself (horse 99% in control) at WEG, at the water complex that caused no end of trouble to top combinations.
Then Ian on Glenburnie going through Luckington Lane.
Murphy bouncing down over the ditch at the proper old coffin (every sane horse took a stride!)
Glenburnie making the Ski Jump look easy (it wasn't, both Lucinda Green and Ginny fell at the upright at the bottom of the steep slope) that was the end of Ginny riding Murphy (she's already won Burghley on him) but she broke her ankle and he just hooleyed off round the park when she came off, apparently that was the final straw...
Murphy and new jockey Ian Stark at the notorious white bounce rails into the Lake...the sun shining on the water meant some horses totally misjudged them, they caused huge trouble.
Best of all, Murphy bouncing the road crossing at WEG. most horses took one or two strides. Murphy made it look EASY on a bounce. I remember watching that and everyone gasped as he did it. Interviewed before, Ian had said he didn't think even Murph would try to bounce it... wrong... ;) ;) (so, Ian didn't ride for the bounce)
I know everyone nowadays thinks that Opposition Buzz is a freak, and he is, he has phenomenal scope etc, but Murphy was like no horse i have ever seen, he made 4* look like Novice, took enormous liberties with total distain.
Toddy and super little Charisma, so clever and tidy, the opposite extreme to Murph in a way but phenomenally successful.

the thing with those above is they don't show the numerous top combinations who had problems, they only show the ones who made it look easy!

there are loads more vids on youtube, i can hunt more out and tell you what i know if you want! i have about 30 old vids of all big events going back for decades, shame we can't all get together for a viewing.

i think the biggest differences on the xc were that direct routes were direct, only long routes were twisty, unlike nowadays. Also, NO SKINNIES!!!!!
back then the average width of a xc fence (across all levels) was 16', now it is 10'. This makes a huge difference, one which i believe impacts enormously on training and safety... but that's another topic.
 
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As a complete novice, the faller at Kentucky seemed to over-ride into the fence, horse tried to put an extra stride in and didn't get his legs out of the way, possibly a little flat on the approach? Also do we still have ski-jump fences?

ETA: I notice a lot more horses were in snaffles, could this be because the other endurance phases took the edge off them but not enough to make them tired?
 
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Sanolly said:
As a complete novice, the faller at Kentucky seemed to over-ride into the fence, horse tried to put an extra stride in and didn't get his legs out of the way, possibly a little flat on the approach? Also do we still have ski-jump fences?
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yes, flat on the approach is exactly right... why? bearing in mind that it was Fence 1 on the xc ;) ;)
umm, they do ski-jumps here and there at championships, there was one that was like the roof of a house at WEG a while back. also a steep one down to water and then through water a few strides curving to the right, to step up and bounce over upright, at WEG the year that Jeanette Brakewell and Over To You won individual silver. that the ski-jump caused no end of probs at the step and bounce (two stops for Team GB members iirc). so difficult because you have no idea how your horse will jump the fence on top - ideally hust pop it, but some balloon it a bit - and land at the bottom (rather like the Hickstead Derby Bank, same problem really), it relies on lightning-fast judgements and reactions from both horse and rider, or very very lucky and athletic muddling through perhaps!

here's another good one, old Badders fences early on, a very young Pippa (wearing yellow)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvJVTHk2m74
there's a ski jump to skinny brush there, taking lots of top scalps...
 
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I would think it stemmed from the steeplechase phase, that either the horse thought he had to jump the fence like a steeplechase fence, or the rider rode it like it was one. I think that had that been a big brush they may well have got away with it?
 
Sanolly said:
I would think it stemmed from the steeplechase phase, that either the horse thought he had to jump the fence like a steeplechase fence, or the rider rode it like it was one. I think that had that been a big brush they may well have got away with it?
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yes, i think so, the rider (and horse maybe) still seeing 'steeplechase strides', not good into an upright post and rail. nasty first fence but that's what was there so it needed riding accordingly...
i had one very cold-blooded little horse get her blood up so much after the 'chase that she took on the first 3 xc fences like a lunatic (for the first time in her life) and I had to have a quick word before we came to the first combination at 4, it was like sitting on a totally different horse suddenly.

ester, that's the thing, some of those fences were really really difficult but they didn't need to have loads of skinnies, twists, turns etc to get riders to vary their pace and to catch people out etc... just because the fences were big and wide and mostly in a straight line did not make them easy, far from it!

Sanolly, you're right, lots of rider-frighteners but if they were designed and built right they were NOT horse frighteners, and they usually jumped really well.
a lot of the horses were more hunter-type, agreed. this was before the rise of the wb in eventing, back then wbs were often considered a bit 'chicken' and not great gallopers.
they didn't look tired because these were the best ones who went on to win, and also because they hadn't been hauled about lots of twisty routes maybe. but they were usually pretty tired. Getting on and sj ing a horse that had done a long-format Saturday was, again, like getting on a totally different horse to normal, i found.
(also, to stop horses stiffening up, sometimes grooms used to walk them all night. literally. this is documented in the memoirs of a former Team GB rider. horse sj'ed catastrophically of course, might have trotted up sound but was too exhausted to jump. now there are strict rules, nobody allowed near the horses overnight unless for emergencies.)
 
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I have only ever seen badminton as it stands now as we never went when we were kids. The older courses certainly seem to flow a lot more, less slowing, setting up, turning then galloping on.

eta no, I guess it was generally ok if you hit the first one in the right place ;)
 
The common denominator seems to be in the ones that did well, an absolute security of seat, yes their upper body and rein sometimes go from the sublime to the ridiculous, but its seriously like they are glued to the saddle! Phenomenal!
 
But that is the same now, was it WFP this year that ending up 'hailing a cab' at the bank where K'OC got caught out? Also I think Toddy's had a minor blip yet he never moved. I wonder if eventers should go hunting in the winter as well as BD and BS?
 
Sanolly, a lot of them do. nothing like it for teaching horses and riders to cope with whatever comes up.
ester, i remember one year a girl had a stop at the very first xc fence (i cannot remember if it was at Badders or Burghley, suspect the former) and then went clear. can you imagine the frustration?! i think the horse was gobsmacked by the crowd and just didn't realise he had to concentrate until it was too late.
 
Re posting this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3496C7WwE

Now it seems to me her stirrup got stuck - otherwise it looks like she'd have been off? I'm suprised no-one came out to help her and also I wonder how she ended up doing after that performance! Great determination, wether that was driven by the fact she knew she was stuck or the desire to carry on I guess only she knows!
 
K just seen your edit, I agree that the horses would have been tired but some of them this year looked exhausted. Perhaps the fittening regime for long format could be adapted and used in short format. Also as Ester says the courses then were a lot more flowing, I remember when I was getting fit for the army the longer runs were easier than the sprint training. The coming back, setting up for fences and then galloping on again have got to be that little bit harder for the horses than a regular gallop with some large but flowing fences in the way.
 
Kitsune said:
Re posting this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3496C7WwE

Now it seems to me her stirrup got stuck - otherwise it looks like she'd have been off? I'm suprised no-one came out to help her and also I wonder how she ended up doing after that performance! Great determination, wether that was driven by the fact she knew she was stuck or the desire to carry on I guess only she knows!
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Again it looks like that is an older video, from what I can see the norm seemed to be "get the rider back on the horse and send them on their way", unless it was obvious that the rider was seriously injured. Either that or it was a similar situation to that rider on the grey recently, Alex something?
 
well, AN, immensely successful at both long and format, was quoted on a thread recently as saying that he does more fitness work for short format than he did for long. the jumping intensity is higher (efforts per distance travelled) and varying pace and incorporating sprints is a lot more tiring.
also... horses have longer careers now, so there is more accumulated wear and tear. fittening is a double-edged sword, there's no point breaking your horse down on his final gallop, then you have nothing at all (U.S. team did this more than once iirc). with older horses still competing, and different ways to keep all horses 'sound' (injections, IRAP, shock wave therapy, that sort of thing) it is a lot more complicated than it was, i think. there were none of those things back then (well, if there were, my vet - one of the best in the country - never told me about them!)
it was unheard of back then to still be eventing an old horse at top level. e.g. Ginny retired hers at the top of their game at about 15 or so iirc, Priceless and Night Cap went hunting with the Pytchley for many years.
 
It's interesting looking at the early footage as a lot of Badders looks quite simply unjumpable to me! Thinking of the bounce into the water, the enormous drop followed by a bounce (truly horrific, you wouldn't want to get your stride wrong!). Fences were much less forgiving - lots of post and rail, comparitively little brush. Whereas now, taking size out of the equation it looks a lot more feasible to me. Whether it's a case of what you get used to I don't know. Does anyone know how the number of clear rounds now compare with the number of clears in the 80s/early 90s? Courses seemed to cause a lot more grief twenty years back and maybe now that has become unacceptable.
 
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